Bidenomics
Well-known member
As long as each love the game, who cares.
Officiating, what is happening?
- Thread starter OldBaldGuyGaming
- Start date
Basement Bias
Well-known member
Those who get injured make great coaches & officials. Remember less than 1% of D1 athletes go pro. You have tons of FBS, FCS, D2, D3, NAIA, Juco, and those that stopped at high school to choose from if you could make it worth their while.
AllSports12
Moderator
Basement Bias
Well-known member
That's an administrative failure in youth leagues & official administration.
AllSports12
Moderator
The simply do not care.
Sure. They can go to the game in their EV.
Bidenomics
Well-known member
So with all the talk about pay. What is a fair rate for 5.5 hours of your Fridays nights??
Let’s average it to 45 min travel to and from. 1.5 hours
1.5 hour pregame.
2 hour game
30 mins post game.
We all know most Fridays its Longer more times than it’s shorter.
Let’s average it to 45 min travel to and from. 1.5 hours
1.5 hour pregame.
2 hour game
30 mins post game.
We all know most Fridays its Longer more times than it’s shorter.
simkon
Well-known member
@Bidenomics I never officiated football but I was formerly a soccer referee and baseball umpire and for 5½ hours of my time and assuming it would capture expenses related to driving to and from the site, I would probably want at a minimum $150, if not $200 for it to make sense.
Gamma Gobbler
Well-known member
There is a reason to not mix bathroom cleaners in the toilet and that should stand true with youth sports and the helicopter parents as youth administrators.
Gamma Gobbler
Well-known member
Maybe look to have "good paying union jobs" as HS and youth officials. Base cost per hour, time and a half for overtime games, $0.55 per mile travelled to and from residence, uniform expense allocation to include cleaning, medical, dental with a kick in to an IRA. Maybe reparations for verbal abuses incurred at $100K for 20 years of service....Would $175 per hour ($962.50 per night) per official be okay? You seem to have thought about this and probably have a more reasonable payout but I am only offering what this administration deems fair and equitable for workers.
Somehow, I think a HS coach is paid far less for invested time with more stress and verbal abuse. However, both professions know what they are getting into...park your invested hours on the street.
Bidenomics
Well-known member
It’s no issue . I easily make roughly 400 a week during football season with zero Friday games or care to do them. Im In it for the money and local youth football pays tremendously better than the time invested on Friday nights.
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
You couldn't be farther from the truth when it comes to me pal. Bottomline is a lot of younger people aren't willing to go through all the hassles, hence we have less officials
AllSports12
Moderator
Yet, you endorse the mindset
Which is exactly my point. You think that by lessening the standards, the quality will increase.
I do not. I have first hand experience at this, both in officiating and in business.
On the officiating side, once the real issues (abusive behavior) are seriously addressed, then the young people we bring in each and every year (there's a bunch) will stay more than 2 years.
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lightspeed84
Well-known member
I haven't read through all these post, but let me give a different perspective that I think contributed to the shortage. 2008 the housing market crashes and things were pretty tough in Northwest/north central Ohio (all of Ohio really). In 2011 my wife and I (who both are teachers) can not find a teaching job and are struggling to find sub jobs (lucky to get 2 days a week at like $70). We both look into officiating, her volleyball and football and baseball for myself. I don't get certified because of the amount of hoops they wanted me to jump through back then and there was really not enough work because of the boomer basically run the show. So I made the decision not to spend the money because of the limited return back then. My wife becomes a certified volleyball official and literally couldn't find work within a 100 mile radius. In the early 2010's when things were still tough for new officials, coaches and teachers, boomers had control of all 3 and weren't really willing to share. Now these boomers are either to old or dead, I think this has a lot to do with why we have such a shortage now. I now currently umpire high school and travel baseball over the summer.
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
Oh we should absolutely not decrease the standards, we just need to be more accomodating for newer refs. See Lightspeed's post below for exactly what I mean. Lets be honest, the long time officials lock down their school of choice for less than varsity games making it hard for new refs to get work.
This x1000. Older refs like Allsports want to blame everyone younger for "being snowflakes" yet they don't admit how hard it is for new officials to get out there without great guidance. I help the newer guys quite a bit, I doubt he does
AllSports12
Moderator
Please elaborate
School of choice?
In football, I do not see a school a second time until the playoffs. In basketball and baseball I do not see a school more than twice until the playoffs.
I go where the assigner sends me. Every assigner I work for agrees that seeing someone too many times a season isn't good for either party.
I have 1-5 new officials (2yrs or less) at every Friday night game shadowing the crew. I don't work Saturday mornings, instead I go to the JV games of the officials who typically shadow us. I do th same things for junior high games. That frees up 14 assignments weekly. I also do not work youth sports, so there's a season full of assignments open.
I do that for 3 sports and have been doing that for over 25 years
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
Again I’m talking about less than varsity. Around here seasoned officials gobble up all the games with schools in their towns. Heck I’ve done that for my “Class II” slate although I will fill in when needed elsewhere.Please elaborate
School of choice?
In football, I do not see a school a second time until the playoffs. In basketball and baseball I do not see a school more than twice until the playoffs.
I go where the assigner sends me. Every assigner I work for agrees that seeing someone too many times a season isn't good for either party.
I have 1-5 new officials (2yrs or less) at every Friday night game shadowing the crew. I don't work Saturday mornings, instead I go to the JV games of the officials who typically shadow us. I do th same things for junior high games. That frees up 14 assignments weekly. I also do not work youth sports, so there's a season full of assignments open.
I do that for 3 sports and have been doing that for over 25 years
My opinion to fix the shortage is $150 minimum for Friday’s and $100 for JH/JV doubleheaders. Also stipends to cover some of the costs for new officials gear & a mentorship program with all new officials in the class being assigned someone for their first two years.
I get your stances and I’ll admit I’m much younger than most with 8 years of experience as I started during my time in college for extra money. On top of that I have a nice remote gig that lets me easily pickup games so I do what I can to cover games. The difficulties today are the parents and pay for luring in new refs. How do you convince someone not to take OT at work so they can go do a JH doubleheader 25 minutes away for $70? On top of that I’ve already had two instances this year of parental ejections for JH games.
Also don’t glaze over what Lightspeed said, a lot of people were burned years ago that we need badly today.
tastesgreatlessfilling
Member
It may have already been discussed in the forum, but what is the rule about eye black? The real OHSAA rule? One crew makes all the kids wipe it off, then the next week they all look like the Ultimate Warrior and it’s game on
Smarty2022
Well-known member
All Sports12, had an Officiating friend tell me that he had his Volleyball Matches for tonight taken away from him this morning. When he asked for an explanation Assignor told him that that Home Team Coach Requested a specific Official for those Matches if he or she was Available. That Official was given the Matches and my friend removed and not given any Matches somewhere else this evening. Is this practice used by Assignors often? Lastly is this Official entitled to some type of a Payment for his commitment Tonight and losing the Matches for no good reason on the day of the event?
If this stuff is going on Statewide and across Multiple Sports I would think the Assignors are actively participating in the shortag of Officials. Enjoyed my time but sure don’t miss this kind of crap bs!
If this stuff is going on Statewide and across Multiple Sports I would think the Assignors are actively participating in the shortag of Officials. Enjoyed my time but sure don’t miss this kind of crap bs!
They are not entitled to any payment, because part of the OHSAA bylaws/contract is that both coaches/schools must agree to the officials on the match. Essentially, the coach revoked his approval of the official, nullifying the assignment, as is their right under the current OHSAA rules.
AllSports12
Moderator
Don't hold your breath on that.
The same obstacles were in place 30 years ago. Somehow, a whole lot of officials figured out how to make it work.
Again, I've never said politics don't play a part in this. who don't let that stop them succeed, those who do, whine about it. Then when they get their chance, they face the harsh reality that they simply aren't good enough.
It is easier than ever to get licensed to officiate High School Sports in Ohio. The courses are online (a huge mistake in my opinion, purely from a training and educational point of view), and half the cost of what they were for face-to-face instruction. And even with that, assigners are begging...... literally begging for people across Ohio to work their sub-varsity level games in every sport.
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Smarty2022
Well-known member
So the Coach says I want Vance Volleyball if he Available and Remove Sandy Setter the day of the Game? If this is the case then why don’t the Coaches Select their Favorite Officials every Game or Match? Or is it the Coach asked for Vance Volleyball and the Assigner said alrighty and then chose to Remove Sandy Setter instead of Dan Dig? From what I hear, there are no actual contracts in DragonFly like there was in arbiter.
AllSports12
Moderator
In football, by rule, one single stripe of eye black is permissible under each eye.
In baseball, as long as it is not profane or distracting, anything can be on a player's face.
Doesn't make sense, does it?
Assignors are hired by schools or conferences so you can consider an assignor/school one and the same, from a legal standpoint, for the purposes of this discussion. But yeah that’s basically how it goes. And you’re also correct , the dragonfly website doesn’t contain any officiating contract language like arbiter did.
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
That’s the thought, people don’t want to make it work anymore. That’s why we’re in this predicament
AllSports12
Moderator
Our Officials' Handbook clearly spells out what is to take place if either party fails to fulfill a game contract..... (and you don't need it in writing to be a contract)
Page 24 - Article 5(a)(iv)........
iv. When either of the contracting parties fails to fulfill/honor a game contract and the act is found to be willful (ex: changing a contract date or time; officiating another game – high school or college), the offending party shall pay the other the contract amount.
Now, the problem here is was this a "wilful" act......... As an official, you have to pick your battles and ask yourself, Is it worth it to pursue this?
Just like anything else in life
AllSports12
Moderator
Those people are the ones that want it given to them. Like I said, it's a generational thing.
AllSports12
Moderator
This has been going on forever....... It's nothing new.
Another example of, "is that the hill I want to die on?"
Smarty2022
Well-known member
That’s an absolute shame! Glad that never happened to me. No wonder they can’t find Officials. I do appreciate the response.