The Official 2023 Cincinnati Reds Thread

[Indiandad]

Cincinnati Reds suffer worst loss of the year after historic bullpen meltdown

The Reds allowed 13 straight runs as the Pirates won the second game of the series.

www.cincinnati.com

The Enquirer’s Charlie Goldsmith with a surprising (for him, since he’s usually positive to a fault) but solid takedown of the Reds’ half-baked, cheap 2023 pitching plans.

The fact that he got multiple relievers on the record more or less acknowledging the bullpen’s rampant overuse tells me there’s probably a lot more frustration at Bell and the front office from that group than will ever be known publicly.

The Bullpen guys are good pitchers. Their stats back that up. You just can't keep getting 4-5 innings a njght from the starter and expect your relievers to hold up all season.

The srarting pitching is young and shows flashes of high level pitching but they have to get more efficient. If the front office doesn’t think they can make that jump next season then they need to bring in a legit couple of starters that can go 7 on a regular basis.

 

[RazorRamon]

Friedl is a beast!

 

[Irwin20]

So what do the Reds need to happen to get that 3rd WC spot.? I guess winning out would be a start.

If the Reds win out 5-0 that’s gives them 85 wins, the best they can do.

- Cubs would have to go 5-2 for 86 wins
- Arizona 5-3 for 86 wins
- Miami 5-1 for 86 wins

So win out and hope for a miracle.

 

[brianwr112]

Nice to see Joey Votto end his Cincy career like that if this is the end.

 

[Sig Hansen]

No, not even close. Nothing compares to that game or series.

It's the worst loss since then. Not worse than.

 

[14Red]

Maybe this last stretch will help management realize the bullpen isn’t set

I'm not sure you ever feel the bullpen is set. After yesterday's blow up, bullpen is nails today? Less than 24 hours later. We all knew the bullpen was supposed to be an issue this season, and it was one of the biggest strengths of the team.

My guess is you'll see most of this cast of characters back next season. I think the biggest thing we can do to help the bullpen is stretch out our starters. While it's nice to have a deep bullpen, we simply can't have starters going only 5 innings next year. Brandon Williamson and Andrew Abbott was bullpen killers the last 6 weeks of the season. I'll also ask David Bell to maybe hang with the guys a little longer. He's way to protective of the starters. Also, when a bullpen guy is going good, keep him out there for another out, and another. I'd rather have relief pitchers go 2-3 innings and not be available the next day than to just keep running guys out there for only 3 outs.

 

[Spartacus1987]

It's the worst loss since then. Not worse than.

No. 2020 13 inning playoff game against the Braves was much worse than this.

 

[14Red]

Nice to see Joey Votto end his Cincy career like that if this is the end.

We never know what Joey is truly thinking, he certainly left the door open today with his comments after the game. It seems like the team anticipates he's done, or at least the broadcast, but then again, it's the story and they'll never pass up a good story. I do really hope they can come up with some kind of restructured deal to keep him on the team next season.

 

[troyboy73]

We never know what Joey is truly thinking, he certainly left the door open today with his comments after the game. It seems like the team anticipates he's done, or at least the broadcast, but then again, it's the story and they'll never pass up a good story. I do really hope they can come up with some kind of restructured deal to keep him on the team next season.

Barely a .200 average. Keep him!!!

 

[D4fan]

We never know what Joey is truly thinking, he certainly left the door open today with his comments after the game. It seems like the team anticipates he's done, or at least the broadcast, but then again, it's the story and they'll never pass up a good story. I do really hope they can come up with some kind of restructured deal to keep him on the team next season.

My suspicion is they will restructure a deal. They owe him 7 million as a buyout. So what is he worth to you 2-3 million? Add that to the 7 you owe him and offer 9-10 million for next year and that seems to me to be a good deal for everyone.

 

[14Red]

My suspicion is they will restructure a deal. They owe him 7 million as a buyout. So what is he worth to you 2-3 million? Add that to the 7 you owe him and offer 9-10 million for next year and that seems to me to be a good deal for everyone.

I would love to see that happen. I just wonder what post baseball looks like for Joey. He seems to have a knack for talking to the young guys so do you bring him on as a Larkin/ Eric Davis like "consultant"? I can't imagine he'd want to do the day to day grind of coaching / managing and he may not even be good at it. Could he do media? Or he may just be ready to settle down and become a family man. He's a man of mystery and we really don't know what he may do. But I would love to see him with the team in '24.

 

[14Red]

Barely a .200 average. Keep him!!!

You must not be an alalytics guy, most don't even worry about batting average anymore.

 

[Gh0st]

The Reds can still make the playoffs, although very unlikely at this point. The blame has to go on the front office. You had a team that, while not expected to win, was. Absolutely no help brought in July and areas that were weaknesses were magnified by injuries and offense cooled off. They spent all of July telling us how not winning now was important and to win in the future. The off-season is where they need to put the money where their mouths are.

 

[wolves82]

The Bullpen guys are good pitchers. Their stats back that up. You just can't keep getting 4-5 innings a njght from the starter and expect your relievers to hold up all season.

The srarting pitching is young and shows flashes of high level pitching but they have to get more efficient. If the front office doesn’t think they can make that jump next season then they need to bring in a legit couple of starters that can go 7 on a regular basis.

Totally agree on needing more innings from the starters.

I would say this to "bullpen guys are good pitchers"... Yes, many of them have decent numbers for the season. We got way better performance than expected. That is because nearly every one of them had their career best years. I'm not sure we can expect that again in 2024. Some upgrades needed.

 

[wolves82]

Hopefully Reds can sweep the Guardians 2 games, win the highly coveted Ohio Cup, and get some help. Then we could stay tuned in over the weekend.

Greene vs. Gioloto
Abbott vs. Bieber

 

[RazorRamon]

The Reds can still make the playoffs, although very unlikely at this point. The blame has to go on the front office. You had a team that, while not expected to win, was. Absolutely no help brought in July and areas that were weaknesses were magnified by injuries and offense cooled off. They spent all of July telling us how not winning now was important to win in the future. The off-season is where they need to put the money where their mouths are.

Have you researched the trades that were made at the deadline? The pitchers involved in these trades didn’t exactly set the world on fire. Maybe teams were asking too much, who would you be willing to give up? It’s easy for us to second guess. You’re right about the off season, this will be the time to strengthen the pitching staff and bench for a right handed OF and a good defensive catcher

 

[RazorRamon]

Very good interview with Votto after the game! He is a class act and true Red and I do hope he is back next year in some capacity

 

[JUSTGOPLAY]

Very good interview with Votto after the game! He is a class act and true Red and I do hope he is back next year in some capacity

Joey's skills have diminished....he's forty years old, unless you take a deep dive into PED's your reflexes, hand-eye, etc.....are going to diminish. Votto is beyond a class act, I truly hope that this is his swan song and he can be remembered for the hitter that he was.....Yesterday worked out pretty well, don't screw up your legacy by trying to hang on too long. It was just sad to watch 42 year old Willie Mays, who many consider the greatest all around player of all time, stumble around out there cause he couldn't give it up......

 

[RazorRamon]

Joey's skills have diminished....he's forty years old, unless you take a deep dive into PED's your reflexes, hand-eye, etc.....are going to diminish. Votto is beyond a class act, I truly hope that this is his swan song and he can be remembered for the hitter that he was.....Yesterday worked out pretty well, don't screw up your legacy by trying to hang on too long. It was just sad to watch 42 year old Willie Mays, who many consider the greatest all around player of all time, stumble around out there cause he couldn't give it up......

All true, but he could be a PH/DH for a year and the young players seem to revere him. For the right money he would be a good addition IMO. If this was his last game in Cincy he went out the right way, singling in his last at bat

 

[JUSTGOPLAY]

So what do the Reds need to happen to get that 3rd WC spot.? I guess winning out would be a start.

If the Reds win out 5-0 that’s gives them 85 wins, the best they can do.

- Cubs would have to go 5-2 for 86 wins
- Arizona 5-3 for 86 wins
- Miami 5-1 for 86 wins

So win out and hope for a miracle.

After the disaster that took place Saturday night our boys are certainly in a tough spot.....That being said, the Chubs are fixin' to get a heapin' helpin of the Braves who are probably gonna' be interested in winning again after taking a little time off after they clinched. Then the Chubbies finish up with three in Milwaukee who just might like the idea of doing serious damage to Chicago. All this is moot of course if the Redlegs don't win games themselves, but it beats the hell out of being eliminated like so many other teams are heading into the final week of the season.

 

[14Red]

The Reds can still make the playoffs, although very unlikely at this point. The blame has to go on the front office. You had a team that, while not expected to win, was. Absolutely no help brought in July and areas that were weaknesses were magnified by injuries and offense cooled off. They spent all of July telling us how not winning now was important to win in the future. The off-season is where they need to put the money where their mouths are.

If this is your mindset, prepare to be disappointed. I don't see this front office making many significant changes in the off season. The semi-regular lineup looks pretty set to me.

1b - CES
2b - McLain
SS - Elly
3B - Marte
CF - Friedl
C - Stephenson
LF - Steer

My guess is you bring Benson back next season and play him in right most of the time or platoon. I think Senzel and India are gone.
I'd try to bring Maile back to catch, or possibly go and get a starting catcher. Like Stephenson, but his defense is getting worse and he doesn't hit enough to justify being a starting catcher.

Starting pitching - Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft, Williamson and Abbott all have spots for me. Phillips waiting in the wings.

Bullpen- take your pick, alot probably is going to be determined by their contract status.

I'm fine rolling into 24 with this group.

 

[14Red]

It was so cool seeing Votto's last at bat yesterday and the admiration and outpouring of appreciation from those on hand. I too hope this wasn't it for him, but what a class act. In today's baseball economics, we may never see another Red like Votto ever again. The postgame interview with Jim Day was just awesome! The shot in the dugout and the looks on the faces of his teammates and coaches. You rarely see guys in that way. The players hold him in such high regard, and they see him everyday! Even David Bell looks awestruck by the moment. Kuddos to the fans in attendance yesterday for making that moment so special. And his first at bat...can you imagine trying to focus and hit a ball after that??

We'll have more time later to chat about Votto's impact on the Reds, but yesterday was a very special day.

 

[wolves82]

If this is your mindset, prepare to be disappointed. I don't see this front office making many significant changes in the off season. The semi-regular lineup looks pretty set to me.

1b - CES
2b - McLain
SS - Elly
3B - Marte
CF - Friedl
C - Stephenson
LF - Steer

My guess is you bring Benson back next season and play him in right most of the time or platoon. I think Senzel and India are gone.
I'd try to bring Maile back to catch, or possibly go and get a starting catcher. Like Stephenson, but his defense is getting worse and he doesn't hit enough to justify being a starting catcher.

Starting pitching - Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft, Williamson and Abbott all have spots for me. Phillips waiting in the wings.

Bullpen- take your pick, alot probably is going to be determined by their contract status.

I'm fine rolling into 24 with this group.

I thought you wanted to trade Greene and Elly for Pete Alonso?

 

[14Red]

I thought you wanted to trade Greene and Elly for Pete Alonso?

Do you think the Mets would bite? If the Mets were interested, I'd listen. I still feel all this lineup needs is a big bopper in the middle. I think CES could be that guy, but maybe not just yet. Imagine those two in the 3-4 or 4-5 holes.

 

[wolves82]

Do you think the Mets would bite? If the Mets were interested, I'd listen. I still feel all this lineup needs is a big bopper in the middle. I think CES could be that guy, but maybe not just yet. Imagine those two in the 3-4 or 4-5 holes.

I was just kidding. I would never offer that trade, as we discussed before.

 

[RazorRamon]

I thought you wanted to trade Greene and Elly for Pete Alonso?

Greene is definitely off limits. Elly is interesting though. At some point Arroyo will be ready and force some move to be made. Elly could be the next Eric Davis or the next Billy Hamilton. Nobody knows yet and obviously he isn’t going anywhere in the next couple years but it will be interesting to see what he turns into. IMHO Marte is going to win the starting SS job and him and McClain are going to be stars IMO. So does Elly play 3B or does he go to CF where I think his skill level would translate and be very exciting. Then if Arroyo pans out he can play third. It sure is fun having all of these options

 

[14Red]

I was just kidding. I would never offer that trade, as we discussed before.

 

[14Red]

Greene is definitely off limits. Elly is interesting though. At some point Arroyo will be ready and force some move to be made. Elly could be the next Eric Davis or the next Billy Hamilton. Nobody knows yet and obviously he isn’t going anywhere in the next couple years but it will be interesting to see what he turns into. IMHO Marte is going to win the starting SS job and him and McClain are going to be stars IMO. So does Elly play 3B or does he go to CF where I think his skill level would translate and be very exciting. Then if Arroyo pans out he can play third. It sure is fun having all of these options

Certainly the word is out on Elly. He's going to have to make the next adjustment to prove he belongs in the majors long term.

 

[vamp2syd]

Barely a .200 average. Keep him!!!

and pay him the 20 mill to go with it.

Reds failures = Votto contract......

back to the 9-0 game..... they needed to pinch hit for Cruz in the bottom of the 9th. If there were 2 outs then no, but with one out and all you need is contact to tie the game then get someone in there that won't "k".....

 

[RazorRamon]

and pay him the 20 mill to go with it.

Reds failures = Votto contract......

back to the 9-0 game..... they needed to pinch hit for Cruz in the bottom of the 9th. If there were 2 outs then no, but with one out and all you need is contact to tie the game then get someone in there that won't "k".....

You mean Dela Cruz? I thought you were having Houston Astros flashbacks