Officiating, what is happening?

I'll add that from my observation, those in charge that would benefit most by a larger pool of qualified officials (OHSAA, local associations, conferences, schools, youth orgs, etc, etc) rely too much on word of mouth to recruit new blood. I don't think I'd be officiating basketball if my dad hadn't talked it up to me. And occassionally I have people approach me asking how to get started because they know I work basketball. Where is the outreach from these organizations? Where is the targeted marketing? Where is the search engine optimization? The Google ads? Signage at local gyms? Ads in the game programs? Announcements at the games such as "The officials for tonight's contest have met OHSAA standards blah blah blah... Our community cannot enjoy youth sports without quality officiating. If YOU are interested in a rewarding side job, visit ohsaa.org/officials"

The only thing remotely like that I've ever seen are emails from local SAY soccer organizations that my kids have done camps and leagues through in the past promoting their upcoming officiating classes.
 
umpire16 said:
They will continue it the next game or event, and there is no system to track this, especially when the next event might be a JV game on the road. The visiting school will laugh when you say Johnny's Dad isnt allowed.
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I wouldn’t do that but I would remove Johnnys Dads from the current Game where he was acting like jackwad. Obviously the Visitors don’t know who the jackwads are until they show up at their Gym or Field.
 
Bidenomics said:
Tell me why the gap is so great between how many guys there are with 30-40 years vs 10-20 in most boards across the state.

Start there 1st
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Boards?

And I am free a few evenings this week to go to the conspiracy meeting if you would tell me where is is.
 
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Bidenomics said:
Tell me why the gap is so great between how many guys there are with 30-40 years vs 10-20 in most boards across the state.

Start there 1st
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Because officiating, by the nature of its schedule, is easier for those whose children are grown or who don’t have any yet. Under 30 and childless or over 50 with the kids grown. The 30-50 age range, while ideal from a performance standpoint, is the hardest to accommodate schedule wise.
 
hammer89 said:
Because officiating, by the nature of its schedule, is easier for those whose children are grown or who don’t have any yet. Under 30 and childless or over 50 with the kids grown. The 30-50 age range, while ideal from a performance standpoint, is the hardest to accommodate schedule wise.
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There’s no room for logic on a Yappi debate hammer, only conspiracy theories are allowed in here
 
The people who are doing this for 30-40 years have jobs and/or families that supported this craft.

many who join the ranks at age ____ flame out from verbal abuse, changes in work or family, loss of enjoyment, or not worth the time vs pay.

the number of people who left for this ^ far exceeds the number who left bc they felt cheated by assignors, though again, I’d acknowledge I’m sure there are a few
 
oxat622 said:
I'll add that from my observation, those in charge that would benefit most by a larger pool of qualified officials (OHSAA, local associations, conferences, schools, youth orgs, etc, etc) rely too much on word of mouth to recruit new blood. I don't think I'd be officiating basketball if my dad hadn't talked it up to me. And occassionally I have people approach me asking how to get started because they know I work basketball. Where is the outreach from these organizations? Where is the targeted marketing? Where is the search engine optimization? The Google ads? Signage at local gyms? Ads in the game programs? Announcements at the games such as "The officials for tonight's contest have met OHSAA standards blah blah blah... Our community cannot enjoy youth sports without quality officiating. If YOU are interested in a rewarding side job, visit ohsaa.org/officials"

The only thing remotely like that I've ever seen are emails from local SAY soccer organizations that my kids have done camps and leagues through in the past promoting their upcoming officiating classes.
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Funny you suggest that piece about the announcement - I have asked anyone who would listen to add such a blurb and the state has said no over and over as have ADs.
 
hammer89 said:
Because officiating, by the nature of its schedule, is easier for those whose children are grown or who don’t have any yet. Under 30 and childless or over 50 with the kids grown. The 30-50 age range, while ideal from a performance standpoint, is the hardest to accommodate schedule wise.
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Yep, and unless leagues and schools are willing to think differently about what time games are scheduled, this isn't going to change much. Plus, folks are having kids later in life than the past generation.

But, I will say, in baseball and softball at least many schools are flexing start times to accommodate official's personal schedules and it's working very well, so it is possible but in full disclosure, there was alot of "but the start time has ALWAYS been xx p.m." and it's not they cannot change it, you are trying to change what people view as sacred when it's really not.

When it comes to kids, I literally had an AD last year move a game on a Saturday to get officials and it was basically "you have them tell me when they can work and we will play" and the guys on the game were able to see their kids' games that morning and early afternoon, then go work a top tier match up. Could I have put other officials on it? Not really, since we were all booked up otherwise and the weather was an issue.
 
CoachHoversten said:
The people who are doing this for 30-40 years have jobs and/or families that supported this craft.

many who join the ranks at age ____ flame out from verbal abuse, changes in work or family, loss of enjoyment, or not worth the time vs pay.

the number of people who left for this ^ far exceeds the number who left bc they felt cheated by assignors, though again, I’d acknowledge I’m sure there are a few
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Don't forget the nature of family incomes and dual wage earners has changed DRASTICALLY.
 
umpire16 said:
in baseball and softball at least many schools are flexing start times to accommodate official's personal schedules and it's working very well, so it is possible but in full disclosure, there was
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Interesting point…when I was doing freshman and JV baseball many years ago, I’d show up for a 4:30pm game and the visiting team wasn’t even there yet due to bussing and school dismissal, so I’d sit there for 30-60 mins.

now that my son is doing those levels, he had the same issue this season.

they can’t schedule the game for 530/6pm start but it’s fine to start at 530 when visiting team doesn’t show up until 5 for their 430 game 👍
 
CoachHoversten said:
Interesting point…when I was doing freshman and JV baseball many years ago, I’d show up for a 4:30pm game and the visiting team wasn’t even there yet due to bussing and school dismissal, so I’d sit there for 30-60 mins.

now that my son is doing those levels, he had the same issue this season.

they can’t schedule the game for 530/6pm start but it’s fine to start at 530 when visiting team doesn’t show up until 5 for their 430 game 👍
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None of the flexing is back, it's always forward especially for sub-varsity games.

Teams with lights in our area start at 6 regularly when it gets to mid-April. Some even play on neutral sites for this reason. Different thinking and leadership seems to think of better solutions against the "way we've always done it" grain.
 
The Dock said:
So what’s the furthest mileage the resident officials here have had to do for a regular season game?

One of the games I’ve been to this season had one travel 120 miles / 2 hours one way.
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Well over 100 miles, every year.

I know officials who live in the corners of the state that have traveled over 200 miles for regular season games. They have established a reputation that earned them the opportunity to work those games.
 

The Dock said:
So what’s the furthest mileage the resident officials here have had to do for a regular season game?

One of the games I’ve been to this season had one travel 120 miles / 2 hours one way.
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For four years we have done one regular season game in the Columbus suburbs. Depending on who, that's a 100 miles, +/-10ish.

We will make that journey twice next year.

I've heard of a crew that travels 3 1/2 hours for one game in the Toledo suburbs every years. After the game they hit the casino in Toledo. Saturday they stay overnight on Put-In-Bay.
 
cone said:
To many officials want to advance to quickly and are not prepared for the varsity level, thus they get run out or quit,
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There might be some of that, but around here it is the exact opposite. Officials are getting varsity assignments in year 1 because we simply do not have enough officials. Then they get run out of the avocation because of the negative feedback. I heard of a varsity game last week that had three Class 2 officials, including two that were 1st year.
 
Altor said:
There might be some of that, but around here it is the exact opposite. Officials are getting varsity assignments in year 1 because we simply do not have enough officials. Then they get run out of the avocation because of the negative feedback. I heard of a varsity game last week that had three Class 2 officials, including two that were 1st year.
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OMG. Generally speaking, I'm in NW Ohio. Where are you?
 
Altor said:
I heard of a varsity game last week that had three Class 2 officials, including two that were 1st year.
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Guys I've talked to in SWO have told me that on more than one occasion, there have been 4 class 2's (all 1st year) on a varsity game in each of the last two years.
 
hammer89 said:
Because officiating, by the nature of its schedule, is easier for those whose children are grown or who don’t have any yet. Under 30 and childless or over 50 with the kids grown. The 30-50 age range, while ideal from a performance standpoint, is the hardest to accommodate schedule wise.
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I did 17 years in football. Started at age 21. I was on the country tour my first two years, and would pick up a game an hour away with no problem. Fast forward 6 years and I have a one year old and a pregnant wife. All of sudden i'm not able to just leave at a moments notice. I had buddies who could and they were getting "better" games more often than me but I get it, help them out because they help you out. Speed up to year 17 and now I have 3 kids with three different schedules and a son that's playing football. I had made my mind up that I was done for a few years bc I didn't want to miss his high school years. Once he graduates I'm going back, and I still constantly talk to my buddies and pick their brains on plays and the new rules etc. I track penalties a couple of games a year as well.
 
JackEd said:
I did 17 years in football. Started at age 21. I was on the country tour my first two years, and would pick up a game an hour away with no problem. Fast forward 6 years and I have a one year old and a pregnant wife. All of sudden i'm not able to just leave at a moments notice. I had buddies who could and they were getting "better" games more often than me but I get it, help them out because they help you out. Speed up to year 17 and now I have 3 kids with three different schedules and a son that's playing football. I had made my mind up that I was done for a few years bc I didn't want to miss his high school years. Once he graduates I'm going back, and I still constantly talk to my buddies and pick their brains on plays and the new rules etc. I track penalties a couple of games a year as well.
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What does "Getting Better Games" mean?
 
Since it’s in quotations it’s not based on facts. Guys always say they don’t “get better games” or other guys do “get better games” bc of perceived politics in officiating. I don’t think it’s as vast as most do but it’s certainly there to a tiny extent. I’d rather get a one score game between to teams with bad records rather than the “better game” that’s more hyped but ends up a running clock.
 
OldBaldGuyGaming said:
Maybe I am crazy, but over the last few years, it seems to me that the officiating of these games has just gotten worse and worse. What is the root cause? I am I not talking about the close borderline calls, I am talking about blatant bad calls that get called or blatant calls that just somehow not a single official sees. And why is it taking a huddle of 4 officials for every penalty to make a decision. Last night was a perfect example, I calculated that we had almost 20 minutes of just official stoppage as almost every call took a huddle of officials to spend 2 to 3 minutes to just make a decision on the flag that was thrown.

- Is it lack of training?
- Is it a lack of officials overall?

What gives?
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My opinion...

- The OHSAA needs to go to 6 officials with 2 back judges instead of a center judge ASAP. Older officials can no longer keep up with the speed of the game

- A more organized system needs to be established for less than varsity games. JH/JV assignments are done by local AD's thru word of mouth, associations and conferences need to handle this. It'll allow for more Year 1-2 officials to get games easier & get more experience

- Inexperienced officials are seeing Friday nights way too early anymore. You shouldn't sniff a Friday night until Year 3, it's much more hectic and a younger guy will absolutely get worked by an experienced coach. Also the diversity of formations is considerably higher than in past years.
 
CoachHoversten said:
To say this doesn’t exist would be silly but to say it’s the reason for the shortage is absurd.

you completely ignore the low pay, long hours (when factoring in travel and arriving to site early), start up costs (class, equipment, association dues), and verbal abuse and social media awareness of physical violence (much rarer but happens and are aware of that possibility) all are incredibly more impactful than the small handful of officials are who good enough to advance but don’t.

Assignors work for conferences, you think they want to send garbage officials bc they’re friends? That might have been a thing pre cell phones and social media but certainly is not anymore.
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It's a huge reason to be honest with our newer officials

AllSports12 said:
Nobody on here is claiming politics do not exist. They exist in every profession and avocation. Payrolls around the country are littered with people who have no business working the jobs they work.

What's changed, and I know this from running a business for over 30 years, is the mindset of the generation(s) that came up behind us. I had countless interviews with college graduates that came in thinking they were managment level qualified right out of school. They expected salary, perks, and recognition for having that "onion skin" in their hand......

Same with officiating. The younger generations have the mindset that they should have coming in, what most (remember, there's politics involved) have already earned.

If you are good enough, you'll overcome the politics in anything you do.

Finally, there are plenty of assigners out there who have been advised by their schools (coaches & AD's) that "we don't want to see __________ or _________'s crew work our games anymore." Not a single assigner who has been advised as such has been given a suggested replacement for said crew(s). In fact, when presented with a list of available replacements to work their conference, the answer given by the schools has been, "never mind, let's keep it as it is."
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Sir I respectfully disagree with your viewpoint and stance here. Politics exist, absolutely not like this though. Brand new officials shouldn't be driving 50 miles one way for a JH game. We need to do better to get these Class II's more opportunities on Thursdays & Saturdays
 
JackEd said:
Since it’s in quotations it’s not based on facts. Guys always say they don’t “get better games” or other guys do “get better games” bc of perceived politics in officiating. I don’t think it’s as vast as most do but it’s certainly there to a tiny extent. I’d rather get a one score game between to teams with bad records rather than the “better game” that’s more hyped but ends up a running clock.
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gotcha. I was assuming by what you wrote and the title of the forum that "getting a better game" meant that it was okay to have bad officiating. I understand that these refs are put into tough positions and the coaches are yelling at them. The fans are too far away in my opinion for the refs to even hear them. These refs are causing different outcomes to the games where sometime the better team is losing the game. I was at a youth basketball game and the refs were letting one team travel all the time but would call every travel on the other team. The ref was nice enough to tell us the reason. "Because the one team was better than the other team" What are you kidding me. It was a tournament game and the better team lost because of that.
 
Not so much in HS but in college and Pro replay it over and over and was the call right? A coach told me once in the Pro game of football holding could be called on every play.
 
smurfyeah19 said:
My opinion...

- The OHSAA needs to go to 6 officials with 2 back judges instead of a center judge ASAP. Older officials can no longer keep up with the speed of the game
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There's not enough officials to work 5 man, how are we going to get enough for 6?
smurfyeah19 said:
- A more organized system needs to be established for less than varsity games. JH/JV assignments are done by local AD's thru word of mouth, associations and conferences need to handle this. It'll allow for more Year 1-2 officials to get games easier & get more experience
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AD's assigning at the sub-varsity level is not the norm. Most are handled thru the assigner.
smurfyeah19 said:
- Inexperienced officials are seeing Friday nights way too early anymore. You shouldn't sniff a Friday night until Year 3, it's much more hectic and a younger guy will absolutely get worked by an experienced coach. Also the diversity of formations is considerably higher than in past years.
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Again, there aren't enough officials to cover the games. Schools are very reluctant (as the should be) to schedule games on Thursdays and/or Saturdays. Assigners are forced to use the inexperienced officials out there in order to prevent this from happening.
 
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