Mentor Cardinals Football 2020

Bad Blake

Member
It’s an interesting situation Mentor is in. I’m not sure why it’s so preposterous for teams to not want to play them. Take Kirtland for example. No one with similar enrollment chooses to play them, so they have to schedule up 2-3-4 divisions to get non-conference games. That isn’t an option for Mentor. Mentor is in the top 1% in enrollment, and the top 1% from a competitive standpoint of the top division. So why would a school with half or 2/3 their enrollment who really doesn’t have a chance to beat them schedule them? If you look at D1 R1, most of the players in that region are already on the schedule. Ed’s, Iggy, Euclid, Solon, Strongsville, Medina etc... once you start talking about teams 3-4 hours away I don’t know if you can consider that ducking. It may be that they feel they have a competitive enough schedule without the inconvenience of a 4+ hour trip.
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
It’s an interesting situation Mentor is in. I’m not sure why it’s so preposterous for teams to not want to play them. Take Kirtland for example. No one with similar enrollment chooses to play them, so they have to schedule up 2-3-4 divisions to get non-conference games. That isn’t an option for Mentor. Mentor is in the top 1% in enrollment, and the top 1% from a competitive standpoint of the top division. So why would a school with half or 2/3 their enrollment who really doesn’t have a chance to beat them schedule them? If you look at D1 R1, most of the players in that region are already on the schedule. Ed’s, Iggy, Euclid, Solon, Strongsville, Medina etc... once you start talking about teams 3-4 hours away I don’t know if you can consider that ducking. It may be that they feel they have a competitive enough schedule without the inconvenience of a 4+ hour trip.
This mentality is why these schools that do duck teams like Mentor and the privates will always be mediocre or worse. If you think you are beaten before you play the game then you won't ever improve as a program.

I've already shown how the enrollment claims are exaggerated and how mentor played better teams than them to get to the point they are now and rise up. But you guys will ignore it so it is what it is

Mentor is 10 in enrollment of 72 for the most recent year in D1. You flunked math if you get top one percent from that. And there are 5 or so and maybe more that are very close (like 30 or less boys ) to passing us too
 
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Bad Blake

Member
This mentality is why these schools that do duck teams like Mentor and the privates will always be mediocre or worse. If you think you are beaten before you play the game then you won't ever improve as a program.

I've already shown how the enrollment claims are exaggerated and how mentor played better teams than them to get to the point they are now and rise up. But you guys will ignore it so it is what it is

Mentor is 10 in enrollment of 72 for the most recent year in D1. You flunked math if you get top one percent from that. And there are 5 or so and maybe more that are very close (like 30 or less boys ) to passing us too
What? Again- who?? You brought up Massillon (2 state final appearances in a row - not mediocre), Pick Central (2 of last 3 state championships with 2 wins over Mentor - not mediocre), Warren Harding who wouldn’t keep it within 50, and a bunch of schools 5 hours away. The only one that makes sense to me is McKinley, but if they already have games that they like why would they get out of those contracts? And if you’re 10th in enrollment out of 720 schools you’re in the top 1.3%. If you’re only talking D1 you shouldn’t bring up schools in lower divisions who are ducking you.
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
What? Again- who?? You brought up Massillon (2 state final appearances in a row - not mediocre), Pick Central (2 of last 3 state championships with 2 wins over Mentor - not mediocre), Warren Harding who wouldn’t keep it within 50, and a bunch of schools 5 hours away. The only one that makes sense to me is McKinley, but if they already have games that they like why would they get out of those contracts? And if you’re 10th in enrollment out of 720 schools you’re in the top 1.3%. If you’re only talking D1 you shouldn’t bring up schools in lower divisions who are ducking you.
The only school on the list that I said that wasn't d1 was Warren Harding. And they were D1 before the split The rest is made up in your head

I didn't say Massillon ducked us. Massillon played us. I said pick Central would prob play down the line but they chose Euclid over us for last year. And I said they schedule up and they've won. Learn to read
 

WJ-OSU-STEELERS

Active member
Assuming MentorGrad is correct, 10th in enrollment would put Mentor in the top 13.89% of D1 but your way off base regarding enrollment differences: 900+ kids vs 700 is a difference. The OHSAA created the D1 top 72 schools due to complaints that the top tier schools were 2 times the enrollment of the smaller D1 schools (when there were approximately 110 schools in D1).

Regarding Pic Central & Mentor over the last 20 years both are very similar success wise except one glaring exception:
* Mentor has missed the playoffs 6 times, 5 State Runner Ups, 0 State Titles
* PC has missed the playoffs 2 times, 2 State Runner Ups, 2 State Titles
 

Bad Blake

Member
I just don’t think you’re being realistic about it. When you are as big as Mentor and as good as Mentor, your options are limited. They should be playing Ed’s and Iggy. Other than that I don’t know what you want. I’ll give you McKinley, other than that anything else is a stretch one way or the other
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
Assuming MentorGrad is correct, 10th in enrollment would put Mentor in the top 13.89% of D1 but your way off base regarding enrollment differences: 900+ kids vs 700 is a difference. The OHSAA created the D1 top 72 schools due to complaints that the top tier schools were 2 times the enrollment of the smaller D1 schools (when there were approximately 110 schools in D1).

Regarding Pic Central & Mentor over the last 20 years both are very similar success wise except one glaring exception:
* Mentor has missed the playoffs 6 times, 5 State Runner Ups, 0 State Titles
* PC has missed the playoffs 2 times, 2 State Runner Ups, 2 State Titles
So how about the schools that are very close to Mentor in enrollment? You guys are acting like Mentor is way out there for boys enrollment in D1. They aren't. 9 schools bigger. Another 5-6 very close like 30 boys or less. Schools like Medina that are like 871 vs 937 as well. It isn't like we are some behemoth that can't be matched for enrollment.

This isn't even mentioning that two schools who compete at times with us and beat us at times are smaller than that. Euclid and Solon.

And others are recruiter privates like Moeller or eds who have less enrollment but huge recruiting areas. Or the publics who recruit or get tons of transfers as whitmer and pick Central have had reputations for in the past. These things even it out a lot

As for the Mentor vs pick central resume how about regional finals? How about lack of depth of region 3 vs region 1? No privates in region 3?Makes a big difference to have to get through eds and Iggy to win a region vs just Columbus publics. Your numbers are very shallow. Sure they beat us head to head twice but Mentor has been right there with them as an overall program. And 4 runner ups for us.
 
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Maple_City_Fan

Well-known member
It’s an interesting situation Mentor is in. I’m not sure why it’s so preposterous for teams to not want to play them. Take Kirtland for example. No one with similar enrollment chooses to play them, so they have to schedule up 2-3-4 divisions to get non-conference games. That isn’t an option for Mentor. Mentor is in the top 1% in enrollment, and the top 1% from a competitive standpoint of the top division. So why would a school with half or 2/3 their enrollment who really doesn’t have a chance to beat them schedule them? If you look at D1 R1, most of the players in that region are already on the schedule. Ed’s, Iggy, Euclid, Solon, Strongsville, Medina etc... once you start talking about teams 3-4 hours away I don’t know if you can consider that ducking. It may be that they feel they have a competitive enough schedule without the inconvenience of a 4+ hour trip.
Stephen A. Smith wants his Thesaurus returned.
 

Harrycrane

Well-known member
Yeah I remember Coffman had a tough time finding a game so it was a one off road game with Lake Catholic In 2007 . Seems that year D-1 available teams said no to Them so it was what was available . 2009 same thing but they got a Canadien team to come down .

That 2007 team was the one that lost to St X in the semifinals by three points ending the game inside the X ten yard line . Only team to out gain X all year as they were 15-0 with a ton of D-1 kids on defense especially .

Pretty sure Coffman didn’t cherry pick Lake that year as the Rocks finished 13-1 . Just ran out of options that year . Mentor lost to St X the next week in the final by 4 touchdowns
 

WJ-OSU-STEELERS

Active member
MentorGrad - Yes, I agree that the D1 regions in Cincy & Cleveland typically have more depth than the other two regions, particularly in the 5-8 seeds. Over the last 20 years in D1, Cincinnnati has won 8 state titles, Cleveland 7 and Columbus 5. Columbus D1 may not have the depth of quality teams for various reasons; 2 of which are no big Catholic schools and the public schools are not as big enrollment # wise as Mentor, Mason, etc. For a central Ohio school to win a D1 state title they have to go through the best from Cincinnati & Cleveland in the semi's & championship game - if one does that I believe that is earning it on the field. Central Ohio D1 football has improved greatly over the last 20 years, here are central Ohio's D1 state titles:

* 2000 Upper Arlington (beat 13-1 Colerain 10-7 & 14-1 Solon 15-9)
* 2006 Hilliard Davidson (beat 13-1 Colerain 10-6 & 13-2 Mentor 36-35 ot)
* 2009 Hilliard Davidson (beat 10-3 Elder 24-20 & 13-2 Glenville 16-15)
* 2017 Pickerington Central (beat 11-3 Colerain 41028 & 13-2 Mentor 56-28)
* 2019 Pickerington Central (beat 13-1 Menton 28-21 & 12-3 Cincy Elder 21-14)

Pickerington Central isn't going away anytime soon & they have played some of the teams throughout the country, a couple of the Olentangy schools appear to be close to state caliber on a year in, year out basis and Dublin Coffman has had a good 20 year run with their coach who doesn't appear to be going anywhere anytime soon. I would assume any of these central Ohio schools would consider a home & away with Mentor.
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
Pick Central is about the only Columbus schools I could see agreeing to a home and home with Mentor. .

Region 3 will always have a good team or 2 at the top. They never match the depth of regions 1 and 4. That's why your shallow numbers really meant nothing to me. The winner never has to get through a Catholic school to win the region and it's easier to slide in as a 7 or so seed instead of missing the playoffs because of lack of depth and privates.
 

cardzfan1234

Well-known member
The schedule is filled, so any conversation about all of these other teams, who Mentor should/shouldn't schedule, who should schedule them, etc. are all irrelevant. Here is some relevant info on the 2020 team:

QB - Ian Kipp
RB - Riley Coughlin
WR - Hutch Baird
WR - ?
WR - ?
WR - ?
LT - Hunter Colao
C - Stan Zalewski
RT - Tommy Shea
LG - ?
RG - ?

Offensively, the team is pretty set at QB, RB, and the offensive line. Wide receiver is a huge question mark. Baird stepped in after Vernon got hurt. His numbers (25 catches, 269 yards in probably 8 or 9 games) were fine as the 3rd or 4th option. Underclassmen listed on the two-deep in 2019 were Eric Coode, Sean Allgood, and Colin DePasquale. In garbage time last year, which you won't see many passes thrown, the trio combined for 5 catches.

DE - Brenan Vernon
DT - Preston Cardina
DT - ? (maybe Benny LoDuca)
DE - Greg Predina
LB - Evan Boyd
LB - ?
LB - ?
DB - Noah Gladish
DB - ?
DB - ?
DB - ?

Last year's two-deep chart had three junior linebackers listed as backups (Jeff Norwood, Andrew Edward, and Aiden Limtury). Along with Boyd, those guys should be in the mix for starting linebacker spots. I can't say I know anything about any of them other than seeing Norwood on the JV basketball team the past two years. I honestly can't say I noticed any of them on the football field, but I'm not super observant about backups. In the secondary, three sophomores were listed on the two-deep (Mike Harrison, Antonio Bertolami, and Kenny Jordan). Gladish is by far the most experienced returner, as he has been starting since he was a sophomore.

Over the years, Mentor has gone back and forth between a 3-4 and 4-3 defense. It is hard to argue last year's results with a 3-4, but I strongly feel the team needs to go back to a 4-3. Last year's defense had a lot of talent and experience at linebacker, so four of them was justified. In 2020, the strength on defense is the size, depth, and talent up front. Use four guys. Let Vernon be in one-on-one matchups all season. I hope that is the case this season. On top of the three experienced guys they are bringing back, I'm sure there are some other guys that can contribute. LoDuca was a big sophomore I noticed playing in the Shaker game. He looked like someone who could step in and start in 2020.

Edit: As for special teams, kicker Andrew Smith is returning. I know he missed a couple FG's in the state semifinal, but he hit 9-11 FG's before that point, including a couple in the 40's. He missed just one PAT all year...can't remember if it was blocked or not. He is a pretty good kicker and it is nice to bring him back.
 
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wickb2233

Member
Yeah I remember Coffman had a tough time finding a game so it was a one off road game with Lake Catholic In 2007 . Seems that year D-1 available teams said no to Them so it was what was available . 2009 same thing but they got a Canadien team to come down .

That 2007 team was the one that lost to St X in the semifinals by three points ending the game inside the X ten yard line . Only team to out gain X all year as they were 15-0 with a ton of D-1 kids on defense especially .

Pretty sure Coffman didn’t cherry pick Lake that year as the Rocks finished 13-1 . Just ran out of options that year . Mentor lost to St X the next week in the final by 4 touchdowns
2006 LC went down to Coffman and got killed. 2007 LC was a few plays away from beating Coffman and shocking the state. Just throwing it out there lol.
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
Maybe it is time for Ohio to consider Districts?
As much as I hate teams dodging us I wouldn't want them forced to play us. It's their own loss. Mentor improved by playing teams like McKinley , Massillon , Solon , Ignatius etc when they were better than us. The teams avoiding these matchups like to have inflated regular season records and then lose in round 1 or 2. It's whatever
 

Harrycrane

Well-known member
That MLC - Coffman game in 2007 was a weird one as was the next weeks game vs Scioto . Games much closer than expected . Coffman blew out first three opponents then took the trip to MLC . Didn’t go to that game but a MEH performance and some hairy moments .

The next week Vs Scioto the Rocks were in the red zone 7 times and scored 9 points including a late FG to win it ( kicker had missed XP and 4 other field goals ) 9-7 .

MLC went to the final 4 in D-3 that year .
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
Back to Mentor since this is our thread.

Can anyone fill in the question marks on cardz post for the potential starting lineup ?
 

cardzfan1234

Well-known member
Over the last month, class of 2023 sensation Brenan Vernon has received offers from Toledo, Iowa State, Cincinnati, Kentucky, and Notre Dame. These are in addition to MAC schools, Duke, Indiana, Michigan, etc. I expect him to get an offer from OSU no later than their summer camp. Wouldn't be surprised to see some more SEC schools offer too. If he can add OSU, Clemson, and Bama over the next few months - that would be quite impressive for a kid that is still a freshman.

Besides Vernon, I think Kipp is the only other player on the roster with DI offers. I'm not aware of anyone else on the roster that is a probable scholarship player in Division I.
 

StraightCashHomey

Active member
Pretty sad we can't get any Ohio public's to play us. Team Canada plus the 2 big privates out of conference

Going to be a lot more Catholic schools on our schedule if the gcc breaks up
Actually Mentor CHOSE to play St. Eds a couple years back when they rejected Avon's offer to schedule a game and scheduled Eds instead. I realize Avon is D2 and you said D1. But that was one area public school willing to play Mentor and Mentor chose the private instead. I think there was some talk on here about it but I think it was a one year game offer AT Avon without the return game at Mentor the next year.
 

cardzfan1234

Well-known member
Actually Mentor CHOSE to play St. Eds a couple years back when they rejected Avon's offer to schedule a game and scheduled Eds instead. I realize Avon is D2 and you said D1. But that was one area public school willing to play Mentor and Mentor chose the private instead. I think there was some talk on here about it but I think it was a one year game offer AT Avon without the return game at Mentor the next year.
That’s your story and maybe that’s true. I just think given the choice, Mentor would schedule Avon over St Eds every single time. So with no outside knowledge, I don’t believe that. Or at least I don’t believe it is as simple as you claim. Now, if the offer was just a one year deal (at Avon) versus a home and home with Eds, maybe that was a factor. Avon would be an awesome team to schedule. They are good competition, offer lots of Harbin potential, and it is a team Mentor doesn’t have to worry about playing twice.
 

Bad Blake

Member
“Mentor would schedule Avon over St Eds every single time.”

There’s the answer to why Mentor has a hard time scheduling games. Same exact thought process. Nothing wrong with that.
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
“Mentor would schedule Avon over St Eds every single time.”

There’s the answer to why Mentor has a hard time scheduling games. Same exact thought process. Nothing wrong with that.
What are you implying here ? The reason Mentor has trouble scheduling games is most publics won't play them. They aren't passing valid offers up. Avon getting a home game and us not getting one as well doesnt benefit us. Avon doesn't have the resume to demand we play them away and not get a return.
 

cardzfan1234

Well-known member
“Mentor would schedule Avon over St Eds every single time.”

There’s the answer to why Mentor has a hard time scheduling games. Same exact thought process. Nothing wrong with that.
I understand what you’re saying. I know why teams like South, North, Chardon, Riverside have no reason to schedule Mentor. There is nothing in it for them other than a slightly bigger gate. When I think of an area program that should schedule someone like Mentor, it would be a D1 team on the rise or a DII team with a schedule they normally handle with a 9-1/10-0 record that wants a challenge and can afford a loss. Or a third option is a program going nowhere that is fine settling for a pay day. Avon is one of the only teams that fit into one of those categories. The GCC makes up a good portion of D1 teams in greater Cleveland.

Mentor ponies up and plays St Ignatius every year, so I prefer not to have both on the schedule. I don’t think they are scared to play St Eds, I just think given another option they would take it. Especially a series like Avon that has so many positives.

FWIW, Berea did step up and schedule Mentor for the next two seasons. Good for them. What small playoff hopes they had are taking a hit when you factor adding another guaranteed loss compared to trying to add a team you can possibly beat.

If Mentor and Lake Catholic both end up independent in 2021 or 2022 and (more importantly) Mentor seems on the decline, I wonder if the two will engage in a discussion.
 

StraightCashHomey

Active member
What are you implying here ? The reason Mentor has trouble scheduling games is most publics won't play them. They aren't passing valid offers up. Avon getting a home game and us not getting one as well doesnt benefit us. Avon doesn't have the resume to demand we play them away and not get a return.
I believe this was exactly the issue. This was the first game of the 2018 season. Avon already had 5 road games and was trying to find a home game to fill the schedule. The reason it was one year was because Avon already had a new series scheduled with Lorain beginning in 2019.
 

StraightCashHomey

Active member
I understand what you’re saying. I know why teams like South, North, Chardon, Riverside have no reason to schedule Mentor. There is nothing in it for them other than a slightly bigger gate. When I think of an area program that should schedule someone like Mentor, it would be a D1 team on the rise or a DII team with a schedule they normally handle with a 9-1/10-0 record that wants a challenge and can afford a loss. Or a third option is a program going nowhere that is fine settling for a pay day. Avon is one of the only teams that fit into one of those categories. The GCC makes up a good portion of D1 teams in greater Cleveland.

Mentor ponies up and plays St Ignatius every year, so I prefer not to have both on the schedule. I don’t think they are scared to play St Eds, I just think given another option they would take it. Especially a series like Avon that has so many positives.

FWIW, Berea did step up and schedule Mentor for the next two seasons. Good for them. What small playoff hopes they had are taking a hit when you factor adding another guaranteed loss compared to trying to add a team you can possibly beat.

If Mentor and Lake Catholic both end up independent in 2021 or 2022 and (more importantly) Mentor seems on the decline, I wonder if the two will engage in a discussion.
Well all the remaining SWC schools will be looking for new teams to schedule now that three teams have left. Maybe more will as well.
 
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