The Official 2023 Cincinnati Reds Thread

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Well, there’s nowhere to go but up … probably?

Nick Krall has already said to expect the team that starts out in 2023 to look much the same as the one that just finished 2022, which tells me there probably won’t be much patchwork free agent help arriving to prop up the team’s short-term prospects.

Really, the only players to feel solid about right now are Stephenson, India, Lodolo, Greene and Diaz. Everyone else is a question mark to varying degrees, in prove-it mode (Ashcraft, Senzel, Barrero, etc.), replaceable, or a prospect that needs significant time. Include guys like Votto, Antone and Sims in the question mark category because who knows what they’ll look like after their various injuries.

Let’s see if they can at least avoid the cellar in 2023.

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https://www.redlegnation.com/2022/10/07/are-cincinnati-reds-already-giving-up-on-competing-in-2023/

Good read on Nick Krall’s recent statements above.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Yes, kind of disingenuous to say "Our expectation is to make the playoffs and win the World Series" but then also more or less to commit to developing the young players. Both statements cannot be true, unless your plan is "we hope all the young guys are so great we make the playoffs".

Hoping is not a strategy. Just be honest with the fans.
 
I have no idea, but they have more to spend. At the end of the day, we have no say in what the Reds pay for players, so you can't either root for them, or go find a team that you like better who has an infinite amount of money. I still contend that just spending money doens't guarantee success.
I'm going to post this again, on both Reds threads, to force you to look at it. You cannot ignore facts.
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You really don't get it, no matter how many times we say it. Of course spending does not guarantee winning - we all get that. The teams you listed have made poor spending decisions and/or had some bad luck with injuries.

But NOT spending almost guarantees NOT winning. There are occasional exceptions, like Cleveland this year, Tampa a couple times. But in general (24 of 25 years), the champion has a top 12 payroll.

To win:
- step 1 is to have ownership willing to spend.
- Step 2, have a sharp GM and scouting organization to spend it wisely.
- Step 3, have a manager and coaches to develop players and make good decisions.
- Step 4, avoid a rash of injuries

Without step 1, everything else becomes much harder. In the Reds case. they fail step 2 as well. With Bell calling the shots, step 3 is a fail also. So a losing season was always a guarantee. Mix in the injuries, and you get 100 losses.
 
Are they a smart team, or a lucky team? I think all teams feel like their drafting and developing properly. The Reds do not have the runway that many of these other franchises have. The Yankees have guys they just leave off the postseason roster because they have other guys that can do the job. The Reds can afford to "miss". And before you say "sell the team" that's not you, or I or any other fans decision. The Castellini's own the team, they are not required to sell it. It's gained value since they bought it. So it's pointless beating that horse over and over.
Thank you for clearing up that it is not my decision to have Bob sell the team. I was was about to sell it. You are brilliant.

If the ownership cannot afford to compete with the other teams, they are doing a huge disservice to the MLB and the fans of the Reds. They should sell. Take their billion dollars and run.

Every agrees with this except you. You are seemingly OK with low standards and lousy quality. If people keep yelling "Sell the team Bob" maybe he will.

If I owned a hotel, restaurant, or parking lot downtown, I would be yelling it loudly every day. If I was on Cincy City Council or chamber of commerce, I would be pressuring him to sell. His money-grubbing is killing summer business down town.
 
Here’s 14Red’s post from the other thread about the 2023 roster:

At a glance as the Reds head into the offseason - with an eye on spring training 2023

Starting pitching - Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft, Cessa?, Dunn?, Anderson? the 3 kids are locks, #'s 4 &5 starting spots look to be between Anderson, Cessa and Justin Dunn. The Reds could go get a FA vet. No way Mike Minor returns.

Bullpen- There are literally 20 names that could go here. guys that didn't pitch in 2022 or very little that will return is Antone, Sims, Gutierrez, Santillan. At this point bullpen locks would be Diaz, Sanmartin. This is the area we need to focus the most on improving.

Infield - at this point, Votto, Moustakas, India, Barrero, Steer, Farmer, Lopez. Votto, Moustkas, India, Farmer are locks. Honestly, I've seen enough of Jose Barrero to move on from him. He's simply not capable of hitting major league pitching.

Outfield - Senzel, Fraley, Friedl, Steer, Fairchild. - I like Fraley the best out of this bunch, I feel the Reds should go get a legit outfield bat and put them in the middle of the lineup.
 
Thank you for clearing up that it is not my decision to have Bob sell the team. I was was about to sell it. You are brilliant.

If the ownership cannot afford to compete with the other teams, they are doing a huge disservice to the MLB and the fans of the Reds. They should sell. Take their billion dollars and run.

Every agrees with this except you. You are seemingly OK with low standards and lousy quality. If people keep yelling "Sell the team Bob" maybe he will.

If I owned a hotel, restaurant, or parking lot downtown, I would be yelling it loudly every day. If I was on Cincy City Council or chamber of commerce, I would be pressuring him to sell. His money-grubbing is killing summer business down town.
Look, I'm just trying to simplify you and many others lives. You guys are so bent on making a person sell a business and you have ZERO control over that. The Castellini's have a very good investment in a pro sports team and my guess is they are not even looking to sell.
I'm not ok with low standards and lousy baseball. I'm on here almost daily during the season bemoaning our shortfalls. But you know what, at the end of the day, the players win and lose games. You can't convince me that the Cleveland Guardians lineup - outside of Jose Ramirez is that much better than ours. They have good starting rotation and a phenomenal bullpen. Oh, and also their manager tries to win games every day.
In 2021, the Reds were 16th in payroll according to Spotrac- just above league average. So it may not be that they can't afford the team, they are just putting the team together differently.
 
Look, I'm just trying to simplify you and many others lives. You guys are so bent on making a person sell a business and you have ZERO control over that. The Castellini's have a very good investment in a pro sports team and my guess is they are not even looking to sell.
I'm not ok with low standards and lousy baseball. I'm on here almost daily during the season bemoaning our shortfalls. But you know what, at the end of the day, the players win and lose games. You can't convince me that the Cleveland Guardians lineup - outside of Jose Ramirez is that much better than ours. They have good starting rotation and a phenomenal bullpen. Oh, and also their manager tries to win games every day.
In 2021, the Reds were 16th in payroll according to Spotrac- just above league average. So it may not be that they can't afford the team, they are just putting the team together differently.
Yes, the Reds are putting their team together differently. They are using terrible decisions by a GM (Moustakas, Akiyama, Minor, etc.) and a below average manager.

So your answer is "just accept your fate - the Reds will be a low salary cellar dweller". That has never been my mindset. If I can make something better, I will try.

I realize I am one of the few Columbus people on here, but read sometime about the "Save the Crew" movement. Here is the short story - notice how closely it parallels the Reds:
- Columbus Crew (MLS Soccer) was an original MLS team in 1996. (Like the Reds, an original franchise)
- In 2013 the Crew had a new owner who bought the team from Lamar Hunt's family. (Like Castellini, a newer owner)
- The new Crew owner was a cheap SOB who refused to put a dime into stadium renovations, and kept his payroll down. Team started to suffer, and so did attendance. (sounds familiar?)
- In 2017 it was learned that the owner was working back channels and planning to move the team to Austin Texas.

The town went nuts, especially the devoted fans. A few guys started the Save the Crew movement. City Hall marches, petitioning the Mayor and City Council, all sorts of media pressure. My oldest son participated in some of this. And they did it! A new ownership group came together, headed by the Haslams and a local doctor, and they bought the team, financed a great new stadium downtown, spent on couple of players from overseas, and won the MLS Cup the next year.

Passionate fans can make a change. I hope that some Cincy people get off their butts and make something happen too.

Here is the story, if anyone cares. There is also a documentary film.
 
Yes, the Reds are putting their team together differently. They are using terrible decisions by a GM (Moustakas, Akiyama, Minor, etc.) and a below average manager.

So your answer is "just accept your fate - the Reds will be a low salary cellar dweller". That has never been my mindset. If I can make something better, I will try.

I realize I am one of the few Columbus people on here, but read sometime about the "Save the Crew" movement. Here is the short story - notice how closely it parallels the Reds:
- Columbus Crew (MLS Soccer) was an original MLS team in 1996. (Like the Reds, an original franchise)
- In 2013 the Crew had a new owner who bought the team from Lamar Hunt's family. (Like Castellini, a newer owner)
- The new Crew owner was a cheap SOB who refused to put a dime into stadium renovations, and kept his payroll down. Team started to suffer, and so did attendance. (sounds familiar?)
- In 2017 it was learned that the owner was working back channels and planning to move the team to Austin Texas.

The town went nuts, especially the devoted fans. A few guys started the Save the Crew movement. City Hall marches, petitioning the Mayor and City Council, all sorts of media pressure. My oldest son participated in some of this. And they did it! A new ownership group came together, headed by the Haslams and a local doctor, and they bought the team, financed a great new stadium downtown, spent on couple of players from overseas, and won the MLS Cup the next year.

Passionate fans can make a change. I hope that some Cincy people get off their butts and make something happen too.

Here is the story, if anyone cares. There is also a documentary film.
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣🤣
Comparing an upstart American soccer club to a history baseball franchise....
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I'm in my mid 50's, when I was growing up in the 70's and 80's they said soccer would soon take over the sports world...we're still waiting...50 years later. Pele was more popular then, than any soccer player is now.
 
Columbus Crew are worth around $550M. Maybe not a MLB team but comparable. MLS is a growing league where MLB is dying.
 
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣🤣
Comparing an upstart American soccer club to a history baseball franchise....
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I'm in my mid 50's, when I was growing up in the 70's and 80's they said soccer would soon take over the sports world...we're still waiting...50 years later. Pele was more popular then, than any soccer player is now.
You cannot be this dense, can you? You completely missed the point. As usual.

I was not comparing soccer to baseball. The point is that if enough people care badly enough, they can affect major change.
 
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You cannot be this dense, can you? You completely missed the point. As usual.

I was not comparing soccer to baseball. The point is that if enough people care badly enough, they can affect major change.
And my comparison is the difference in making a change for a club like the Crew vs. the Reds is like changing a small - one light town vs. changing a major metropolitan city.
Even today, with the current state of affairs with the two Cincy pro sports teams, if you had to choose only one to stay and one to go, the Reds would overwhelmingly be the choice over the Bengals.
 
And my comparison is the difference in making a change for a club like the Crew vs. the Reds is like changing a small - one light town vs. changing a major metropolitan city.
Sorry to cloud your thoughts with facts, but...

Columbus is 3X bigger than Cincinnati ( https://www.ohio-demographics.com/cities_by_population ). And it is growing, the northern suburbs of Columbus (Delaware County) is in the top 5 fastest growing counties in the US. The eastern suburbs are going to get a huge growth spurt from the new Intel plants by 2025. So careful with analogies that you do not understand.

The Crew's franchise value is now almost 600M$, more than half of the Reds value. And it is growing faster.

The Crew's average home attendance 19,200 vs. Reds 17,400 average. Again, be careful with comparisons when you do not know facts.
 
You cannot be this dense, can you? You completely missed the point. As usual.

I was not comparing soccer to baseball. The point is that if enough people care badly enough, they can affect major change.
14Reds daily mantra: how can I make myself looker dumber than yesterday?
 
Of the top 10 payrolls in 2022, nine made the playoffs (my underachieving, poorly constructed White Sox are the sole omission) and three have made the LCS with the Yankees/Guardians series pending.

Food for thought. Numbers attached.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

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Of the top 10 payrolls in 2022, nine made the playoffs (my underachieving, poorly constructed White Sox are the sole omission) and three have made the LCS with the Yankees/Guardians series pending.

Food for thought. Numbers attached.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Are you sure? 14Red says that spending does not equate to success. Now I'm not sure what to believe. ;)
 
This team will lose fans in the next 2-3 years. Revenue will catch up to the product on the field and the losing attitude of ownership. The threat to move the team to another city was next level stupid.
 
This team will lose fans in the next 2-3 years. Revenue will catch up to the product on the field and the losing attitude of ownership. The threat to move the team to another city was next level stupid.
The sad thing is, outside revenue that every MLB franchise receives should be at an all-time high. Mo Egger pointed out that the Reds are part of at least 5 new revenue streams over the past year-plus. He didn’t say what all of those streams are, but three of them have to be the Apple TV+ Friday night deal, the Peacock Sunday morning deal, and the deal to house a sportsbook in what has been the Machine Room at GABP. Plus the teams are probably getting more TV money because of the expanded playoffs.

Yet it would not surprise me at all if this backward ownership group uses poor attendance as a reason why they can’t increase spending.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
This team will lose fans in the next 2-3 years. Revenue will catch up to the product on the field and the losing attitude of ownership. The threat to move the team to another city was next level stupid.
Nah...now this season I think will start out pretty slow. I look for this franchise to be pretty good by 2024 and a contender in 2025 and beyond. And believe me, when they are contending and wining again, you'll be the first one down there buying up seats. Most fan bases are bandwagon fans.
 
Nah...now this season I think will start out pretty slow. I look for this franchise to be pretty good by 2024 and a contender in 2025 and beyond. And believe me, when they are contending and wining again, you'll be the first one down there buying up seats. Most fan bases are bandwagon fans.
We HOPE that the team will be pretty good by 2024 and a contender in 2025. At this point we have 2 solid pitching prospects (Greene and Lodolo) and 2 maybes (Ashcraft and Diaz).

We have zero dynamic young players on offense. We need most of the young prospects to become legit MLB hitters in order to contend. India and Stephenson could be good offensive players if they can be healthy, but they are not stars.

Pittsburgh has Oneil Cruz, who proved after his call up that he can be a star in the MLB. Seattle has Julio Rodriguez, who is already a star. The Reds need to find a guy like that. We hope it is Elly De La Cruz, or Marte, or Arroyo, or McLain. We hope at least 3 of them make it as very good MLB hitters.

But as I've said, hope is not a strategy. The front office needs a plan B.
 
BE39BB64-790F-4A3B-BED3-0EEDA3558778.png

Maybe the Reds could jettison someone worthless like Senzel and get Winker back for 2023 if Seattle really wants to get rid of him.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
Nah...now this season I think will start out pretty slow. I look for this franchise to be pretty good by 2024 and a contender in 2025 and beyond. And believe me, when they are contending and wining again, you'll be the first one down there buying up seats. Most fan bases are bandwagon fans.
Well, I won’t be because I don’t live in Cincinnati. But your Superfan persona is at least amusing. Especially where you try and talk down to other fans despite unanimously having the worst takes on most things Reds. Such as saying “2025 and beyond”. Small market teams should expect rebuilds where they will not be in contention. Your assumption this will be the last rebuild is hilariously naive.
 
We HOPE that the team will be pretty good by 2024 and a contender in 2025. At this point we have 2 solid pitching prospects (Greene and Lodolo) and 2 maybes (Ashcraft and Diaz).

We have zero dynamic young players on offense. We need most of the young prospects to become legit MLB hitters in order to contend. India and Stephenson could be good offensive players if they can be healthy, but they are not stars.

Pittsburgh has Oneil Cruz, who proved after his call up that he can be a star in the MLB. Seattle has Julio Rodriguez, who is already a star. The Reds need to find a guy like that. We hope it is Elly De La Cruz, or Marte, or Arroyo, or McLain. We hope at least 3 of them make it as very good MLB hitters.

But as I've said, hope is not a strategy. The front office needs a plan B.
If you're the Reds, you plug as many of those guys into the AA, AAA system as possible next season and beyond.
I'd love to have Oneil Cruz, but I'd hold off the stardom talk with him. He had a nice stretch of games to end the season, but he hit .233 last year in over 300 at bats. As we saw with Derek Dietrich and Aristeds Aquino, guys can get hot in stretches. Big thing for us moving into 2023, build a bullpen and stay healthy. I cannot imagine we'll ever have a season like 2022 with injuries.
 
If you're the Reds, you plug as many of those guys into the AA, AAA system as possible next season and beyond.
I'd love to have Oneil Cruz, but I'd hold off the stardom talk with him. He had a nice stretch of games to end the season, but he hit .233 last year in over 300 at bats. As we saw with Derek Dietrich and Aristeds Aquino, guys can get hot in stretches. Big thing for us moving into 2023, build a bullpen and stay healthy. I cannot imagine we'll ever have a season like 2022 with injuries.
Again you come with the batting average. How about 17 HR, 54 RBI, 10 SB in little more than half a season? At age 23.

Cruz was on everyone's radar as a top prospect and he showed why. Comparing him to Dietrich (old) and Aquino (never a top prospect, muddling through the minors when he suddenly got hot) is silly.
 
Still no word on whether Phil and Krall will be tarred and feathered at Fountain Square to kick off RedsFest.

But I did get an email recently from the Reds seeking RedsFest volunteers. I feel like they’re kind of asking a bit much. You have to commit to a full 9-hour shift. You can’t just work a few hours and be done. You have to attend a training session a few nights prior to the event. You have no say over the type of work they give you. You only get: 1. A free meal during your shift. 2. A parking stipend. 3. Two View Level tickets to a non-premium game in 2023 (that would undoubtedly be available for $5 a pop on the secondary market anyway). You do not get any parking stipend for the training night.

Doesn’t seem like a great deal to me.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
Well, I won’t be because I don’t live in Cincinnati. But your Superfan persona is at least amusing. Especially where you try and talk down to other fans despite unanimously having the worst takes on most things Reds. Such as saying “2025 and beyond”. Small market teams should expect rebuilds where they will not be in contention. Your assumption this will be the last rebuild is hilariously naive.
Actually, small markets should not "rebuild" there should be a constant building of the minor league system to the point where young guys are ready to step into the majors when you move guys into free agency - or trade for more young guys.
Do you think Nick Krall and the Castellini's really wanted to get rid of Luis Castillo? Of course not, but you can't run the team on the emotions of keeping favorite players. My guess in a few years they may need to move Greene and Lodolo and not sign them to $200,000 contacts. That's the blueprint for the Reds.
Still no word on whether Phil and Krall will be tarred and feathered at Fountain Square to kick off RedsFest.

But I did get an email recently from the Reds seeking RedsFest volunteers. I feel like they’re kind of asking a bit much. You have to commit to a full 9-hour shift. You can’t just work a few hours and be done. You have to attend a training session a few nights prior to the event. You have no say over the type of work they give you. You only get: 1. A free meal during your shift. 2. A parking stipend. 3. Two View Level tickets to a non-premium game in 2023 (that would undoubtedly be available for $5 a pop on the secondary market anyway). You do not get any parking stipend for the training night.

Doesn’t seem like a great deal to me.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Honestly, if I lived in the Cincy area and had a free weekend, I'd consider it. The Reds are in a no win situation with many fans. They get crap if they are not in the community doing good things, and they get crap for hosting an event where fans can get up close with players because they are not winning on the field right now.

To your point, yes, it seems pretty light for all that's involved, but as Phil says..."what are you going to do?"
 
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Maybe the Reds could jettison someone worthless like Senzel and get Winker back for 2023 if Seattle really wants to get rid of him.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
I believe Winker is due like $8 mill next season. If we could bring him back for half of that, I'd listen. He's not an $8 mill a year player.
 
I believe Winker is due like $8 mill next season. If we could bring him back for half of that, I'd listen. He's not an $8 mill a year player.

According to Spotrac’s linked list, 32 outfielders made $8 million or more this year. I have to imagine that number is going to go up for 2023 once all player deals end up getting finalized.

I don’t think $8 million is a bad deal at all for someone who has had a better-than-league-average OPS every year of his career. His limited defensive skills aren’t too painful in GABP since it’s basically impossible to turn hits into triples out in LF.

I remember your primary knock on Winker was that he was hurt all the time. Well, he played 136 games this year, and several of the games he missed were due to suspension from the Angels fight.

Given the calamitous state of the current Reds outfield, I would not be opposed at all to having Winker back since it’s a one-year deal. Assuming he plays well, that’s an asset that can be flipped at the trade deadline next year.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
One last point on Winker: Since he’s a free agent after next year, that might be his one chance to cash in big. I would bet he’ll play his tail off next year trying to max out his value.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
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