2012 Water Polo

Really?

rjones said:
No team in Ohio from the recent past compares to UA.
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An argument for the UA program can be made, but he's talking about the 2012 UA team. I don't think this year's UA team could have beaten any of the top 4 teams last year including last years UA team let alone any of the good teams from the recent past. And then he says: that doesn't mean they weren't obviously the best team in Ohio this year, so they obviously deserve the state title. Not taking anything away from the state title win, just from the quality of play.
 
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i disagree, this ua team would handle the last years comfortably with the speed that the guys played with, and just being a year older and better, remember they had 5 starters back!
 
rjones said:
Let me get this straight... UA only won in Ohio because of the HUGE talent drop. The fact that they were far and away the strongest swimmers in years, had the best field players in recent years, the strongest goalie in memory had nothing to do with it. But you're not "going to take anything away from them." In reality the reason that "the huge talent drop" seemed to exist is because of how good UA was in comparison. No team in Ohio from the recent past compares to UA. They are a team without weakness!
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You cannot back up any of that. They didn't have "far and away" the strongest swimmers in years, look at St. Francis the last 2 years with Zimmerman and DiSalle. They did not have the strongest field players in recent years if you look at last year with Matulis, Rabe, and Cogan, 2 years ago with Swansan and 3 years ago with Trevor Johnson and Dan Matulis (who happened to be elected to the 18&U national team). Their goalie was strong, but stronger than Choueki, or Trotier from a couple years ago? I'm not saying that they did not deserve to win, they were by far and away the best team in the state this year and clearly deserved to win. Im just saying that if they had to match up against a team like st charles or milford last year, their road would have been a lot tougher. To say that no other team in the recent past even compares to them is completely outrageous, especially when you have the St. Charles teams from the last 2 years and the Milford team from 4 years ago
 
swimmer24 said:
i disagree, this ua team would handle the last years comfortably with the speed that the guys played with, and just being a year older and better, remember they had 5 starters back!
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But the two players they lost were the best two on the team. Andrew Rabe and Sean Neri combined for 17 out of UA's 25 goals last year at the state tournament. Personally, I don't think just a single additional year of experience for their starters can make up for that loss. Last year's team was significantly better.
 
Talent Drop

rjones said:
In reality the reason that "the huge talent drop" seemed to exist is because of how good UA was in comparison.
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And here's another validation of the talent drop: every single player on the all-state lists last year (Not counting HM because those aren't voted on) was a senior. 100%, 20/20. This is unprecedented. In fact, for the all-state list, it is on average (from 2001-2010) 61% seniors compared to the 100% seniors in 2011. Some cold, hard facts for you Mr. Jones.
 
Looks like rjones has people worked up again. UA is to be congratulated on a great season. They truly were dominant. As to their place in history, rjones may have overstated it a little bit. Although their swimming skills and speed are undeniable, it is true that 2 of the stronger players from last year's team graduated. However, a year of growth and experience can be significant. The juniors from 2011 are each stronger and better in 2012. Still rjones too quickly dismisses the premier teams of the past several years. The last couple of StF team had as strong if not stronger swimming. And the SC teams of 2010 & 11 were very good from the field and defensively. Indeed the 2010 SC team was smothering on defense and UA should know as they couldn't get the ball inside of 5 meters in the 2010 semifinal game. These teams along with the Milford teams of the last 3 or 4 years would certainly be competitive with if not superior to this year's UA squad.
 
Comparison

This argument and thread is as ridiculous as RJones' comments. You will never know. It's disappointing and unfair to criticize this 2012 UA team after such a great year. As an insider to past UA teams (not this years) I can say that this years team was better than last years AND probably the 2009 State championship Team. They were just more experienced and talented.

The arguments that they lost 2 good players from a year ago or that no teams had All Ohio returning kids is silly. That happens every year for them. They had 5 returning starters. This years team had everything (great goalie, fast team, lefty center, and tight defense..). They also played very well together. Rabe was great but this team is far better than last years. I bet if you ask any of UA's coaches they will say this years team was better than their last 4 teams (including 2009). Down year in Ohio or not, but this was a superior team. The interesting thing is how the won - on defense. Sycamore was only able to score 15 goals in 5 games against UA. No team scored more than 9 in a varsity game against them, including Rockford (1st game) (the 2011 team lost to Rockford 23-5). Trace is a junior and compares to Matulis, Cogan and Rabe, now. I saw him a couple times this year and nobody could stop him. He was the best player in Ohio, this year.

Hate UA all you want but what goes overlooked is that they have finished in the top 3 in the State for 7 years straight - the last 2 years losing to SC in the semi's by 1 and 2 goals and this UA team was much better than that team, all around.

If he retires as he has said (again), this will go down as Roberts's best team and a team that can be compared equally to any Ohio State Champion.
 
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GoldenPolo said:
It's disappointing and unfair to criticize this 2012 UA team after such a great year. As an insider to past UA teams (not this years) I can say that this years team was better than last years AND probably the 2009 State championship Team. They were just more experienced and talented.

The arguments that they lost 2 good players from a year ago or that no teams had All Ohio returning kids is silly. That happens every year for them. They had 5 returning players. This years team had everything (great goalie, fast team, lefty center, and tight defense..). They also played very well together. Rabe was great but this team is far better than last years. I bet if you ask any of UA's coaches they will say this years team was superior to their last 4 teams (including 2009). Down year in Ohio or not, but this was a superior team. The interesting thing is how the won - on defense. Sycamore was only able to take 5 shots in the first half Saturday and scored 15 goals in 5 games against UA. No team scored more than 9 in a varsity game against them, including Rockford (1st game) and then again without one of UA's top players (the 2011 team lost to Rockford 23-5). Trace is a junior and compares to Matulis, Cogan and Rabe, now. I saw him a couple times this year and nobody could stop him. He was the best player in Ohio, this year.

Hate UA all you want but what goes overlooked is that they have finished in the top 3 in the State for 7 years straight - the last 2 years losing to SC in the semi's by 1 and 2 goals and this UA team was much better than that team, all around.

If he retires as he has said (again), this will go down as Roberts's best team and a team that can be compared equally to any Ohio State Champion.
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Thanks for making my point. As I stated earlier, UA is the best aquatics program in the state - including St. Xavier. They have swept the water polo titles and now will sweep the swimming titles! The single word that describes the program is DOMINANT!
 
Congrats the UA polo teams for a great season.

When is the most Dominant aquatics program going to build a pool to support their talent? Come on alums, enough "yappin" get to building.

I am not intending to hijack the thread, but my off-season thoughts turn to improving the sport and the first step is to improve the facilities. The North Region added a nice new venue in the OWU pool, but Denison has a new deep pool, Kenyon has a deep pool and there needs to be deep water in Columbus. This is a polo community effort. Mason's pool was not driven by the city council was it? I am sure that Mark Sullivan took time out of his day to make their beautiful pool planning a priority and look what they have! A championship pool that works for polo and swimming.
 
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You are so right preeder! Facilities are the key! And as you correctly point out the colleges in the Central Ohio area have appropriate facilities in place. UC, Miami, and StX all are deep water venues along with Mason in the Southwest. In the Northwest UT & BG would be deep water pools. The water polo community needs to step up and do what is necessary to get access. Without question the championship tournaments need to be in deep water. But schools need to work out arrangements for inseason tournaments as well. Michigan has in the last 5 to 10 years passed Ohio up in high school water polo. Our best teams are no longer competitive with the very top Michigan teams. And the number of schools playing water polo Michigan is nearly double the number there are in Ohio. Sure UA, the Worthingtons, Milford and SC can beat the lesser Michigan teams, but when was the last time they beat Rockford, Pioneer, Huron or the other elite teams? And the reason for that is the facilities. It wasn't that long ago that Pioneer & Huron routinely came to the Ohio Cup for the competition they got there. Now, as things are presently, there is no hope of them returning. They, and even the lesser schools, understandably stay in Michigan. And who can blame them? The competition and facilities even at the smaller week end tournaments in Michigan are superior to the Ohio Cup, which is the best inseason tournament in Ohio. Don't get me wrong, the Ohio Cup is a wonderful tournament and the Worthingtons should be admired and congratulated for the improvements they have made to the tournament. Introducing both a JV tournament and the College cup are wonderful additions that will continue to benefit Ohio high school water polo. And as neat as it is to have the tournament outside, the pools unfortunately are just inadequate if the game is to advance in Ohio. Maybe a start would be to move the Ohio Cup to another venue - a full size, deep water outdoor pool or OSU, Kenyon, or Denison where full size, deep water indoor pools exist. Sure its going to cost something for those facilities, but maybe the colleges could be convinced to discount their fees in the interest of growing the sport (and in the long term creating a market for use of their facility). I understand that OWU made its pool available at a very reasonable cost when St Charles had a conflict for the Friday games. Bottom line, build or use the facilities in place and the improvement in quality of play and growth in the number of teams will result.
 
i think there is some overreaction here...yes ohio teams rarely if ever compete with rockford, but then again neither do michigan teams!
ua lost by one or two to huron and pioneer this year, both times without one of their top players (long...once for jr nats swimming, the other for a college visit), surely they beat them with him, sc, milford and the good michigan teams have competed well throughout the years...heck 10 days ago sf tied pioneer!
michigan is ahead, it is because of pools, but ohio is ahead on swimming with the same pools, the gap is not nearly as big as some are stating though when you take rockford out of the equation
 
swimmer24 said:
i think there is some overreaction here...yes ohio teams rarely if ever compete with rockford, but then again neither do michigan teams!
ua lost by one or two to huron and pioneer this year, both times without one of their top players (long...once for jr nats swimming, the other for a college visit), surely they beat them with him, sc, milford and the good michigan teams have competed well throughout the years...heck 10 days ago sf tied pioneer!
michigan is ahead, it is because of pools, but ohio is ahead on swimming with the same pools, the gap is not nearly as big as some are stating though when you take rockford out of the equation
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Regardless of the size of the gap, the fact remains that water polo is better established in Michigan. They are ahead and its because of the facilities. In contrast the available pools are sufficent for swimming. If instead high schools in Ohio only had 20 yard pools do you think that Ohio would be competitive with other states in swimming? Playing championship water polo tournaments in shallow pools is like having the district swimming meets in 4 lane 20 yard pools. It just isn't acceptable and it is hindering the growth and development of the sport.
 
All of this talk about facilities being the reason why michigan is more advanced than ohio in polo is complete overreaction. Yes they are important, but having really nice pools is not as important as everyone is making it out to be. If they were as important as everyone is making them out to be, Mason would be winning the state championship every single year because they are the only team with an all deep pool. Facilities is not what is hindering the growth in Ohio, it is the coaching and the coaching experience. I by no means intend to bash any coaches but look, besides Geoff Gear what coaches have coaching or playing experience outside of Ohio? That is what we need more than anything. We need coaches to attend more clinics and camps, participate in the midwest ODP system (which I heard is being more involved in Ohio), talk to more college coaches, attend tournaments outside of Ohio in the offseason and in season, and take club teams to the J.O. qualifier and to J.O. in California. What the Moose club team did this summer taking a team to the J.O. qualifier in Chicago was a huge leap in the right direction and I give them huge props for doing that. We need more of these types of programs and more players and coaches participating in them. And until that happens Ohio is never going to be at the level Michigan or Chicago is at, no matter how good our facilities are.
 
poloplayer, your points are well taken. But how do teams learn to compete and play in pools that are narrow, short, and shallow? The typical game played in Ohio differs significantly from the game played in a full size pool because of the spacing. All the suggestions you have made are valid and should be done, but that doesn't mean that teams should not seek out better facilities. Using the swimming analogy that was referenced before, you would have difficulties training a championship swimmer or team in a back yard pool. You're correct that the facilities in and of themselves will not change the caliber of water polo in Ohio but they will provide the opportunity to do so. This is an exciting sport that needs exposure. To paraphrase Kevin Cosner, "Build it and they will come!"
 
I completely agree with poloplayer. Better facilities would be nice, but they are not necessary to get better at water polo. You can still learn fundamentals like passing, shooting and one on one defense. You can still learn plays and execute them the same way you would in a deep pool. The only real difference I can see is not being used to swimming as far and for that, you can just condition more. And the analogy of a 20 yard swim pool doesn't make any sense either. It's swimming. It doesn't matter how far you swim as long as your fast. If that were the case then why isn't everyone who practices in short course yards just awful at long course meters. Do you have to practice in a long course pool to be good at long course? no.
 
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rjones said:
Thanks for making my point. As I stated earlier, UA is the best aquatics program in the state - including St. Xavier. They have swept the water polo titles and now will sweep the swimming titles! The single word that describes the program is DOMINANT!
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I understand your enthusiasm, but stating that UA has the best aquatics program in the state and will win the boys state swimming title is a bit much.
 
danield9tqh said:
I completely agree with poloplayer. Better facilities would be nice, but they are not necessary to get better at water polo. You can still learn fundamentals like passing, shooting and one on one defense. You can still learn plays and execute them the same way you would in a deep pool. The only real difference I can see is not being used to swimming as far and for that, you can just condition more. And the analogy of a 20 yard swim pool doesn't make any sense either. It's swimming. It doesn't matter how far you swim as long as your fast. If that were the case then why isn't everyone who practices in short course yards just awful at long course meters. Do you have to practice in a long course pool to be good at long course? no.
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Not sure your short course to long course argument holds water here. There are lots of examples of great short course swimmers who are not great long course swimmers. As we have just come off of a state championship team of great swimmers who distanced themselves from other teams in a deep pool. It does make a difference, and so does better coaching and so does ODP etc. . .

My original point was not to differentiate Michigan from Ohio players, but to make a call for better, deeper pools. Who does not want a new pool to train in?
 
Lots of good talk going on here. Wanted to weigh in on a few things. I don't claim to be all knowing. Or always correct. But this is what I think about all the time. And love to rationally discuss these thoughts. Pardon grammar - I'm on an iPad. Sorry.

1. Congrats to all the teams that made states and a big tip of the hat to UA. Outstanding season and a complete showcase of their strengths at states.

2. Lots of talk about this being their best team / most dominant performance by a team / could match up vs other champs / couldn't match up vs others / etc etc. I think this was a very good UA team. Losing 2 top players and returning 5 starters including a goalie usually means a better team will be in the water the following year. I don't know if their highs were as high, but there definitely was not much in terms of weaknesses to this years team. Was is the most dominant performance in a season? Possibly when compared to the other teams in the state. But there's been some pretty dominant performances. The late 90s team of STF had a big gap between them and the next best. Kilbourne 07. Milford 08. SC in 10 had enough to win states, graduate a bunch and win states the following year - that's an amazing amount of depth there. There have been some pretty dominant performances. This UA squad is up in those regards. They soundly won vs everyone in Ohio and did well vs the 4-10 ranked Michigan teams. UA had a good team - but they didn't beat up on strong Ohio this year. It might be the biggest gap between 1 & 2 though. Its not the best #1 we've had. But it might be the biggest gap between the top 2.

3. How do we compete with Michgian / Chicago / etc. This is where we need to put the most effort going forward. We need to start kids playing younger. Competitively. The facilities don't mean much. The best Ohio kid we've seen came from a shallow deep pool. You can get good with lower facilities. You can't get good in 3 years of playing though. You can't get good with 3 months of polo a year. You can't have depth with Under 15 teams.

We need more age group polo programs. Moose did a jr high team this year. We might even enter that team into the JV Ohio cup next year. Maybe. But we're competing against teams like CPD that have kids playing in HS that are in their 8th year. That's pretty standard for good Michigan teams too. ODP is good. It's not the end all be all. It's important for development, but not more so than experience. We need more coaches. We need more pool time.

Say right now we had several Jr groups (5th-8th graders) in each city - Imagine how good we would be in 10 years. We would be up there with Michigan and Chicago. It would allow coaches to teach polo in high school. Not have to split time between teaching kids how to tread and how to read a defense at the same time.

More tournaments against good teams is important too. The JO Qualifier was HUGE for growth. But we need to play those teams consistently. Improving our quality will bring more outside teams here because they will get challenges.

We need better officiating. Traveling to Chicago or Penn or Mich - our kids are not used to the level of play from a physical standpoint. They think any contact will lead to a foul. We have too many poor officials here. And the consistency is bad too. Is it getting better? I don't know. But I know when we travel anywhere out of Ohio we don't get upset about calls with the regularity that we do here. And the kids love the games too. It's hindering our growth. Maybe as much as a lack of experience is. This is another reason good out of state teams don't travel here more often.

4. How to increase more teams? Convince the athletic directors that WP = $ for the school, not a loss. We're hoping that the addition of the Jr High team with moose can give us a blueprint to adding a Moose HS team open to any schools in Cincinnati. Ideally we get enough kids from the same school and branch off and make them a separate team. Do we have enough coaches to do this? Maybe? But if AMDG can add a girls team - and have success - then it bodes well for there to be more. Dayton adding a team is huge too. Adding more creates more potential for others to be added.

Would be nice to see OHSAA commit to polo and kick in money to make it happen. I thought I read somewhere that this is what Illinois did. And now they have 70+ teams in Chicago alone. Or win a tobacco lawsuit :)


Point is - we need to do a lot to get Ohio as good in polo as it is in swimming. We're trending in the right direction. In the last 5 years or so we've added 6 teams - added several masters programs - added club teams - a jr high team - we even have a foundation with their intent to grow the soort. Give it time. We're getting there.

Thoughts?
 
Agree with you that facilities, although would be very nice, do not mean very much. Look at what Mercyhurst University did this weekend, they finished 2nd at Southerns beating John Hopkins and Princeton while I they only have a 6 lane shallow deep pool I believe. Getting good mostly has to do with coaching and playing experience.

This is where mukisa is completely right. You need more than just high school playing experience. Kids need to start playing much younger and need to keep playing outside of just polo season. I know a lot of you like to compare to Rockford so lets look at them. They have a program that allows kids in their area to start playing when they are 12&U, they have a club team which most of their good players play with over the summer, and their club team travels to tournaments all over the country giving their players exposure to all sorts of high level playing. We need more programs like this and what Moose sounds like it is starting to become to start kids younger and keep them playing throughout the year. Traveling to tournaments outside of Ohio in season would also be really beneficial. Lets face it: are you really going to get that much better by playing the same teams 4-5 times throughout the season? Probably not.

Also agree on the officiating comment. As someone who has recently played at high level tournaments throughout the country, let me tell you the way the game is played... and called, is completely different than in Ohio. The game is played at a much more physical level and it is called that way too. It makes playing the game a lot better and a lot less frustrating. But with that in mind you will still find bad officiating throughout the country, yes even California.

It is fantastic to see that Ohio is adding a few more high school teams, especially with the addition of a Dayton area team. Whats up with Cleveland though? Its kind of crazy to think that they have a college that plays polo but no high school team in the area.
 
mukisa & poloplayer, you make good points. However, you dismiss the issue of facilities too easily. While it may be unrealistic at this point to expect schools to build deep water pools, the point several have made is that these facilities already exist. Teams need to work on gaining access to them. Not necessarily for practice but for tournaments. If the Ohio Cup could move to a full size facility - like OSU, Kenyon or Dennison - it seems likely that it would attract a larger number of teams.

As poloplayer points out it's hard to get better playing the same teams 4 and 5 times a year. Widen the draw for tournaments and that improves the field. That in and of itself is not the solution for upgrading water polo in Ohio, but it is an element that will contribute to the improvement along with expanding the opportunity for younger players, better coaching, improved officiating etc. Alot of good things are going on in Ohio and finding proper venues for tournaments - especially the championship tournament (i.e. North Regional) - is just another factor in the improvement.

By the way, although there may be some validity about the overall quality of officiating in Ohio, your criticism seems unduly harsh on a dedicate small group of individuals who clearly love the sport and unselfishly give of their time. I suspect that no one is getting rich being a water polo official.
 
I have been holding back these comments concerning the officiating at the state meet, but I can't any longer. First of all, I was a licensed football official for many years. So, I understand what all officials in all sports go through. However, I also know that officials can be very instrtumental in the outcome of any contest.

The officiating in the Sycamore/St. Francis semi-final was awful. It was very one-sided. The same two officials officaited the 3rd/4th place game, and it was much more evenly officiated. Afterward, we our finding out that one of the officials is a Sycamore graduate and plays in a polo league with the Sycamore coach. The fact that he did not remove himself from officiating the Syc/SFS game is just plain wrong.
 
I know many of the officials in the Cincinnati area and I know that none of them would go into a game with the intent of favoring one team or another. I am sure that the officials did *not purposely side with sycamore. However you are right in saying that the one official should have removed himself from officiating the game given that he has ties to the school to avoid speculation.
 
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I wasn't there so I don't know what happened. But in my experience it is not uncommon for the losing team's fans to see the officiating as biased. Especially in a close game. What does St. Francis' coach say? Is there a mechanism to lodge a protest? Anyway, if you disqualify every official that has had a connection with a team in the past, seems like you will reduce a small group that is probably stretched thin now to a group that can not cover the games that are played.
 
Really?

I stumbled upon your message board while looking for some similar message boards for my area. So..... here is a perspective from someone that has not seen your teams play.

Here is a list of things that are not the problem
- Facilities - I have seen plenty of teams that practice in shallow deep pools or shallow-shallow pools that are successful programs
- Referees - I have seen referees from Ohio doing events outside of Ohio. I remember talking to a few of them a few years back. I didn't even know Ohio had water polo until that time! I don't remember seeing players or coaches from outside of Ohio doing any games. I am not saying there are not any players or coaches doing anything outside of Ohio, but they sure as heck must be few and far between. I certainly have not seen any Ohio teams playing outside of Ohio. Maybe they have, but it must be like an Elvis or bigfoot sighting.
- Not playing enough outside of Ohio - it helps to travel and play teams outside of your area sometimes, but that does not make your teams good. It is just lets them know where they are so they can go back home and get better.

Some perspective so you can see where your teams are:
Looks at 16U boys JO results this year. Chicago Park District took 20th and Rockford took 17th. Those teams having been playing outside of their area for years and they still struggle compared to the top California teams.
In the 18U "challenge group" AKA the teams that couldn’t compete with the championship group where the best teams play, the Michigan teams (616 and Ann Arbor) didn't even place. Rockford, to their credit, played in the championship group. They did OK in that group. Ended up playing Chicago Park District in their final game for somewhere above 20th place. Windy city had a pretty good team and took 10th. They are always good when I see them play. Good coaches. Smart players.

But your state champ, Upper Arlington, isn't competitive with Rockford? And they are the greatest team in Ohio, ever???? And people on this message board brag about not losing by much against Rockford? I am willing to bet the game between Rockford and Upper Arlington was only close because Rockford played some scrubs. I could be wrong, but regardless, the best Ohio team EVER is no where close to Rockford, and Rockford is not even a mention in the national scheme. And the problems are the facilities and referees and not traveling to play outside of Ohio enough? Really?

Looking at some scores in Ohio with Upper Arlington vs. anyone else in Ohio, I am assuming that UA called off the dogs and played scrubs in most games just to be polite. That means that every other team in Ohio is absolutely terrible compared to Upper Arlington. And the problems are the facilities, the referees, and not traveling outside of Ohio enough???

You guys need to try asking the coach of Upper Arlington what he does to beat all of the rest of you into the ground on a regular basis.
 
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i agree with most of what you say, other than noting that this year rockford didn't have to play their "scrubs" against ua, rather ua's speed and good goalie allowed them to keep it close, just couldn't generate any offense against a good fast, smart team
 
Okay waterpolocritic we get it...Ohio water polo is no good. So faciities, playing outside of Ohio and referees mean nothing to the quality of play. Tell us what does! Obviously since we are so inferior within the water polo world we need someone to enlighten us on how as a community we improve. And asking the UA coach won't do it, because although UA was the dominant team this year, that has not been the case every year. What are the priorities that we should focus on? Your post tells us how awful we are but gives no guidance.
 
Mukisa has some good points:

"We need more coaches. We need more pool time"

My teams and the teams my kids have played on play lots of games. We have a club and play most of the year. We play locally for the most part. Nobody wants to travel all the time. I have tried a travel team (traveling most weekends to get the best competition) and the numbers just were not there. Very few can/will spend the money and time to travel all the time for a sport that will more than likely not get them a full scholarships. Kids and parents will travel for swimming. More scholarships there. There are not problems with facilities and coaches. One coach can take care of a pool full of kids. So, I have always worked with swim club coaches. During swim season, the polo players swim. In the off season, they swim and play polo. I don't let my kids quit swimming. That hurts our polo teams (I don't want to waste time in polo practice having to get kids in swim shape) and makes the swim coaches upset.
Our best swimmers play polo. That is the norm. Do your best swimmers play polo? This board seems to believe swimming is very strong in Ohio. I would bet most of them would enjoy playing water polo and it wouldn't hurt there swimming ability.
Where I live, many good polo players get swim scholarships and don't play polo in college, but they love playing in high school. Some think it actually helps them avoid burnout and avoid some overuse injuries.

Play more games in Ohio in the offseason. Then play a few out of state bigger tournaments, see where your weaknesses are in terms of fundamentals, work on improving during practice. But as Mukisa said, you need coaches and facilities.

I would stop publically bashing referees. We have problems getting referees in my area as well. I was actually thinking about killing a few of the ones we do have last week, but honestly, they have a tough job and we can't afford to lose them. They take crap from everyone. My kids make more mistakes than they do. I decided years ago, I would not worry about the officials until after I got my kids to stop making more mistakes than I think the referees are making. Hasn't happened yet. But when it does, I can't wait to really dig in and yell at those guys in white!
 
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Those are good points. Thus far though, in Ohio only a few of the clubs have embraced water polo. My impression is the most club swimming coaches either out of ignorance or concern that is will effect their business in a negative way discourage playing water polo. I think you are right that water polo provides the swimmers with a break from the training grind and I agree probably helps avoid burnout. Since swimming is such an individual sport - especially at the club level - the opportunity for the swimmers to play a team sport is that much more attractive. Water polo players should definitely be pushed to swim and the smart club (i.e. UA New Albany & GTAC) will encourage rather than discourage water polo. Indeed, the club programs should consider adding water polo to their program thereby creating the age group programs that are critical to the growth of the sport.
 
At St. Francis, almost all of the kids on the swim team play water polo. There are a couple of kids that do not swim, who play polo and vice versa. The water polo team is basically swimmers throwing a ball around. They only play water polo for 2 months and swim the other months of the year. They just do not have the time to learn how to play water polo currently; however, beginning talks are taking place on how to get a club polo team up and going. The bottom line is the kids need more time practicing and playing polo and being coached by people who know how to teach polo.
 
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