AllSports12
Moderator
And yet.....
Every survey the last 7 years has shown that fan and parent behaivor is the #1 reason why officials are leaving.
Officiating, what is happening?
- Thread starter OldBaldGuyGaming
- Start date
Every survey the last 7 years has shown that fan and parent behaivor is the #1 reason why officials are leaving.
Smarty2022
Well-known member
Sure. Low Pay and Assigner bs does play a part in the Official shortage though. Oh well, not my problem!
cincifbfan
Well-known member
I have seen the same officials 3-4 times a year for the same team going to games and so much when I was coaching that all knew our entire coaching staff's names and even all of our starters' names. It still happens, not as much as it used to, but with the NKY team I follow, I have already seen the exact crew 3 different times this season. Now, that may be because the officiating shortage is much worse in KY than Ohio, but it still happens.
cincifbfan
Well-known member
Now, one thing that I believe needs to mentioned in why parent, coaches, and player behavior is decreasing is the selective non-enforcement of rules. The eye-black thing has already been mentioned here. We can also bring in uniforms and equipment.....every game I go to has kids with their jerseys rolled up exposing their back plates, pants rolled up above their knees, players without mouthpieces in, and players with bracelets/rubber bands, and 12 different sweat bands going up their arms. I have even seen visors with tint on occasion.
And don't get me started on the selective enforcement on false starts...... a kid barely flinches and it's a false start. An offensive lineman, who is already set, gets completely out of his 3 point stance, turns to the sidelines, moves feet, and somehow that's ok.
One week, pass interference is called on any contact downfield, the next, DBs are literally tackling WRs and nothing.
I've also seen more relaxing in celebrations and taunting. I've seen a Gronk spike this year, I see kids signaling first down after they move the chains, and last week, I saw a a DT flex over the QB after a sack and there was nothing.
The consistency is a big issue, and it's really difficult for coaches and kids to know what's right and what's not.
Look, I know that officiating sucks. I did youth baseball for quite a long time, but then work, kids, and their activities now run my life, and there's no time. I, like many, would like to officiate football, unfortunately, my schedule simply won't allow it. I think many younger people today are in similar predicaments, their work schedules simply don't allow them the opportunity to officiate...... those 9-5 jobs are just not there for most people under the age of 40 that I know.
And don't get me started on the selective enforcement on false starts...... a kid barely flinches and it's a false start. An offensive lineman, who is already set, gets completely out of his 3 point stance, turns to the sidelines, moves feet, and somehow that's ok.
One week, pass interference is called on any contact downfield, the next, DBs are literally tackling WRs and nothing.
I've also seen more relaxing in celebrations and taunting. I've seen a Gronk spike this year, I see kids signaling first down after they move the chains, and last week, I saw a a DT flex over the QB after a sack and there was nothing.
The consistency is a big issue, and it's really difficult for coaches and kids to know what's right and what's not.
Look, I know that officiating sucks. I did youth baseball for quite a long time, but then work, kids, and their activities now run my life, and there's no time. I, like many, would like to officiate football, unfortunately, my schedule simply won't allow it. I think many younger people today are in similar predicaments, their work schedules simply don't allow them the opportunity to officiate...... those 9-5 jobs are just not there for most people under the age of 40 that I know.
That is poor practice and I will not do it unless there is some issue previously so serious that it is as last resort.
I'd like to know the area where you could remove an official and have a whole bunch available where you could NOT re-use the one removed. Whenever I have to remove an official for a legit reason (e.g., sick, kid sick, work issue) I have a ton of other movement to get things covered.
Bidenomics
Well-known member
What area/region you in?Please elaborate
School of choice?
In football, I do not see a school a second time until the playoffs. In basketball and baseball I do not see a school more than twice until the playoffs.
I go where the assigner sends me. Every assigner I work for agrees that seeing someone too many times a season isn't good for either party.
I have 1-5 new officials (2yrs or less) at every Friday night game shadowing the crew. I don't work Saturday mornings, instead I go to the JV games of the officials who typically shadow us. I do th same things for junior high games. That frees up 14 assignments weekly. I also do not work youth sports, so there's a season full of assignments open.
I do that for 3 sports and have been doing that for over 25 years
It does if the schools put in their documents. I can see several in my view between schools.
That does not cover an official being removed by an assignor. I can remove any official from any game for any reason without having to pay anyone. Ethically I will not when coach asks (see above post).
Interesting. I’ve done about 20-25 soccer games this season and haven’t been issued a contract on dragonfly once.
Let me clarify as I misread yours - the contracts visible are between schools, I have not seen a contract with the officials.
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
Again, it's not younger folks wanting it "given" to them. If I can make more working OT then what's the incentive to officiate? Lets be honest, unless you're a teacher or a remote worker (hard to achieve that before 40) then good luck making officiating work with your schedule for anything but Fridays & Saturdays
cincifbfan
Well-known member
Even many teachers have a really hard time officiating with schedules. There's afterschool tutoring/help sessions that every teacher I know do regularly, there's coaching gigs, managing/supervising other extracurriculars like clubs, I know teachers who run the after school program for elementary schools, and the others have side hustles that occupy them regularly..... one does inventory/delivery stuff for a local retail, and another is a shift manager for a local gym. I don't know any teachers who leave right after school to go home, working that second job wore me down personally after 12 years and it wasn't worth not having any free time.
It's ironic this post. Most teachers I know (including myself) who became officials did it for the extra income and because they could. Now, all these extra duties are required and come with little to no extra pay as compared to what they could make officiating.
I worked games in multiple sports all summer and even at Kroger to make extra money. Couldnt do that now by a long shot with a family and expanded roles.
AllSports12
Moderator
You act like this is something new........ It's not.
I took time away from officiating when I started my business in my early 20's. Came back a few years later when my business became profitable and I had people in place to allow me to resume the hectic schedule.
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
But there's a serious shortage officials my man! This isn't the damn 70's anymore and you don't seem to understand that
simkon
Well-known member
@AllSports12
So let me ask you this...
Suppose I wanted to be a football official, what am I supposed to do to accommodate that into my schedule? My clients dictate my schedule, I don't get to decide my schedule, that is the terms of my contract. And if I won't agree to the terms of the contract my clients will just find another engineer that will to work in my place. The only way I see me having the availability to officate football or any other high school sport is to quit my job.
For instance the state of Ohio called me last week and said I needed to be in Columbus last weekend to oversee the bridge repairs on SR 315. My shifts were Friday night 6 PM to Saturday morning 10 AM, Saturday evening 5 PM to Sunday Noon. And I was working for the State of Indiana, Friday from 6 AM to 3 PM and again Monday 6 AM to 6 PM. Additionally if I am working primarily in Indiana (this year), Pennsylvania (last year), Florida (previous 5 years), West Virginia (previous year), Kentucky and Michigan (year previous to that), then that complicates things even more without even taking into consideration the hours I work.
So let me ask you this...
Suppose I wanted to be a football official, what am I supposed to do to accommodate that into my schedule? My clients dictate my schedule, I don't get to decide my schedule, that is the terms of my contract. And if I won't agree to the terms of the contract my clients will just find another engineer that will to work in my place. The only way I see me having the availability to officate football or any other high school sport is to quit my job.
For instance the state of Ohio called me last week and said I needed to be in Columbus last weekend to oversee the bridge repairs on SR 315. My shifts were Friday night 6 PM to Saturday morning 10 AM, Saturday evening 5 PM to Sunday Noon. And I was working for the State of Indiana, Friday from 6 AM to 3 PM and again Monday 6 AM to 6 PM. Additionally if I am working primarily in Indiana (this year), Pennsylvania (last year), Florida (previous 5 years), West Virginia (previous year), Kentucky and Michigan (year previous to that), then that complicates things even more without even taking into consideration the hours I work.
I'll be honest...I haven't had time to read through this entire thread; however, I've done a survey with officials in another popular spot (basketball) about specific things they do/don't do in preparation for officiating their sport, pre-game routines and reminders, in-game mechanics, etc. A couple of key issues of concern from my end include:
1.) Simply not following all the suggested and mandated requirements (pre-game meetings, attending clinics, studying case books, etc.) I get it, for the "amount of money" (which isn't much) they get paid at the NFHS level they need to "invest" a lot more time than many of them have or want to put into it to be higher qualified at their job.
2.) Ignoring recommendations and requirements that assignors give (and assignors who never really evaluate their officials). If assignors had time to watch their officials from beginning (arrival, pre-game discussions, pre-game meeting with coaches/captains, watching mechanics on the field, etc.) they'd be embarrassed for the officials that are working under them/for them.
3.) The good-ole boy network. Yes, its still alive and well (and not just in officiating). Assignors give assignments to their favorites/most veteran officials. Some young, hard working officials don't get to work certain games and they are honestly better prepared for games and mechanics, etc. I don't think there is much they can do here.
4.) Finally, the last big thing I've noticed comes down being out of shape. They can't get to the locations/spots they need to get to to see the play unfold. Age, body weight/size, etc. all impacts positioning.
1.) Simply not following all the suggested and mandated requirements (pre-game meetings, attending clinics, studying case books, etc.) I get it, for the "amount of money" (which isn't much) they get paid at the NFHS level they need to "invest" a lot more time than many of them have or want to put into it to be higher qualified at their job.
2.) Ignoring recommendations and requirements that assignors give (and assignors who never really evaluate their officials). If assignors had time to watch their officials from beginning (arrival, pre-game discussions, pre-game meeting with coaches/captains, watching mechanics on the field, etc.) they'd be embarrassed for the officials that are working under them/for them.
3.) The good-ole boy network. Yes, its still alive and well (and not just in officiating). Assignors give assignments to their favorites/most veteran officials. Some young, hard working officials don't get to work certain games and they are honestly better prepared for games and mechanics, etc. I don't think there is much they can do here.
4.) Finally, the last big thing I've noticed comes down being out of shape. They can't get to the locations/spots they need to get to to see the play unfold. Age, body weight/size, etc. all impacts positioning.
It might be difficult to know what is going to be called, missed, or tolerated. It is not difficult to know what's right and what's not.
Of the many dozens of officials I personally know, less than 10% are teachers or remote workers.
Sykotyk
Well-known member
That's why they're leaving. But there isn't a survey--nor could their be one--of why people AREN'T joining. And it's not the parents. It's schedule and pay.
AllSports12
Moderator
You seem to want to change the narrative as to why there is a shortage.But there's a serious shortage officials my man! This isn't the damn 70's anymore and you don't seem to understand that
AllSports12
Moderator
It's not the joining that's the problem, it the retention...... and that's because of the behavior.
As far as the schedule and pay.....
The schedule hasn't changed.
The pay has......
Let me know when it goes to $150
(watch people scream when admission goes through the roof)
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cincifbfan
Well-known member
Let me rephrase that. It's difficult to know how to properly play when the rules are enforced differently from week to week. Playing in the secondary is really hard nowadays because what you can do depends on the officiating crew from week to week.
cincifbfan
Well-known member
Isn't Friday night kickoff 7pm? That was change. Also, many have pointed out, there are more Saturday and Thursday games now, and that moves many JV, Freshman games. Middle School and Youth games seem to change all the time. So, the schedule seems to have changed a great deal over the years, and is more and more as we get further into this shortage.It's not the joining that's the problem, it the retention...... and that's because of the behavior.
As far as the schedule and pay.....
The schedule hasn't changed.
The pay has......
Let me know when it goes to $150
Sykotyk
Well-known member
You think 11am Saturday games and 5pm Monday or Thursday games do a great job of bringing in young people to do it as a side job? And it's not the game's schedule that's the issue. It's the work schedule of all the people who would even moderately show interest in being an official. That whole push for 'service economy' means working non-bankers hours.It's not the joining that's the problem, it the retention...... and that's because of the behavior.
As far as the schedule and pay.....
The schedule hasn't changed.
The pay has......
Let me know when it goes to $150
There's a high threshold to get into officiating. And you start with the JV, Freshman and Junior High games at all times of the week.
AllSports12
Moderator
How do you accomodate that into your schedule, you ask? ....... Well, you don't. Just like I didn't when I started my own business.
When your schedule frees up, then you start (or in my case, get back into) officiating.
AllSports12
Moderator
Again, the work schedule issue isn't something that just popped up in the last 5 years.
simkon
Well-known member
I did soccer and baseball back in the 90s until the early 2000s. I did a handful of soccer games after that as I was a former grade 7 official and an assignor (that knew me very well) for a local league got into a bind a few times and knew I had worked a lot of games previously, despite the fact no longer having the "appropriate credentials" to ref (didn't renew). If I am not mistaken the last soccer game I ever did was around 2007, my last year working full-time for both baseball and soccer was 2002 or 2003, I think. Since I last did any officiating I have only gotten more busy at work and had more difficult logistics and hours to work around. And due to the nature of retirement age continually increasing, it will be a long time before I am retired and available to work, that is unless I retire and get forced to continue working after retirement in my current line of work like a lot of my coworkers who formerly worked for ODOT, PennDOT etc. So I may only be one person, but it is probably the case that many others share a similar situation to me, where it is really out of their hands and the shortage will only get worse.
Sykotyk
Well-known member
The lack of new officials has been going on for a long time. But every year it wasn't solved, the current officials, including all the excess officials that exist above and beyond the ones needed for a Friday night, were all growing a year older. And older.
Regardless the reason stated on a survey, they were all going to die or retire at some point. They can put whatever reason as their 'main reason' but they weren't going to officiate indefinitely.
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
That's the problem though, we've got to find some way to get people to free their schedule up or else things are going to get real bad
Agreed. My comment was for the under 40 crowd only, it's hard for that bunch to find the time to do it & have the desire to