green_genes
Well-known member
They actually have a rule in the Phillipines - foreign players have to be 6’5” or under. They measure guys laying down so they can’t slouch.
OHSAA needs to create new divisional placement
- Thread starter Yappi
- Start date
Irish60
Well-known member
Enrollment has to be a metric in making up divisions unless you want OHSAA to use different metrics for different sports; which I cannot see them doing! For football especially, you really have to take the size of the school into account. Otherwise, I think you can even the field a bit by assigning teams to divisons that are reflective of their schedule. That way, if you have a D4 school that plays mainly D1 and D2 teams, then it would be fair to have them play in the D2 tournament. IMO I doubt players are attending Richmond Heights because it gives them a chance to win a D4 state title. I'm thinking they are more likely attracted to Richmond Heights because they get to play St. Edward, Harvest Prep and a much more competitive schedule. If you "weighted" their schedule and it shows that (just based on the size of the school metric already in place) they play, on average, a D2 schedule, then they should be slotted into the D2 tournament. I doubt Richmond Heights would have an issue with that. And, truly, it may make Richmond Heights a more attractive option for families deciding where they want to send their chidren.
The Dock
Ohio Hog Voter
When the earliest ‘competitive balance’ proposals were getting workshopped, put to a vote, defeated (rinse and repeat) there were suggestions to implement a “tradition” factor as well as a “socioeconomic” factor.
Those never made it in to the current system. What is ironic about those two factors is they, prima facie, would’ve likely kept Richmond Heights D4 in hoops while places like Marion Local would possibly be D3 in hoops and locked into D5 or D6 in football.
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
I think this is where the conversation should start. Who you schedule should matter.
There is a way to make the divisions more accurate based on the ability of the schools to field a competitive team.
Personally, I would like the OHSAA to devise divisions so that every school wanted to be in the highest division even if they have the smallest enrollment. Play to be the best. Richmond Heights lost that opportunity by playing in DIV this year. They might be in the argument today for the best team in the state but that argument will fade. They needed to beat the best of the best to be the best. That is not possible unless they are playing in the top division. Hoban has that title now and deserves the recognition as the best in the state.
winbypin
Well-known member
In 2023 you want to limit exceptions student athletes are allowed? Ohsaa will be in court a lot.
winbypin
Well-known member
Good luck proving that one.
green_genes
Well-known member
Hear me out: $10,000 to the winner.
green_genes
Well-known member
They made a kid sit out his senior year after moving to Clarkston because he did it for basketball. He was a Michigan State recruit: Thomas Kithier.
winbypin
Well-known member
How did they prove it? I am interested in that part of the story.
In Ohio just say you've been bullied.
green_genes
Well-known member
I'm not saying they cannot attend the school, but extra curriculars are just that, extra.
CC Track Fan
Well-known member
If the kid played that sport the prior year at a different school can't play that sport at the new school the next year. If wanted they could do a different sport so played basketball last year at different school can wrestle or swim for new school.
winbypin
Well-known member
That's dumb. What if their parents had to move for work? Punish the kids?
The Dock
Ohio Hog Voter
In the same state where home-school kids can play for their public.
winbypin
Well-known member
Well sure. What if the kid is leaving a dangerous situation at their original school, has a little dysfunction in their family, and playing sports helps keep them disciplined at school?
Still no because of Richmond Heights?
winbypin
Well-known member
And where private school students can play sports at their public if the sport isn't offered at their private school.....In the same state where home-school kids can play for their public.
Home school kids live inside the district.In the same state where home-school kids can play for their public.
That's what got us into this situation. We made rules to govern a million kids because of one. We cannot make every kid or parent happy. If school is a bad place, move into a different school district. Or change schools and know the rules.
winbypin
Well-known member
Feel like you're missing the point of school and extracurricular activities....
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
How about people these fixing their schools community pride LOL.
That could be a different debate. I feel that every kid should be able to go to any school they want. When they want to participate in that schools extra activities is when there needs to be rules.
winbypin
Well-known member
There are rules though. Lots of student athletes end up sitting out parts of seasons because they have transferred for one reason or another and did not meet one of the exceptions.
I can agree. I support the idea of making it consistent.There are rules though. Lots of student athletes end up sitting out parts of seasons because they have transferred for one reason or another and did not meet one of the exceptions.
There would be a bunch of 6'7" kids looking for a team of short players so the coach wouldn't cut them from the team.
" Son, we would love to have you here playing for us, but as you know the Smith kid who is a Freshman is already 6'4". If we take you and he grows a couple inches in the next couple years we can not compete with the other teams in the tall division. So sorry, gonna have to pass on you till we see if Smith quits growing."
Seperate by category of school. For the most part the problem of small school super teams has came from urban or suburban densely populated areas building these programs.
Div 1 = Urban
Div 2 = large Suburban
Div 3= small suburban
Div4 = rural
Small rural communities have not been exempt from getting transfers, but it has looked different in the quality and skill they get vs VASJ playing in D4 (2013) and Richmond Heights the last couple years.
Another way to seperate would be to use a computer points system similar to football. The idea would be no one would know what division they would be placed in until after the last game of the year. Then the computer would use strength of schedule, wins/ losses etc to determine divisional placement. You could have flexibility in how many teams go into each division.
Div 1 = Urban
Div 2 = large Suburban
Div 3= small suburban
Div4 = rural
Small rural communities have not been exempt from getting transfers, but it has looked different in the quality and skill they get vs VASJ playing in D4 (2013) and Richmond Heights the last couple years.
Another way to seperate would be to use a computer points system similar to football. The idea would be no one would know what division they would be placed in until after the last game of the year. Then the computer would use strength of schedule, wins/ losses etc to determine divisional placement. You could have flexibility in how many teams go into each division.
First off the OHSAA does not have the man power to enforce or investigate recruiting or transfer violations. Unless a school does something so blatant and obvious the odds are nothing is going to happen. Second you cannot place a team in a division based on talent or tradition because talent changes up and down yearly. If a team is great one year and graduates a bunch of Seniors - you cannot punish the kids coming up because the previous class was successful. School size is the only way to place teams. Richmond Heights has just happened to catch lightning in a bottle. They did not do it to win the D4 state title - they just happen to be that small of a school. They have a coach kids want to play for, they have open enrollment, they have a new high school and gym and they are surrounded by poor performing academic and athletic schools. Don't tell me if your school had a bad program and your child was talented you would not transfer your child. That is what happened. Every school has the option to have open enrollment. Richmond Heights did not opt into open enrollment for basketball. Heights has seen a steady decline in students over the years. They need students to pay the bills and to avoid having a operation levy on the ballot every year. There are regular non sport playing kids going there as transfers as well. Do you think the football coach who can barely field a team cares about basketball being in D4 ? He would take 30 kids in right now if he could. I think people assume things are done just for the sake of winning. Boys Basketball is just one facet of a high school. There are alot of moving parts and to think everything is done just to stay in D4 and win a state title is ludicrous.
There is a simple solution to all of this. For the sake of this discussion lets divide schools into 2 basic catergories.
Category A "traditional public school where the athletes have to live in that district to be able to play. Category B " parochial/private/prep/open enrollment public/magnet."
If school A and school B have equal facilities and resources and the coaches are comporable, School B has a competetive advantage. It is common sense. School B can get athletes from anywhere, where as school A can only have athletes who live in their district. Currently NY, NJ, CT, MD DC, DE NC, TN, Al, MS, GA, LA and TX just to name a few do not allow category B schools to play in the public school playoffs. They have seperate state tournaments. Category A and B can play each other in the regular season, but play in separate playoffs. Now you do not have to worry about competetive balance. And they have divisions in each category based on enrollment.
In Ohio I would imagine that out of the 800 schools that compete at least 25% would fall into category B, maybe more. Just separate these schools when it comes to the playoffs.
If a school want to recruit or has open enrollment ,fine. They get to play in category B . Just cut though all of the mess.
Just a thought
Category A "traditional public school where the athletes have to live in that district to be able to play. Category B " parochial/private/prep/open enrollment public/magnet."
If school A and school B have equal facilities and resources and the coaches are comporable, School B has a competetive advantage. It is common sense. School B can get athletes from anywhere, where as school A can only have athletes who live in their district. Currently NY, NJ, CT, MD DC, DE NC, TN, Al, MS, GA, LA and TX just to name a few do not allow category B schools to play in the public school playoffs. They have seperate state tournaments. Category A and B can play each other in the regular season, but play in separate playoffs. Now you do not have to worry about competetive balance. And they have divisions in each category based on enrollment.
In Ohio I would imagine that out of the 800 schools that compete at least 25% would fall into category B, maybe more. Just separate these schools when it comes to the playoffs.
If a school want to recruit or has open enrollment ,fine. They get to play in category B . Just cut though all of the mess.
Just a thought