I would agree with this if I had confidence that ownership would build a war chest for future payroll.
Likely this owner will use profits from baseball to cover his business losses in other areas.
The Official 2022 Cincinnati Reds Thread
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Likely this owner will use profits from baseball to cover his business losses in other areas.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
100% - Bob is hurting from his other businesses and the Reds are going to pay for it. Just sell the team Bob - major cash infusion.
As for the trades, Krall is getting far below market value in the Seattle deal, just an abomination of an ownership / management group. Fire them all. With the new Ohio concealed carry law, they all better watch their backs.
Not sure if you saw the Winker and Suarez interviews. Those guys were genuinely sad to be leaving. Love how Winker slipped in "I'm excited that Seattle is trying to win" in his interview twice. A definite shot at the Reds, who clearly are not trying to win.
I feel terrible for Votto, going to wind up his career trying to stay above the Pirates and out of last place.
Have to believe they are working like crazy to get Moustakas and/or Akiyama off the books. Castillo and Mahle will probably be the bait to get teams to take Moose and Shogo contracts.
The Central was there for the taking, Pirates and Cubs will be awful. Brewers and Cards are pretty good but not unbeatable. But instead the Reds send away Castellanos, Barnhart, Lorenzen, Gray, Suarez, Winker. F--- the owners and managers. Plenty of other things to do this summer.
Omar
Well-known member
I think with a normal season, that ‘20 team wins the Division.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
The current estimated value of the franchise is nearly $1.1 billion. The Castellini ownership group bought the franchise for $270 million. A lot of Bob's money problems would be fixed by trying to sell the team. He'd make a windfall profit that would be far beyond the value of squeezing profit out of a failing nickel and dime baseball team.
boothmark77
Well-known member
So has Castellini become worse than Linder as owner?
14Red
Well-known member
I think Nick Krall jumped out of his chair when he found someone willing to take Suarez's contract. Getting anything in return was meaningless. Had to throw in Winker to sweeten the pot. Wink's a nice player, but he's not going to be the difference in us winning or losing.
I'll say this, the Reds have and have had top notch people in the organization. Tucker Barnhart, Sonny Gray, Suarez, Winker all class individuals and I don't recall any of them saying anything against the team. That's not always the case.
But as we should all know now, especially since the recent lockout, it's business. One of the things that I feel frustrates fans is our definition of success and the players definition of success are different. The day these guys sign their first contracts and get paid american dollars to play a game, they are a success. And when they are arbitration eligible and become millionaires, sometimes many times over, that's success. For fans, we only view winning ballgames and championships as success. The players have fought for decades for all the things they get in their collective bargaining agreement. The one thing they can't control is player movement. No one ever seems upset when players demand trades or forces themselves out of a team. But when a team sends a player away people are bent?? Can't have it both way folks.
Joey Votto has a no-trade clause and if he ever wanted to get moved, I'd guess the Reds would do everything in their power to make that happen. Moustakas and Akyiama have underperformed so badly they are untradeable.
The Reds HAD Castetellenos, Barnhart, Lorenzen, Gray, Winker, won 83 games and missed the playoffs last year. I think they were alot further away than most people realize.
zeeman
Well-known member
Suarez is the poster boy for a bad signing of a long term contract. He was awesome until he signed and then dropped like rock. Not the Reds fault
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
If you think Nick Krall was excited to part with Winker and Suarez for basically nothing, you can guess again. GM's want to win.
This is 100% an ownership decision, to dump salary. I'm sure Krall was ordered to get rid of the Suarez contract to save money. He then got strong-armed by Seattle into including Winker in the deal, and he had to do it because his boss said so, and he is a weak GM.
I'm sure Crapellini also has told Krall to get rid of Moose and Akiyama salaries, but that will be even harder than Suarez. Don't be shocked if guys like Castillo, Mahle, or even India/Stephenson get packaged with Moose or Akiyama in order to dump the useless salaries.
14Red
Well-known member
And this is the armchair QB part of pro sports. We only look at things in the rearview mirror. Suarez signed his current 7 year contract before the 2018 season. At that time he'd been a rising star, hit 34 homers, .283 in '18, then the big 49 homer, .271 season in '19 and suddenly the contract looked outstanding. Geno also had a shoulder injury and he's really not been the same. Geno also always had a long swing, not conducive to consistent hitting.
14Red
Well-known member
I believe months ago, it was said that nearly everyone was on the table. Votto has a no-trade, and Stephenson and India are part of the future. Greene and Lodolo are untouchable. Other than that, you need to listen to offers for anyone else. Moustakas and Akiyama have performed so badly that they are untradeable. Krall is charged with running the team per orders from the boss, so you can say he wants to win, or you can say he wants to keep his job. As I said before, we were not winning enough with last year's team either.
It only matters if they are reinvesting in talent. They cleay are not.
14Red
Well-known member
They made trades two days ago and yesterday.
14Red
Well-known member
We'll need some humor to get through this season, but I'll be there, rooting every day. Why...
- I'll continue to follow the tremendous career of Joey Votto.
- Let's hope Jonathan India continue and becomes a star
- Nick Senzel, can he finally become what a first round pick should be?
- Beyond excited to see Hunter Greene and Nick Lodolo at the big league level.
Lol
Lol
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
What sort of genius thinks that the Reds are signing expensive FA pitchers?
14Red
Well-known member
This is the Bobby Bonilla situation, it's a nice talking point but really has no relevance in today's team. It's deferred money, it was an agreement that Griffey and the team came to when he was done. My guess is it may work out as well for the team as it does for Griffey. He's not getting any more money from his regular contract with the Reds, money is simply deferred. It's a win win for both sides.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
I don't get on here to talk about the Reds much, but I'm terrified by the bolded based upon the trade with the Mariners. Since the primary purpose of these moves to this point has appeared to solely be to cut salary as opposed to truly rebuilding/retooling, I would probably expect 1-2 more solid/quality players on reasonable deals to go to help facilitate dumping useless salaries.
14Red
Well-known member
I don't think you have to worry too much. India and Stephenson make major league minimum ($700,000), and they are expected to have good futures in Cincinnati. Castillo, $7.5 mill, Mahle, $5.5 mill are very reasonably paid for starting pitchers. Akiyama and Moose are not tradeable because of their performance. Akiyama is only on the hook this year and then he's done. I could see the Reds keeping him around a few months, then if he's struggling, just eating his contract. Moose is the bigger issue, he's around for another 2 years after this. We can only hope and pray that Moustakas gets off to a great start and is attractive enough for a contender to add at the trade deadline.
I think our roster is going to be pretty well set now.
Orin Swift
Well-known member
Zach Cozart on his Instagram story essentially saying he feels bad for Reds fans and ownership only cares about money, not putting a quality product on the field.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
3.6M dollars is irrelevant? I'm sure Crapellini would beg to differ. It comes out of the team's pocket and counts as part of the annual team salary.
It's win-lose (win for Griffey and lose for the Reds).
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
You are missing the point that I made earlier (twice) and also Indiandad and nwwarrior09 made similar points.
I'm sure the Reds wanted to keep Winker - he also had a reasonable (low) salary for his production. The Mariners smartly said, "sure, we'll take Suarez contract off of your hands, but you need to throw in Winker also".
As the Reds try to trade Moustakas or Shogo to dump those salaries, the other teams will likely say "Sure, we'll take the Moose contract if you throw in Mahle (or Castillo / India / etc.)". So guys the Reds very much want to keep may be traded just to dump undesired salaries.