Best team likely not going to make the playoffs?

Bolts_Fan said:
So let's take an example of one of these 6-4 teams that is "deserving"... Alliance has wins over 0-9 Minerva, 1-8 Salem, 2-7 Ellet...

I don't get this logic...what makes them deserving? Their win over Lake in week 1? Lake has beat a bunch of very average teams making their record look solid, but they lost their only tough game.,
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If you don’t think beating a good D2 federal league team that is leading their league a good win for a D3 team, I don’t know what to tell you. Lake would beat most D3 teams.
 
PrairieDog said:
At what point do they just have everyone make the playoffs like basketball and baseball? The state would make even more money then! I'd be ok with 12 teams making it, and giving the top four seeds a bye the first week.
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The problem with bye weeks is that it can kill momentum. Look what just happened in the MLB playoffs. 3 of the 4 teams that earned a bye were knocked out in the divisional series. Sure it’s nice to get the rest to heal up, but I would bet a lot of teams would rather play than sit a week.
 
PrairieDog said:
At what point do they just have everyone make the playoffs like basketball and baseball? The state would make even more money then! I'd be ok with 12 teams making it and giving the top four seeds a bye the first week.
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Pretty sure that point (all being allowed in) is coming on hard and fast and soon. I don't agree with it, but they aren't asking me. And money, as you suggest, sure does talk. In a very big and loud voice.
 
devilbuck98 said:
Competitive balance actually started with a "Tradition Factor" that would add students to the count based on success over a number of years (I believe 5 years was the number). I don't remember if it actually failed a statewide vote or if enough schools just complained enough that it was taken out before implementation.
There is a lot of time and effort spent on paperwork associated with Competitive Balance for it to have very little effect on the scope of HS sports.
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I think a tradition factor would probably be more effective than the often-debated competitive balance numbers. If one could & did set good parameters for such a rating over a period of say, a decade (As I used in my example earlier) I think eventually everyone would be where they ought to be, Division wise. What constitutes "good parameters" IDK. Probably need a computer analysis of the playoffs from 1972 to the current season and see what the numbers showed was reasonable, logical and "fair". There will always be complaints.
 
Calif_Eagle said:
I think a tradition factor would probably be more effective than the often-debated competitive balance numbers. If one could & did set good parameters for such a rating over a period of say, a decade (As I used in my example earlier) I think eventually everyone would be where they ought to be, Division wise. What constitutes "good parameters" IDK. Probably need a computer analysis of the playoffs from 1972 to the current season and see what the numbers showed was reasonable, logical and "fair". There will always be complaints.
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Good point. Teams that keep winning will keep moving up until they stop winning. They will equilibrate, and end up where they should be.
 
D-I
Lakota East
Colerain
Stow-Munroe Falls

D-II
Mayfield
North Royalton
Solon
Ross
Amherst Steele
Boardman

D-III
Padua Franciscan
Chaney (5-4) Region 9
Notre Dame-Cathedral Latin (Must beat LC)
West Geauga Region 9
Tallmadge (5-5) Region 9
Bedford (5-5) Region 9
Marlington (6-4) Region 9
Harvey (5-5) Region 9

D-IV
Bishop Fenwick (5-5)
Holy Name
Kenton
Carrollton (6-4)
Elyria Catholic
Fairfield Union (6-4)
Hubbard
Morgan (6-4)
Maysville

D-V
North Union
Ottawa-Glandorf
Orrville
Port Clinton
Coshocton
Mariemont
Smithville (5-5)

D-VI
Wayne Trace
Newark Catholic
Waynedale
Evergreen
Buckeye Trail
Riverdale
Valley Christian

D-VII
St John's
Fort Recovery
Gibsonburg
Mohawk
JFK
Hardin Northern (6-4)
Ada
Fairport Harding
 
I find it very “Rich” that private school backers want to end the public school conferences and leagues and dictate who you have to play if you want to get “in”. They complain about teams not scheduling them thus they can’t get enough W’s to make the playoffs because they have to play amongst themselves 🤣. It’s like their saying you little people get rid of your time honored traditions and league banners and trophy’s so we can make the playoffs. They have nobody to blame except themselves. Pot meet kettle! I foresee them coming full circle and pushing for separate playoffs down the road if this trend keeps happening.
 
Calif_Eagle said:
I think a tradition factor would probably be more effective than the often-debated competitive balance numbers. If one could & did set good parameters for such a rating over a period of say, a decade (As I used in my example earlier) I think eventually everyone would be where they ought to be, Division wise. What constitutes "good parameters" IDK. Probably need a computer analysis of the playoffs from 1972 to the current season and see what the numbers showed was reasonable, logical and "fair". There will always be complaints.
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If your goal is to even out state titles amongst more teams, you are correct. But why would that be a goal?
 
DeadHead said:
I find it very “Rich” that private school backers want to end the public school conferences and leagues and dictate who you have to play if you want to get “in”. They complain about teams not scheduling them thus they can’t get enough W’s to make the playoffs because they have to play amongst themselves 🤣. It’s like their saying you little people get rid of your time honored traditions and league banners and trophy’s so we can make the playoffs. They have nobody to blame except themselves. Pot meet kettle! I foresee them coming full circle and pushing for separate playoffs down the road if this trend keeps happening.
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I don't think it's quite as mean-spirited as you suggest. No one is calling publics "little people." Speaking for myself only, I see this from both sides having kids in both closed-enrollment public school and in parochial.

Specifically, no complaints about Padua getting left out this year. Hard to make the case at 4-6 especially when they had the ball on Walsh's 1 yard line last night with 3 min. to go and down 3 points. Had they stuck that in or not blown a lead in 2-3 other games, they'd be in. Gotta be better even with a brutal schedule like they had. That said, I bet Padua is better than some of the 16 that got playoff berths.

Maybe you're right, the regular seasons are becoming their own pre-playoff playoffs with privates playing privates and publics playing publics. Maybe that's just the natural evolution of things. I get it, privates have advantages but let's not kid ourselves, those advantages aren't distributed evenly. St. Ignatius and St. Edward draw kids from multiple counties and maybe even states; Padua and Holy Name get most of their kids from Parma and cities that border Parma. Put another way, I understand the hesitancy in publics scheduling the former or even being placed in the same Division or Region as the former, but not the latter.
 
serpico said:
If your goal is to even out state titles amongst more teams, you are correct. But why would that be a goal?
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I think some teams are playing in Regions that they are clearly better than the others in those Regions. Despite their enrollment. I think using enrollment only is misleading. My simple and only goal would be to see each team placed in the most competitive spot. This is NOT a private-public issue in my mind. I didn't put it out there for that reason anyway. There are public schools that would surely be affected too.

I have no goals re: State Titles. Wasn't even thinking of that. Was just thinking of even and reasonably fair competition.

Besides, I'm not holding my breath that they will ever actually DO this. It is really just more of an abstraction, and a good idea in my mind. But I can imagine the war over criteria and the unhappiness. So I'm sure the present system will prevail.
 
None. If you cant’ make the playoffs when 16 teams per region make it, you are not any good. Quite frankly there are a lot of terrible teams that make it and ZERO good teams that don’t.
 
pugluv said:
None. If you cant’ make the playoffs when 16 teams per region make it, you are not any good. Quite frankly there are a lot of terrible teams that make it and ZERO good teams that don’t.
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A few teams that made it over Gibsonburg in Region 26 that GBurg would be 3-4 touchdown favorites over.

Their losses were to teams that went 9-1, 9-1, 10-0, 8-1 and 6-4
 
pugluv said:
None. If you cant’ make the playoffs when 16 teams per region make it, you are not any good. Quite frankly there are a lot of terrible teams that make it and ZERO good teams that don’t.
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Fair take except there's scant evidence that the Harbin system predicts the best 8 or best 16 due to, in large part, schools hiding out in weak conferences. Does anyone really believe Westlake in D2 R6 is worthy of a playoff berth with a home game? I'd bet $100 that Brecksville, who plays in a MUCH tougher conference, will put a running clock on Westlake.

This isn't just a private/public thing. Norton in D3 R10 racked up 7 wins against D4 and lower teams yet earns a 2 or 3 seed.

Agree, with 16 getting in, it's hard to argue for teams with 4-6 records claiming they deserve a playoff slot. Still, it's worth questioning the Harbin math whether it's 8 or 16 getting in.
 
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raising4daughters said:
Fair take except there's scant evidence that the Harbin system predicts the best 8 or best 16 due to, in large part, schools hiding out in weak conferences. Does anyone really believe Westlake in D2 R6 is worthy of a playoff berth with a home game? I'd bet $100 that Brecksville, who plays in a MUCH tougher conference, will put a running clock on Westlake.

This isn't just a private/public thing. Norton in D3 R10 racked up 7 wins against D4 and lower teams yet earns a 2 or 3 seed.

Agree, with 16 getting in, it's hard to argue for teams with 4-6 records claiming they deserve a playoff slot. Still, it's worth questioning the Harbin math whether it's 8 or 16 getting in.
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Your daily Norton sucks or Medina Buckeye sucks affirmation. Glad you got it out of your system....
 
@raising4daughters
What if a team plays the the 10 best teams in the state and loses in 3OT to all 10 by 1 point? That team would be 0-10 and miss the playoffs, yet obviously be on par with the top 10 teams in the state.
Records do not mean anything and Harbin points do not mean anything
A 0-10 team could easily beat a 10-0 team with a running clock...
 
Oil Filter said:
At 16 teams per region, there is no legit title contender missing out. Nothing else matters.
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I can think of a few teams that had they lost one additional game they would have missed the playoffs entirely despite being legit title contenders. One such team is the defending state champion, and their only loses are to a 9-1 team and two 8-2 teams, who in turn have only lost to another defending state champion, Avon, Massillon, and 2 other quality programs.
 
Because they've lost too many to qualify. Better luck next year.

BTW, who is this team? How many teams with only 3 losses are sitting out this year?
 
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Oil Filter said:
Because they've lost too many to qualify. Better luck next year.
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That isn't answering why they aren't capable and don't have a legitimate chance of winning the championship this year. So if team lost to all the following by 1 point in 3OT
St. Edward, Archbishop Moeller, Archbishop Hoban, Massillon, Avon, Central Catholic, Ursuline, Princeton and Gahana Lincoln
But defeats IMG academy by over 50 points
You would say they aren't a legitimate state title contender in D-IV, D-V, etc?
 
I'd say that even pretending to consider an absurd hypothetical springing from your drug-induced hallucination would be intellectual malpractice.
 
Oil Filter said:
BTW, who is this team? How many teams with only 3 losses are sitting out this year?
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A team that has only 3 losses to a 9-1 team and two 8-2 teams and won the state championship last year only barely made the playoffs would have completely missed the playoffs if they would have lost one more game. Mind you that 2 of the 3 losses were due to having 4 or 5 of their best players injured at the time.
No 3 loss teams missed the playoffs, but the defending state champions nearly missed the playoffs, but 4 teams with only 4 losses missed the playoffs in their region.
 
simkon said:
A team that has only 3 losses to a 9-1 team and two 8-2 teams and won the state championship last year only barely made the playoffs would have completely missed the playoffs if they would have lost one more game. Mind you that 2 of the 3 losses were due to having 4 or 5 of their best players injured at the time.
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1. Name that team.
2. "Would have completely missed" means they got in.
 
Oil Filter said:
1. Name that team.
2. "Would have completely missed" means they got in.
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Yes they got in but only barely, like I said if they would have lost a 4th game they would have missed despite having a strength if schedule in the top 3 for their division.
 
Toughest schedules in D-III Week 0
1. Central Catholic
2. Canfield
3. Ursuline
4. Dover
5. Louisville
6. Chardon
7. Howland
8. Padua Franciscan
9. Tiffin Columbian
 
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