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chs1971 said:
Nobody charts the line to gain, down & distance, whatever.

Five officials should have known and communicated that 1st and goal had become 4th and goal.

By rule, the chains should have been moved far enough off the sideline, or placed on the ground, to prevent confusion by anyone in attendance.

The chain crew is supposed to act in a nonpartisan manner and can be replaced if they fail to do so.

Where the breakdown was I have no idea.
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Thanks for the reply, I had never seen it before. It didn’t affect the outcome of the game, it just prompted the question I had about keeping track of situations. Always appreciate the responses.
 
This play was mentioned in a game thread.

Team A attempts FG near the end of the half. Team B blocks it and begins returning it for what was likely to be a TD (nobody from Team A in a position to make a play on the runner). Official mistakes the play for a PAT try and blows the play dead after Team B has gained possession. On the inadvertent whistle, Team B is given the ball at the spot of recovery and elects to take a knee to end the half. What are the options on an indavertent whistle in this particular situation? I assume the options are presented to Team B rather than Team A since Team B was in possession of the ball when the inadvertent whistle occurred?
 
Mr. Slippery said:
This play was mentioned in a game thread.

Team A attempts FG near the end of the half. Team B blocks it and begins returning it for what was likely to be a TD (nobody from Team A in a position to make a play on the runner). Official mistakes the play for a PAT try and blows the play dead after Team B has gained possession. On the inadvertent whistle, Team B is given the ball at the spot of recovery and elects to take a knee to end the half. What are the options on an indavertent whistle in this particular situation? I assume the options are presented to Team B rather than Team A since Team B was in possession of the ball when the inadvertent whistle occurred?
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With no penalties on the play, the option is given to the team is possession at the time of the inadvertent whistle…
Take the results of the play, or replay the down.

things get a lot more hairy if there was a penalty.
 
Question came up about how high school handles a conversion safety. NCAA and NFL awards one point. What happens in high school if Defense on a try gets a turn-over in field of play, then gets tackled in the end-zone?
 
eastisbest said:
Question came up about how high school handles a conversion safety. NCAA and NFL awards one point. What happens in high school if Defense on a try gets a turn-over in field of play, then gets tackled in the end-zone?
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Not a ref here, but I am fairly certain the play is dead as soon as the defense gains possession on a point after try under NFHS rules.
 
eastisbest said:
Question came up about how high school handles a conversion safety. NCAA and NFL awards one point. What happens in high school if Defense on a try gets a turn-over in field of play, then gets tackled in the end-zone?
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I need to expand on this because I didn't see the question of the 1pt safety addressed. As noted prior, once the ball is possessed by B on a try (or in overtime) the ball becomes dead. Also note..... B can never score on a try.

That said, yes a 1pt safety awarded to Team A is a possibility under NFHS Rules. It occurs only when on a try Team B provides a new force to a live loose football into the end zone and Team A then possesses the football in the end zone. Here's an example....

Case Book - 8.3.3 SITUATION A:
During a try, a fumble by A1 is nearly at rest on the 3-yard line when a muff by B1 is judged by the game official to be a new force causing the ball to go into B's end zone where B2 recovers and: (a) downs the ball in the end zone; or (b) advances to his 10-yardline.

RULING:
The try ends and the ball becomes dead when B2 recovers. In any ordinary down, such a dead ball would be a safety, therefore, one point is scored for A in both (a) and (b)

The kicker here is "judged by the game official to be a new force causing the ball to go into B's end zone"


Sorry for the delay in getting to this.
 
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AllSports12 said:
I need to expand on this because I didn't see the question of the 1pt safety addressed. As noted prior, once the ball is possessed by B on a try (or in overtime) the ball becomes dead. Also note..... B can never score on a try.

That said, yes a 1pt safety awarded to Team A is a possibility under NFHS Rules. It occurs only when on a try Team B provides a new force to a live loose football into the end zone and Team A then possesses the football in the end zone. Here's an example....

Case Book - 8.3.3 SITUATION A:
During a try, a fumble by A1 is nearly at rest on the 3-yard line when a muff by B1 is judged by the game official to be a new force causing the ball to go into B's end zone where B2 recovers and: (a) downs the ball in the end zone; or (b) advances to his 10-yardline.

RULING:
The try ends and the ball becomes dead when B2 recovers. In any ordinary down, such a dead ball would be a safety, therefore, one point is scored for A in both (a) and (b)

The kicker here is "judged by the game official to be a new force causing the ball to go into B's end zone"


Sorry for the delay in getting to this.
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Can you help me understand situation (b). What is the relevance of returning the ball to the 10 yard line and why would that also be awarded as a safety if Team B returned the ball out of the end zone?
Maybe I am misunderstanding.
This is an interesting rule that I have never heard of, appreciate the insight.
 
The ball was dead when b recovered in the end zone. Technically, there was no “return”.

since the ball was dead in the end zone in the possession of team b and since the force that put it in the end zone was from team b, it is a safety.
 
Am I correct in assuming that a fumble can't be advanced in the final 2 minutes except by the player who fumbled? The QB on my son's team fumbled with about 45 seconds left in the game and it was picked up by a offensive lineman and he got tackled at the 1. Of course, we all wanted the big man to score but I kept thinking that the ball couldn't be advanced.
The opposing coach never questioned it as it wouldn't have affected the outcome of the game. Our team just let the clock run out on the next play because we were winning.
 
SPD7171 said:
Am I correct in assuming that a fumble can't be advanced in the final 2 minutes except by the player who fumbled? The QB on my son's team fumbled with about 45 seconds left in the game and it was picked up by a offensive lineman and he got tackled at the 1. Of course, we all wanted the big man to score but I kept thinking that the ball couldn't be advanced.
The opposing coach never questioned it as it wouldn't have affected the outcome of the game. Our team just let the clock run out on the next play because we were winning.
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No, you are not.

Under NFHS Rules, there are no restrictions on advancing fumbles. Should there be a "planned loose ball", no player from Team A may advance that loose ball in the vicinity of the snapper.
 
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SPD7171 said:
Am I correct in assuming that a fumble can't be advanced in the final 2 minutes except by the player who fumbled? The QB on my son's team fumbled with about 45 seconds left in the game and it was picked up by a offensive lineman and he got tackled at the 1. Of course, we all wanted the big man to score but I kept thinking that the ball couldn't be advanced.
The opposing coach never questioned it as it wouldn't have affected the outcome of the game. Our team just let the clock run out on the next play because we were winning.
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Didn't that happen in the Bengals Steelers game? Burrow got strip sacked and Perine recovered for the offense and ran it forward, but they disallowed the run. NFL-only rule?
 
oxat622 said:
Didn't that happen in the Bengals Steelers game? Burrow got strip sacked and Perine recovered for the offense and ran it forward, but they disallowed the run. NFL-only rule?
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NFL and NCAA fumble rules are both different from NFHS (and different from each other), and more restrictive.

As already stated, HS football has no restrictions on advancing a fumble.
 
Does anyone think we will see some of the lower level rules/options that we find in JV/Freshmen applied to Varsity in the near future? For example, in the JV if coaches agree to not have kickoffs, then they do not have to. At the Freshmen level there are no kickoffs and you have the option not to punt at any time during the game. Instead of a punt, the ball exchanges possession 35 yards away from the previous LOS. The "no punt rule" makes it easier for coaches to play field position, but I have talked to some refs that are a little murky on the rule. I also cannot seem to find it in the rule book. So is it just unwritten?
 
LCL said:
Does anyone think we will see some of the lower level rules/options that we find in JV/Freshmen applied to Varsity in the near future? For example, in the JV if coaches agree to not have kickoffs, then they do not have to. At the Freshmen level there are no kickoffs and you have the option not to punt at any time during the game. Instead of a punt, the ball exchanges possession 35 yards away from the previous LOS. The "no punt rule" makes it easier for coaches to play field position, but I have talked to some refs that are a little murky on the rule. I also cannot seem to find it in the rule book. So is it just unwritten?
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It's not in the NFHS Rule book, nor is it a modification to the OHSAA Football Regulations. It's a directive from the Director of Officiating and the Director of Development for Football.

The reason why officials are murky on the "rule" is because the initial instructions to the officials were murky. After much consternation, it now boils down to this....

......If both coaches agree that punts will not be executed, they will decide how the ball will be placed. It could vary game to game, week to week. (much like summer baseball.... the flavor of the day) Officials have no say whatsoever in this decision. Pesonally, I have no problem with the last part, as we don't have any say in the rules. However, I wish the directive carried a specific procedure to handle this.

It won't happen at the varsity level unless it becomes an adoption approved by the NFHS.
 
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AllSports12 said:
It's not in the NFHS Rule book, nor is it a modification to the OHSAA Football Regulations. It's a directive from the Director of Officiating and the Director of Development for Football.

The reason why officials are murky on the "rule" is because the initial instructions to the officials were murky. After much consternation, it now boils down to this....

......If both coaches agree that punts will not be executed, they will decide how the ball will be placed. It could vary game to game, week to week. (much like summer baseball.... the flavor of the day) Officials have no say whatsoever in this decision. Pesonally, I have no problem with the last part, as we don't have any say in the rules. However, I wish the directive carried a specific procedure to handle this.

It won't happen at the varsity level unless it becomes an adoption approved by the NFHS.
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Since it is all "murky" was there a directive for clock operation on the "punt"? We experienced this for the first time this weekend and it resulted in the refs yelling up to the confused clock operator to run the clock while they marked off the yardage on the fictitious play.
It's quite confusing when you go from a third down incompletion to the refs walking down the field making a winding motion with no explanation.
 
devilbuck98 said:
Since it is all "murky" was there a directive for clock operation on the "punt"?
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Zero.

It's up to the coaches when they decide before the game.
devilbuck98 said:
We experienced this for the first time this weekend and it resulted in the refs yelling up to the confused clock operator to run the clock while they marked off the yardage on the fictitious play.
It's quite confusing when you go from a third down incompletion to the refs walking down the field making a winding motion with no explanation.
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Which is why I noted that personally, I have no problem with a rule/regulation/option regarding punts at the lower levels. I just wish there was a uniform procedure to address it.
 
AllSports12 said:
Zero.

It's up to the coaches when they decide before the game.

Which is why I noted that personally, I have no problem with a rule/regulation/option regarding punts at the lower levels. I just wish there was a uniform procedure to address it.
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Honestly, I don't see a problem with taking 10 seconds off the clock, marking off the yardage, then changing possession. I am also under the assumption that a coach can choose to or not to punt physically at any time during the game. Crazy.
 
LCL said:
I am also under the assumption that a coach can choose to or not to punt physically at any time during the game. Crazy.
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Wrong assumption. If the coaches agree to not punt at the start, then they must both agree that they want to punt mid game. If either of them want to punt to start the game, we are punting unless they both agree midgame to just walk off the yardage. The whole thing is a mess.
 
LCL said:
Honestly, I don't see a problem with taking 10 seconds off the clock, marking off the yardage, then changing possession.
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We don't care what the rule is. Our gripe is allowing different parameters to be set by the coaches prior to every game.

There's been too many cases of silly arguments prior to the game.
 
Rules question ... if there is a running clock. When does the clock actually stop? From what I have been told, there are really 4 reasons the clock will still stop. 1- Team charged time out. 2- Injury Timeout 3- Officials Time Out 4- Change of Possession. What is the ruling on these?
 
HSSR091721 said:
Rules question ... if there is a running clock. When does the clock actually stop? From what I have been told, there are really 4 reasons the clock will still stop. 1- Team charged time out. 2- Injury Timeout 3- Officials Time Out 4- Change of Possession. What is the ruling on these?
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There are 6 instances in which the clock stops under the OHSAA Point Differential Rule ....

- an official's time out for an injured player
- a charged time out is called
- a change of possession occurs at the end of a down
- at the end of a period
- a score occurs
- an extended delay

The game clock will start on the ready for play after each of the above
 
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