Yeah I think it’s because they’re cheap, no larger reason than that.
Officiating, what is happening?
- Thread starter OldBaldGuyGaming
- Start date
Doublehelix
Well-known member
There are a small pocket of very good refs. Pay those guys, because those are the guys that are good.
Most of the population of refs aren't very good. They don't deserve raises. They're out there making sure freshman and JV games get played. ADs don't care as much about the quality in these games.
They have their preferred varsity refs in their pocket. That's just the reality of the siutation.
Again, you can't suck, and then demand more money.
And you can’t draw in people who don’t suck without offering a better wage. Double-edged sword.
Doublehelix
Well-known member
ADs also don't do a very good job of protecting the refs from idiot fans.
AllSports12
Moderator
Was the norm over 30 years ago.
it still happens today, but extremely rare when you co sister the big picture
Doublehelix
Well-known member
Both sides are in the right, and both sides are in the wrong.
If you refuse to compromise, you stalemate. That's where we are.
If you refuse to compromise, you stalemate. That's where we are.
Rush Limbaugh
Well-known member
I’ll buy that…
ADs are busy enough nowadays. It’s so much easier and ethical to use an assignor.
As a taxpayer, I’m all for the stewards of public money being “cheap” as opposed to profligate. I do understand, though, that being too cheap could run good referees out of the business or fail to attract new ones.
1. Assignors don’t care who works their games as long as they are covered due to the shortage. Marquee games will definitely have the expectation crews work them who can handle them but at the core in football for example as long as there is a crew there Friday night the ADs are happy.
2. Assignors can assign any level of any sport. So can ADs. It varies across the state as to which party is primarily assigning games.
3. Pay isnt set by the state nor ADs nor conferences. I’m quoting several OHSAA staff here - officials set the pay. Henceforth why several areas had officials flat out refuse to work without an increase. For many years schools and leagues were able to underpay based on value and get away with it and now are being called on it by officials as they are independent contractors. The OHSAA has leeway to set minimums as more than half of other state athletic associations do but has not to this point and won’t.
4. The average fan knows ~80% of the rules but the other ~20 are a mystery as are the mechanics to enforce them and often they cite a different rules code in their arguments.
5. OHSAA.org/officiating / sign up any time.
2. Assignors can assign any level of any sport. So can ADs. It varies across the state as to which party is primarily assigning games.
3. Pay isnt set by the state nor ADs nor conferences. I’m quoting several OHSAA staff here - officials set the pay. Henceforth why several areas had officials flat out refuse to work without an increase. For many years schools and leagues were able to underpay based on value and get away with it and now are being called on it by officials as they are independent contractors. The OHSAA has leeway to set minimums as more than half of other state athletic associations do but has not to this point and won’t.
4. The average fan knows ~80% of the rules but the other ~20 are a mystery as are the mechanics to enforce them and often they cite a different rules code in their arguments.
5. OHSAA.org/officiating / sign up any time.
AllSports12
Moderator
Two and a half hours of huddles....
That kind of embellishment causes people to dismiss you even when you have a valid argument.
Every regular season varsity game I have done has come through a league assigner.
Only two leagues I work in also use the assigner for JV and 9th grade games. Other leagues it is the AD's.
All 7 & 8 grade games come from school AD's.
Some AD's work through local associations, some recruit officials directly.
Two years ago I started getting contracts for sub-varsity games the following season as AD's wanted to make sure they had officials.
That has been my experience. I am sure is varies around the state.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
In a theoretical sense, yes. In reality each league determines what it will pay officials.
A. School budgets are always tight.
B. Pay has gone up, but varsity pay continues to be ridiculously low.
C. Some, including officials, have said, "Schools cannot afford to pay more." Yes they can, school districts have budgets in the millions of dollars.
D. The OHSAA wants the 6-man varsity crew as the new standard with the next two years. That will be a 20% jump in officiating costs and there is already push back from some leagues.
Rush Limbaugh
Well-known member
I’m sure it varies around the state. Maybe I should have left some wiggle room in my post.
My experience has been all games 7th/8th, freshman, JV and varsity have all come via an assignor.
For those that are wondering… a lot of sub varsity games are being officiated with three officials instead of four because there are not enough. There’s plenty of work for those that want to do it.
The AD email addresses are available on the myohsaa website that every official haaccess to. I promise they didn’t care who I was. The fact I was a qualified body who was available was priority 1 for them.
Some of the schools either didn’t respond or simply said thank you. I didn’t work any games for them. I assume their games were filled. That’s why I contacted more than 1.
Or, I could just chalk it up to them hiring their preferred officials and not giving me a chance.
Bidenomics
Well-known member
5 sport official
it’s an extracurricular activity but these old dudes are making it next to impossible to enjoy.
The pressure should be forced to assignors. Some of these guys make a mint depending on how many teams they have assigning. Not to mention a lot of them still work games.
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
This is exactly what’s wrong with your generation in my opinion. Sure there are some cocky college grads for sure, but to be fair it’s the older generations who put such a strict credentialing process on us. It used to be you could “work your way up off the floor” with hard work and doing things the right way. Now, don’t even call an employer until you’ve earned a bachelors degree and have an internship or two under your belt. Heck my parents didn’t even have to do those things.
Point is, more is expected out of the 25-35 age group to gain employment so yeah a nice salary is expected. Younger folks have a lot to learn and should always be respectful, coachable & appropriate. However, if I have to achieve more to be hired by you then hell yes you better pay up
AllSports12
Moderator
Thanks for making my point. You are upset that it's going to be hard. Well snowflake, the people that have groomed you with the mindset that "everyone wins" have done you wrong. Welcome to the real world.
Your beef should be with them, not me.
Which is it with you? Is it too hard due to our "strict credentials" or do you want to be able to come in and work your way up?
So an employer should change their standards because you didn't do what millions of others have done thoughout history? Life's hard..... It will remain hard for those who sit back and whine about it. It becomes less hard for those who go out and get it done.
Thank you again for making my point.
Again..... you can't have it both ways
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Oil Filter
Well-known member
First, you have to show that you've achieved anything at all. Hint: previous employment is not an achievement.
None of the seven leagues I assign for sets any rates.
Any league who offers below what others do in the same area finds themselves without officials very quickly. Any assignor who lets the leagues set rates is doing it wrong.
Do you work for free?5 sport official
it’s an extracurricular activity but these old dudes are making it next to impossible to enjoy.
The pressure should be forced to assignors. Some of these guys make a mint depending on how many teams they have assigning. Not to mention a lot of them still work games.
Yes we get paid to assign. It’s a cost benefit analysis each school has to figure out if it’s worth their time and effort to assign or pay an assignor. Those who pay us always come back with “it’s worth every penny”
I don’t think you could offer me enough money to be an assignor, and if I was an AD, I’d pay whatever they asked for their services without blinking.
Thanks for saying that. I charge a modest fee. I like making the extra cabbage, but I’m also not going to pillage the school. They have budgets and a lot of times extra money, but not what people think. There are many athletic directors in seasons with a lot of bad weather particularly hard to schedule around, will often tell me when I send the invoice send it for $50 more because you did a great job.
Sykotyk
Well-known member
Texas makes a lot more off HS Football per game. UIL has a lot fewer sports they sponsor. They pay their officials much better even in rural areas. And yet they still have the exact same problem as Ohio.
Ohio is facing the same problem PA is dealing with since Covid. And what New York has been dealing with for almost a decade.
The only real option is more Thursday and Saturday games and have officials doing multiple varsity games a weekend. There really isn't much that can be done. Because it's incredibly hard to get people into it.
Ohio is facing the same problem PA is dealing with since Covid. And what New York has been dealing with for almost a decade.
The only real option is more Thursday and Saturday games and have officials doing multiple varsity games a weekend. There really isn't much that can be done. Because it's incredibly hard to get people into it.
First of all sarcasm. Second of all. Our game lasted till 10:15 and there were 115 plays where 80 of them were rushing attempts. So I’m probably not exaggerating by a lot. LolTwo and a half hours of huddles....
That kind of embellishment causes people to dismiss you even when you have a valid argument.
Basement Bias
Well-known member
You both are wrong & right at the same time. Many employers are requiring much more than needed for the position they are hiring. Some of those employers will work you on the beginning level and just expect you to stay there forever even if you are a top employee. They get upset when you leave to better yourself. Others do truly require those over the top requirements but will advance you if you perform. There are also individuals that think their degree should start them ahead of others who work their way up. You also have those with degrees that realize you have to work your way up. It's truly a case by case basis instead of the generalizations you both posted.
Basement Bias
Well-known member
As for the officiating, is it time for AI & robots? I think there should be a development path starting with youth leagues. If you can survive those parents, you can survive the others.
