Ask The Ump?

What's the ruling
Base's loaded. Batter hits slow ground ball to the S.S.
He flips it to the second baseman but it wasn't even close the runner on first was there very fast. So does the batter get. A hit? or A Fielders Choice.
I always thought to be a fielders choice there had to be an out made. So is it a fielder's choice or hit. The batter definitely would of beat out a throw to first. Ttb
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Question:

Runner at second. He takes off for third and the pitcher wheels and throws it to the shortstop who is playing the 'norma' SS spot well from the base.

I know a pitcher can throw it directly to third contrary to what some thing, but is the throw to the SS who is not near the base at all okay?>
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Question:

Runner at second. He takes off for third and the pitcher wheels and throws it to the shortstop who is playing the 'norma' SS spot well from the base.

I know a pitcher can throw it directly to third contrary to what some thing, but is the throw to the SS who is not near the base at all okay?>
As long as there is a legal step and the pitcher gains ground, this is legal.

Only on a pick off at 1st Base is there a requirement to have the throw near or in the proximity of the base.
 
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thavoice

Well-known member
Remember the discussion we had about a 1B not giving much of the base for the runner to go back to the base about?

Similar play this weekend at HP. Catcher blocked the plate great, runner slid into it and bounced off and tagged out. Heard the umpire tell the coach that the catcher gave the runner part of the plate.

Is your ruling still the same for plays at the plate? Catcher did a great job in blocking it, and was there well before the ball.

Personally, I give the catcher kudos even though I am thinking it was against the rules.


What say you?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Remember the discussion we had about a 1B not giving much of the base for the runner to go back to the base about?

Similar play this weekend at HP. Catcher blocked the plate great, runner slid into it and bounced off and tagged out. Heard the umpire tell the coach that the catcher gave the runner part of the plate.

Is your ruling still the same for plays at the plate? Catcher did a great job in blocking it, and was there well before the ball.

Personally, I give the catcher kudos even though I am thinking it was against the rules.


What say you?
The rule applies to home plate as well.

If the umpire judged that access to the plate was afforded by the catcher, then his ruling was a proper application of the rule.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
The rule applies to home plate as well.

If the umpire judged that access to the plate was afforded by the catcher, then his ruling was a proper application of the rule.
Good to know.

I have heard it more than once the last couple of years of coaches complaining about blocking the plate. I think some get it confused with that rule MLB had a number of years ago, that THANKFULLY WAS CHANGED/TWEAKED, where blocking the plate at all before the ball was illegal.


Man, was that an embarrassing rule and thankfully it was altered which I think was done in season.


Thanks.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
So my son and I watched this last night and he said he wanted to do this on his next start. My question for the umps here, is this a legal pitch? I'm assuming it is with no runners on base, but with runners is it a balk? Does the pitcher have to come set with the ball in the glove?

https://twitter.com/jeffbajenaru/status/1138502966392963073
First an illegal pitch is an illegal pitch. The penalties differ depending on the existence of runners. With a runner(s) on, the penalty is a balk. With no runners on, a ball is awarded to the batter. Under NFHS Rules, the ball becomes dead immediately. Under Official Baseball Rules, this is a delayed dead ball and the offense has options depending on the outcome of the entire play.

In the video you refer to, the action is not legal under NFHS Rules. The pitcher must come to a set position with his hands together in front of his body (at or below the chin) before he delivers the ball to the plate.

This is legal under Official Baseball Rules, as evidenced by the fact that the umpire simply replaced the ball that was fouled off.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
First an illegal pitch is an illegal pitch. The penalties differ depending on the existence of runners. With a runner(s) on, the penalty is a balk. With no runners on, a ball is awarded to the batter. Under NFHS Rules, the ball becomes dead immediately. Under Official Baseball Rules, this is a delayed dead ball and the offense has options depending on the outcome of the entire play.

In the video you refer to, the action is not legal under NFHS Rules. The pitcher must come to a set position with his hands together in front of his body (at or below the chin) before he delivers the ball to the plate.

This is legal under Official Baseball Rules, as evidenced by the fact that the umpire simply replaced the ball that was fouled off.
It is interesting this came up because I was discussing this over the weekend.

With your explanation, even with no runners on a pitcher must pause, correct?

I saw it a couple of times in JV games in 2018 where a balk/ball was called while a pitcher was in the stretch, not pausing, when no one was on base and the coach mentioned it had been called a few times already that spring as I had never seen that before.


Correct?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
It is interesting this came up because I was discussing this over the weekend.

With your explanation, even with no runners on a pitcher must pause, correct?

I saw it a couple of times in JV games in 2018 where a balk/ball was called while a pitcher was in the stretch, not pausing, when no one was on base and the coach mentioned it had been called a few times already that spring as I had never seen that before.


Correct?
Correct

Rule 6-1-3

PENALTY (Arts. 1, 2, 3):

The ball is dead immediately when an illegal pitch occurs. If there is no runner, a ball is awarded the batter. If there is a runner, such illegal act is a balk. In both situations, the umpire signals dead ball.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Correct

Rule 6-1-3

PENALTY (Arts. 1, 2, 3):

The ball is dead immediately when an illegal pitch occurs. If there is no runner, a ball is awarded the batter. If there is a runner, such illegal act is a balk. In both situations, the umpire signals dead ball.
Just to clarify for everyone:

NFHS 6-1-3

If there are no runners and a pitcher is using the stretch position, and the pitcher fails to come set before delivering the pitch to the batter, it is an illegal pitch. The umpire should call time and add a ball to the count.




Hope you don't mind, as I imagine most people do not know this is a thing.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Just to clarify for everyone:

NFHS 6-1-3

If there are no runners and a pitcher is using the stretch position, and the pitcher fails to come set before delivering the pitch to the batter, it is an illegal pitch. The umpire should call time and add a ball to the count.




Hope you don't mind, as I imagine most people do not know this is a thing.
Which is what happened in the twitter video reference above.

Most people don't know it and many, many (one is too many) umpires won't call it because they don't think (incorrectly) it puts anyone at a disadvantage.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Believe I know the answer but I always want to verify.


Runner on second. Takes off early. Pitcher lifts his leg in the delivery and steps to third, keep the ball and runs at the base runner. (Balk called)

I know he is allowed to step and throw to third to push back an advancing runner, but is he allowed to just step TO THIRD when a runner is stealing and not throw it?

Same example as above the runner is NOT going and he steps to third and doesn't throw it. (Balk not called).


What say you?


One other thing on obstruction.
Hit to the OF. Hitter/Runner get to first and runs into the 1st baseman. Is an obstruction call automatic even if there really is no attempt or no chance at going to second base? For instance, twice over the weekend a routine hit to RF. No chance to go to take two and wasn't being aggressive to even attempt it. Call obstruction and get second?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Believe I know the answer but I always want to verify.


Runner on second. Takes off early. Pitcher lifts his leg in the delivery and steps to third, keep the ball and runs at the base runner. (Balk called)

I know he is allowed to step and throw to third to push back an advancing runner, but is he allowed to just step TO THIRD when a runner is stealing and not throw it?
This is not a balk. It is not illegal to feint to second or third base in an attempt to put out a runner.

Same example as above the runner is NOT going and he steps to third and doesn't throw it. (Balk not called).


What say you?
This is a balk as feinting to an unoccupied base is illegal if not during an attempt to put out a runner.


One other thing on obstruction.
Hit to the OF. Hitter/Runner get to first and runs into the 1st baseman. Is an obstruction call automatic even if there really is no attempt or no chance at going to second base? For instance, twice over the weekend a routine hit to RF. No chance to go to take two and wasn't being aggressive to even attempt it. Call obstruction and get second?
Classic "had to be there"..... Here's my take...

You say "runs into the 1st baseman"...... If than happens, I'm awarding 2nd base to the runner.

If the 1st baseman is standing in his path, but the runner has pulled up well before he gets to 1st, then I'm not getting anything on this. (if the outfielder bobbles the ball and the runner decides to kick it in but then hesitates because of the 1st baseman..... you can still get the obstruction)
 

thavoice

Well-known member
This is not a balk. It is not illegal to feint to second or third base in an attempt to put out a runner.



This is a balk as feinting to an unoccupied base is illegal if not during an attempt to put out a runner.




Classic "had to be there"..... Here's my take...

You say "runs into the 1st baseman"...... If than happens, I'm awarding 2nd base to the runner.

If the 1st baseman is standing in his path, but the runner has pulled up well before he gets to 1st, then I'm not getting anything on this. (if the outfielder bobbles the ball and the runner decides to kick it in but then hesitates because of the 1st baseman..... you can still get the obstruction)
Thank you.
I thought it was odd the umpire called a balk when the pitcher faked/stepped to third on the steal attempt but didnt when he wasn't stealing.
Great info, thanks.

I realize the other was a had to be there instance, I guess I was asking if the contact would/should get an obstruction call even on a basic hit (this was to RF, lefty hitter) and if there had to be any thought he may try for second.


In sad news, a long time local umpire, Ed Oberlander of New Knoxvilled, who had umped for over 40 years, died at his residence over the weekend.

Mr. Oberlander was a main stay in West Central ohio for decades. Prayers out to his family. His daughter runs the game day promotions for the Columbus Clippers so baseball was always near and dear to that family
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Thank you.
I thought it was odd the umpire called a balk when the pitcher faked/stepped to third on the steal attempt but didnt when he wasn't stealing.
Great info, thanks.

I realize the other was a had to be there instance, I guess I was asking if the contact would/should get an obstruction call even on a basic hit (this was to RF, lefty hitter) and if there had to be any thought he may try for second.


In sad news, a long time local umpire, Ed Oberlander of New Knoxvilled, who had umped for over 40 years, died at his residence over the weekend.

Mr. Oberlander was a main stay in West Central ohio for decades. Prayers out to his family. His daughter runs the game day promotions for the Columbus Clippers so baseball was always near and dear to that family
I hadn't heard that Ed had passed, but I knew he was fighting cancer. Was inducted into the officiating hall of fame last year, joining his father who I believe was inducted in the early 90's....

Prayers to the family.... much too young to go,
 

Bugsy8875

New member
Pitching Visit Clarification under NHFS Rules.

Team gets 3 "free" defensive conferences. On the 4th, the pitcher must be replaced?

Example to see if I am understanding correctly.

Pitcher A has been visited twice. Pitcher B comes in to start the 5th inning. Coach goes to visit him. Now it's the 6th inning, coach goes to visit pitcher B, does coach have to remove pitcher B?

Thanks
 

bb9

Member
Pitching Visit Clarification under NHFS Rules.

Team gets 3 "free" defensive conferences. On the 4th, the pitcher must be replaced?

Example to see if I am understanding correctly.

Pitcher A has been visited twice. Pitcher B comes in to start the 5th inning. Coach goes to visit him. Now it's the 6th inning, coach goes to visit pitcher B, does coach have to remove pitcher B?

Thanks
That's correct, he would need to be removed.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Coverage on the bases:

Runner on first. Base hit to left. Runner goes first to third.

HP umpire hustles to third to make the call. Is this the correct coverage?


Reason I ask is this, the ball got away from the third baseman. The runner had idea's of heading home but hesitated.
 

bb9

Member
Coverage on the bases:

Runner on first. Base hit to left. Runner goes first to third.

HP umpire hustles to third to make the call. Is this the correct coverage?


Reason I ask is this, the ball got away from the third baseman. The runner had idea's of heading home but hesitated.
Correct.

It used to be the base umpire would then head home but now the plate umpire will need to get back to the plate. (Allsports, they did change that a few years ago, correct?)
 

AllSports12

Moderator
It used to be the base umpire would then head home but now the plate umpire will need to get back to the plate. (Allsports, they did change that a few years ago, correct?)
"They" being the OHSAA DOD for Baseball. This is not an NFHS Mechanic.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Situation:

Team A brings up the incorrect batter and takes one pitch.
Team B realizes the wrong batter and notifies the umpire.

It was ruled batting out of order.


What is the call?



(I know the answer, I just want the official response from ALLsports and then I will give a little bit more information what was said/done afterwards and how the umpire ruled it.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Situation:

Team A brings up the incorrect batter and takes one pitch.
Team B realizes the wrong batter and notifies the umpire.

It was ruled batting out of order.


What is the call?



(I know the answer, I just want the official response from ALLsports and then I will give a little bit more information what was said/done afterwards and how the umpire ruled it.
The proper batter will take their place in the batter's box with the current count (in this case either 1-0 or 0-1) and the game resumes. (Rule 7-1-1)

It's all about the timing when we have batting out of order...... ( I'm almost afraid to hear what happened..... :( )
 

thavoice

Well-known member
The proper batter will take his place in the batter's box with the current count (in this case either 1-0 or 0-1) and the game resumes. (Rule 7-1-1)

It's all about the timing when we have batting out of order.

Exactly. So now that we have that clear let me tell you what happened, and it really hosed the offending team.


Defensive team notifies umpire after one pitch (I forget if it was a ball/strike). I cringed because I knew the rule from researching it a few years ago.

Umpire rules the batter out, 1st out of the inning I believe.

It was the last inning and the team loses with the tying run on third, and winning run on second.


After the game I told the coach who reported it that he needed to wait until after the at bat (if the kids into a DP, you can just let it slide and take the result) and he thought it was just after one pitch.


Here is where it gets good. The umpire was still standing around as he had the next game so this coach asks him "what if I waited until after the at bat and he got a hit" and the response from the umpire was "well then the play (hit) stands if you don't say something before his at bat is completed!



I understand getting calls wrong on the field but when they mess up rules interpretations, and this isn't even an obscure one, it irks me especially from someone who supposedly was and OHSAA umpire at one time.


The losing team was livid, wanted to protest and to be quite honest a couple of their mom's (why is it oftentimes the mom's who get the nastiest?) need to take a look in the mirror and see how they are reacting at a kids game.



but I digress.

I wanted to bring this up because so many people had no idea what the rule was. Even the team who got the short end of the stick didn't realize it until their started to look up the rules on their phone's after it happened.
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
If a batter hits a home run and decides to stay at second base instead of finishing the home run, would that be legal and he gets to stay at second?

I know this is a weird question but I've seen it in slow pitch because some one wants the cycle and just saw a fastpitch softball game where the umpire incorrectly ruled a ball a homerun that bounced over the fence. I wondered if the batter declined to finish running the bases if they are eligible to remain at second.
 

Zunardo

Active member
Following up on Yappi's question, what rules are in play if said batter (baseball only) hits a home run over the fence, then suffers a severe injury like breaking his ankle as he crosses 2nd base, and is unable to finish running the bases and officially score by touching home plate? Is a pinch runner allowed in the middle of that play?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
If a batter hits a home run and decides to stay at second base instead of finishing the home run, would that be legal and he gets to stay at second?

I know this is a weird question but I've seen it in slow pitch because some one wants the cycle and just saw a fastpitch softball game where the umpire incorrectly ruled a ball a homerun that bounced over the fence. I wondered if the batter declined to finish running the bases if they are eligible to remain at second.
The batter hitting the home run results in a 4-base award.

Base awards are not optional. The runner will be instructed to complete his award. If he fails, he is subject to being ejected.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Following up on Yappi's question, what rules are in play if said batter (baseball only) hits a home run over the fence, then suffers a severe injury like breaking his ankle as he crosses 2nd base, and is unable to finish running the bases and officially score by touching home plate? Is a pinch runner allowed in the middle of that play?
Yes, if a runner or batter runner is injured and cannot complete the base award, a substitute can be inserted into the game to complete this base award.

This only applies when the ball is dead, as it is in this situation due to the ball traveling over the fence in flight.
 
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