AEW Champion
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If his other business is impacting the Reds, then he needs to sell the team.
It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
The Official 2022 Cincinnati Reds Thread
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wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
Are you his business accountant? Neither am I, so we shouldn't guarantee things we don't know about. I said "if the articles are correct..."
So again, if the articles are accurate, and his net worth is $400M, and the Reds are valued over $1Billion, what does that tell you?
Perhaps the article is saying his net worth is $400M, without factoring in the value of the baseball franchise? If so, then the article is unclear / poorly written, but it might make more sense. Either way, he has the lowest net worth of any primary MLB owner.
Castellini does not own 100% of the Reds.
It is estimated that he owns 15% of the Reds and is the largest owner. That puts his value in the Reds at $150M. That would line up with a $400M net worth.
Not true.
Why sell a profitable business to bailout another business? The mistake made in 2019 has been rectified but it will take time to regain market share as well as customers trust.
AEW Champion
Your wife’s favorite poster
Because it’s not fair to a fanbase to suffer through losing because the owner’s unrelated business venture is in the tank.
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wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
Again, let's not confuse the value of the Reds franchise (or any business) with being "profitable". Totally unrelated things.
Profitable implies that annual revenue is greater than annual expenses, and none of us know that. Books are closed.
Valuation is what a buyer would be expected to pay to purchase the business. Every month there are companies purchased for huge sums of money that are losing money annually.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
did not know he only held 15% - thanks - that makes sense.
I'm aware of the differences between profitable and valuation.
The Reds have been profitable (even with closed books, it's a safe bet) and will continue to be profitable for this ownership group. Bob bought the majority share in 2006 at a market cap valuation of $270M. At 15% that's $40.5M for him.
With normal crowds the Reds should have a revenue around $200-$300M a year. Figure around $80M in operating expenses prior to player salaries.
Make Bob an offer and you can run it any way you see fit.
He doesn't owe fans anything other than what they are willing to pay for.
zeeman
Well-known member
Because you’re not very bright
14Red
Well-known member
I think these recent ramblings indicate that as normal fans, we have no bearing on who owns the team or how the run it. We can only root for the team, if we want to, or not root for the team. Just understand that Bob Castelini and probably a few people below him have nothing to do with the lineup, the rotation and weather to bunt or swing away. It's mind numbing to even discuss ownership in pro sports.
It's not mind numbing. It is very relevant especially in baseball. Ownership sets payroll which has a direct correlation to success on the field.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
Fans who do choose to root for a team have every reason to discuss ownership. Ownership's ability and willingness to spend money greatly affects who is in the lineup - how can you say they do not impact the lineup? Clearly your mind is numb, as you say.
14Red
Well-known member
If you can draw a direct correlation to ownership and winning, I'm all ears. But there's nothing there. Some teams spend the most and win, some spend the same and lose, some spend little and win, etc. Just stop blaming failure on something nebulous. It's up the players that play the game. As simple as that.
World Series Champion Opening Day Payroll Ranks Over The Last 25 Years
Spending money doesn't guarantee a World Series ring, but 24 of the last 25 champions all crossed one particular payroll threshold.
www-baseballamerica-com.cdn.ampproject.org
Are you really this obtuse?
Gh0st
Well-known member
I guess I'll add my two cents. I've been an out-of-town Reds fan for the past 8 years. I grew up watching the Reds and I've just stuck with them for almost 4 decades. Currently I don't live in a place where I can readily go to Major League games on a nightly basis like I could in Cincinnati. With how easy streaming is nowadays, anyone could follow any team they want. The way the spending is going this season, which looks to be big overall salary cuts and, cheap, for lack of a better term, it's worn on me since I left town and I'm on the fence about abandoning the Reds altogether. The only thing keeping me is that I've been a fan for so long, but as an out-of-towner, it's hard to support a franchise that can't put money down on winning. We all know the Reds have extended this rebuild longer than it needed to be, it seems we're headed for another one and one that will push our star players out of their affordable window. The Reds will keep the local fans, but very difficult to support them from afar.
14Red
Well-known member
World Series Champion Opening Day Payroll Ranks Over The Last 25 Years
Spending money doesn't guarantee a World Series ring, but 24 of the last 25 champions all crossed one particular payroll threshold.
Are you really this obtuse?
14Red
Well-known member
I'm not sure how out of town you are, but I'd consider myself in the same boat. However, I've been to more Reds games the last 5 years than I have in my life. There are reasons for that the may not fit with the the winning part. One is we now have more time to go, another is the byproduct of the Reds rebuilding is that tickets were dirt cheap, relatively speaking. You can sit pretty close for not much money. The Reds will never see the days of the 70's when the stadium was packed, those days are gone. Baseball doesn't move the needle, people have dozens of other ways to spend money and frankly the younger generation doesn't grasp baseball like generations past.
But I'm a fan. I'll always be a fan and me being there in person doesn't make me more or less of a fan. I've been to enough games were you can just look at other and know they don't know Jonathan India from Indiana Jones. They're just there because the kids want to have a ballpark experience, they got the corporate seats or it's place to go hangout for few innings.
But know this, if the and when the Reds win, people will go. People love winners.
I've never supported a team or not supported a team because they won't go out and buy a championship. That's not my decision. I support the players that are on the field and are on the roster. It's so easy to look around and see what else you could have, but it's not that easy. The Reds, in the last two years have spent big money on Shogo Akyama and Mike Moustakas. We couldn't give them away now. Frankly, we'd be way better off without either of them. But here is a situation where the front office went out and spent - some love this - and it does not work out. The Reds organization has to trust their people that draft and develop, that's the way to win in baseball.
14Red
Well-known member
That averages to 7.2, So on average 6 teams spend alot of money and don't win a title. It's not a given, which is my point.
World Series Champion Opening Day Payroll Ranks Over The Last 25 Years
Spending money doesn't guarantee a World Series ring, but 24 of the last 25 champions all crossed one particular payroll threshold.
Are you really this obtuse?
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
Somebody is getting way ahead of themselves.
The first question is will the owners and players association talk again this month? Assuming they do talk at some point, and they reach an agreement someday, then there needs to be time for all the contracts, free agency, arbitration hearings, etc.
So the real questions are "who will be on the Reds?" and "when is Opening Day?", not who is in the lineup. But hey, you keep hope alive...
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
So illogical. Of course nothing is a given, only one team wins the title every year.
The article shows that only once in the last 25 years has a team been in the bottom half of the MLB in payroll and won the title. Pretty simple. I would pay money to listen to you explain how you arrived at a meaningful average of 7.2. It would go like this.
#math_skills
14Red
Well-known member
All of these can be done pretty quickly. There is no need for a 6 week spring training anymore. I'd say about half that is sufficient. Pitchers probably need a little more time, then again most guys only throw 80 pitches and 5 innings the first month and I'm sure they are already working out on their own. I'd say if you don't hear much by early March, then get concerned.
14Red
Well-known member
And that's at the start of the season so the trend now is to all bodies for the stretch run if you feel like you have a shot.
Basically you take the 25 years, add up the place the winner was in each year - add those up and divide by 25, pretty simple. Only 10 times in the 25 years did the WS winner have a payroll in the top 3.
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wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
The average rank is meaningless, but 7th is pretty high, so it doesn't help your argument. Basically the story says if you want to win the WS, you better have an above average payroll, because 96% of the time thats who wins. And yet you say there is no relation between payroll spend and winning. Sigh.
Omar
Well-known member
Being rational, it’s probably the smart thing to do. The Reds did get one of the top prospects in the Twins organization. However, he’s only 18 yrs old and won’t sniff the League for at least 3-4 years, maybe longer. It’s hard to accept as fans, but this team is going to be bad for the next few years. Rebuilding in Baseball as a small mkt team is brutal.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
Yep. A timeline:
- Thursday: Baseball is back! Yay!
- Friday: Reds are not talking to Castellanos. Disappointing but expected.
- Saturday & Sunday: Reds trade Sonny for a prospect and are discussing Mahle in trades. WTF?!?
- Monday: No point in renewing my extra Spectrum streaming TV that I only use for Blue Jackets hockey and Reds baseball.
The ill-advised big money given to Moustakas and Akiyama has slammed the window on this team shut. A couple of rough summers ahead. Votto deserves better...
- Thursday: Baseball is back! Yay!
- Friday: Reds are not talking to Castellanos. Disappointing but expected.
- Saturday & Sunday: Reds trade Sonny for a prospect and are discussing Mahle in trades. WTF?!?
- Monday: No point in renewing my extra Spectrum streaming TV that I only use for Blue Jackets hockey and Reds baseball.
The ill-advised big money given to Moustakas and Akiyama has slammed the window on this team shut. A couple of rough summers ahead. Votto deserves better...