Ask The Ump?

thavoice

Well-known member
I saw this very situation years ago during a State Semi-Final. (in another state) Everyone in the park saw that the 3rd Base Umpire kicked a call and the Plate Umpire went to him to tell him just that. A long discussion was held and the 3rd Base Umpire changed his call....... television replay the next day indicated without a doubt that the only person to get the call right was the 3rd Base Umpire.

When we take a game that is played by people who make mistakes and is officiated by people who make mistakes and only try to "correct' the mistakes of only a segment of that game..... we create unintended consequences.

Life's not fair.........



Again... when you demand as a coach, player, or fan that a call be changed that went in your favor. Then and only then can you truly bring forth the argument that it's about getting the call right.

No official likes it when the kick a call..... believe me, I've lost many a week's worth of sleep over the years. However it is part of the game. It's never going to be perfect. (the silly attempt by the Atlantic League with their computer strike zone proves that even with technology, mistakes are made)

Quit trying to make it so.
I have to agree with your assessment. As we both stated, the only time an umpire should do this if they are incorrect on an interpretation of said rule.
With that said, I believe umps shouldn't be too into themselves to ask for help in certain situations. I saw a call a couple of weeks ago at the State ACME tournament. It was a call at second base, a very questionable one, where the umpire (3 man crew) literally was falling to the ground on his arse when the play was being actioned and made the call from his backside laying on the ground and wouldn't ask for any assistance. 50/50 on if the call was right or not but I don't think any team would have had an issue with him at least asking. It did possibly derail a last inning rally, but that is how it goes.


With that said, and I learned this the hard way, is from the coaching side that if you want an appeal to be made, do so in a calm, collective and pleasant demeanor as they are more likely to grant it. I successfully had two calls changed at first base by appealing to the HP umpire on the 1B pulling his foot. The first time I tried I was too rambunctious in wanting an appeal and they never granted it. (afterwards the umpire talked to me about my demeanor and that likely caused him to not ask). Other times I calmly asked the base ump if he could as the HP ump, and calmly stated that because the position he was in with a guy on first base doesn't allow him to see if he pulled his foot.

Worked twice (which I think was the right call).

With that said, I don't really want umps trumping one another on calls, just not good for the game. How many times do we watch games in live action, thinking it was wrong, only to find that the umpire right there was right? I am not talking about replay, as that goes frame by frame on a close up view, but an umpire from across the diamond who also has his own responsibility to take care of.
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
Runner at 2nd base. Grounder to the hole between shortstop and 3rd base. Shortstop charging, 3rd baseman cutting over and runner from 2nd sprinting to 3rd.

3rd baseman comes up with the ball and makes a throw to first base. Shortstop and runner collide just a couple feet behind the 3rd baseman. If the 3rd baseman hadn't made the play, the shortstop would have.

So with the collision, is this interference? Obstruction? Nothing?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Runner at 2nd base. Grounder to the hole between shortstop and 3rd base. Shortstop charging, 3rd baseman cutting over and runner from 2nd sprinting to 3rd.

3rd baseman comes up with the ball and makes a throw to first base. Shortstop and runner collide just a couple feet behind the 3rd baseman. If the 3rd baseman hadn't made the play, the shortstop would have.

So with the collision, is this interference? Obstruction? Nothing?
In this play only one fielder may be protected from interference by the runner. Since F5 fielded the ball, he is the protected fielder and F6 has the responsibility to not obstruct the runner.

F6 is guilty of obstruction involving the collision between him and the runner. Award the runner third base.

(could be a different base award depending on what happened to the ball after it was thrown towards first and how severe the contact was with the runner)
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
This is a tough one to describe and is mostly about younger players.

For a play at home, a runner is coming home. The pitcher is running to cover. Ball arrives before the runner but at a close time. The pitcher fears getting trucked so avoids the collision, which causes them to miss the throw. Can a runner be called out that does not slide because of almost creating a collision or do they actually have to make contact with the defender?

I know this might be one of those you have to see it plays...
 

AllSports12

Moderator
This is a tough one to describe and is mostly about younger players.

For a play at home, a runner is coming home. The pitcher is running to cover. Ball arrives before the runner but at a close time. The pitcher fears getting trucked so avoids the collision, which causes them to miss the throw. Can a runner be called out that does not slide because of almost creating a collision or do they actually have to make contact with the defender?

I know this might be one of those you have to see it plays...
Under NFHS rules, a runner is never required to slide, but if he does, he must execute the slide legally.

Unless there are special rules that require a runner to slide, (many youth leagues have a special rule) what you describe is nothing illegal.
 

fortfan

Active member
Under NFHS rules, a runner is never required to slide, but if he does, he must execute the slide legally.

Unless there are special rules that require a runner to slide, (many youth leagues have a special rule) what you describe is nothing illegal.
Annoys the heck out of me when people complain that a kid has to slide.
 
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