OHSAA needs to create new divisional placement

cincyhoops said:
Competitive Balance is a waste of time Very few teams are moved up/down. It's a lot of paperwork for AD's with very minimal action. OHSAA might as well get rid of it and save AD's a lot of time.
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I would think this is not accurate and that there are a lot of teams that are moved because of the CB formulas use. All the AD has to do is enter the status of anywhere between 10-20 kids each season for basketball. Simple data entry.
 
CasualFan24 said:
I have a question in regards to CB and open enrollment - hoping someone has the correct info....

-Does the the open enrollment CB factor count for kids open enrolling regardless of when they open enrolled? So in other words, is it always factored no matter how long they've been at the school?

I don't think there is a plausible change from size based divisions - I get what everyone wants to accomplish here, but you'd be wrecking a system that probably 98% of schools are probably ok with.

The Richmond Hts situation is bad for basketball for everyone in the state. They are cheating within the rules. The only way to beat what they are doing, is to change the transfer rules. If you transfer to open enroll anytime after 7th grade, no post season play for that player for all 4 years of high school. It's harsh, but solves a lot of problems.
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A kid should be able to transfer, go to school, and play wherever his family feels is the best situation for them. The only way I think a tradition factor would be fair is if a) the % of varsity roster that wasn’t in your school system during 7th grade and b) the % of varsity roster or scoring returning the following year. A bunch of guys playing varsity for the first time as juniors shouldn’t have to move up simply because they followed an amazing class that has graduated. That’s kind of like giving schools bowl bans for past actions. The ones responsible aren’t paying the price.
 
D4fan said:
Seperate by category of school. For the most part the problem of small school super teams has came from urban or suburban densely populated areas building these programs.
Div 1 = Urban
Div 2 = large Suburban
Div 3= small suburban
Div4 = rural
Small rural communities have not been exempt from getting transfers, but it has looked different in the quality and skill they get vs VASJ playing in D4 (2013) and Richmond Heights the last couple years.

Another way to seperate would be to use a computer points system similar to football. The idea would be no one would know what division they would be placed in until after the last game of the year. Then the computer would use strength of schedule, wins/ losses etc to determine divisional placement. You could have flexibility in how many teams go into each division.
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Seriously? How about by race and income? This idea smells funky!
 
spirit454 said:
I would think this is not accurate and that there are a lot of teams that are moved because of the CB formulas use. All the AD has to do is enter the status of anywhere between 10-20 kids each season for basketball. Simple data entry.
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There are not a lot of teams moved because of competitive balance. They publish the numbers every year. And AD's have to do this for every sport, not just basketball.
 
My suggestion is to use an RPI system to designate the top 64 teams (willing to drop to 32 but don't want to go higher than 64).

After the top 64 teams are chosen, split the remaining teams based on enrollment (no CB) into three equal divisions. All champions are rewarded by moving up at least one division the following year. That way the only way to win back-to-back championships in the same division is in the top division.

Schools should be encouraged to list on their walls the years they made the top division. Enrollment plays no part in making the top division.
 
419Jester said:
I respect your opinion but I just don’t like punishing kids and families for exercising a choice that puts them in a better situation.
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What about all other kids/families at all the other D4 schools getting "punished" because they had zero chance of winning a state title? The road goes more than just one way. A transfer not being able to play in the post season is not that big of "punishment" to the kid or his family. It just needs to be a known consequence of the decision that is made to transfer.
 
spirit454 said:
The kid can still go to the better school and get better academics. He could still develop his potential in the better sports program. He just cannot play in the post season his first year there. That's my feeling.
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That's also already the rule. 🤷‍♂️
 
CC Track Fan said:
What about all other kids/families at all the other D4 schools getting "punished" because they had zero chance of winning a state title? The road goes more than just one way. A transfer not being able to play in the post season is not that big of "punishment" to the kid or his family. It just needs to be a known consequence of the decision that is made to transfer.
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Most schools, in either division, already have zero chance of winning a state title.
 
D4fan said:
Seperate by category of school. For the most part the problem of small school super teams has came from urban or suburban densely populated areas building these programs.
Div 1 = Urban
Div 2 = large Suburban
Div 3= small suburban
Div4 = rural
Small rural communities have not been exempt from getting transfers, but it has looked different in the quality and skill they get vs VASJ playing in D4 (2013) and Richmond Heights the last couple years.

Another way to seperate would be to use a computer points system similar to football. The idea would be no one would know what division they would be placed in until after the last game of the year. Then the computer would use strength of schedule, wins/ losses etc to determine divisional placement. You could have flexibility in how many teams go into each division.
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Y’all may mess around and inadvertently create a Jim Crow division! Water fountains and all.😂😂
 
cincyhoops said:
There are not a lot of teams moved because of competitive balance. They publish the numbers every year. And AD's have to do this for every sport, not just basketball.
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Only team sports and if one team is bumped up that means another is bumped down. With 4 divisions in basketball and 7 in football I would think there are at least a modest amount adjusted.
 
The Dock said:
pal it’s not like D4 is that open lol outside of the SCAL, MAC, Crestview and Hiland there’s nothing there
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Really, since 2000, Ft. Jennings, Holgate, Bethel, Tri Village, Georgetown, Oak Hill, and even though New Knoxville is in the MAC it is one of the smallest schools in the state (along with Ft. Jennings) all have won state. Plus Lincolnview and Wellington.
 
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Bball216 said:
That is not true. It only takes a few good players to be really good in basketball because there is only 5 players on the floor. In fact it's probably the only sport this can happen.
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Exactly!! I would think basketball would be the main and only sport a D4 could be best in the state. A whole lot more reasonable than football or baseball.
 
cincyhoops said:
What do you define as a modest amount?
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Just pulling a number out, over 10%. A person can easily count on the OHSAA site the number of teams that were moved from one division to another by the CB because they indicate them on a spreadsheet. But you would also have to check the teams at the limits of each division range to know if they were moved once the CB was used to set the division limits. Meaning, with the CB the largest team in D4 would have been D3. Or the largest team in D2 would have been D1 with out the CB. With 800 schools and roughly 200 in each division, for every team that moves you should have a counter action.
 
spirit454 said:
Just pulling a number out, over 10%. A person can easily count on the OHSAA site the number of teams that were moved from one division to another by the CB because they indicate them on a spreadsheet. But you would also have to check the teams at the limits of each division range to know if they were moved once the CB was used to set the division limits. Meaning, with the CB the largest team in D4 would have been D3. Or the largest team in D2 would have been D1 with out the CB. With 800 schools and roughly 200 in each division, for every team that moves you should have a counter action.
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So 10% of 800 would be 80.

17 schools moved up due to CB, while 19 moved down. So a total of 36 schools moved. About 4.5%. Seems like a waste of time.

 
spirit454 said:
Your numbers may be a little off.
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How so? They are straight from the OHSAA spreadsheet.

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cdub4 said:
Exactly!! I would think basketball would be the main and only sport a D4 could be best in the state. A whole lot more reasonable than football or baseball.
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Back around 2016 I think it was Summit Country Day out of Cincy won the D3 state championship in boys soccer. D3 is the smallest division in soccer. If I remember correctly they had six players that went on to play D1 college soccer, one that played D1 basketball, and I think two that played D1 lacrosse. They were loaded with top tier athletes. They won the title game 9-1. There was plenty of talk that year that they might have been the best in the state regardless of division.
 
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