Ask the Ref?

AllSports12

Moderator
A1 passes to A2. A2 catches the pass while airborne and throws it to the floor inbounds before landing out of bounds. A2 then comes back inbounds and is the first to touch the ball.

1) Is this an out of bounds violation? Does A2 need to establish two feet inbounds to be considered inbounds?
2) If not, did A2's throwing the ball to the floor count as beginning a dribble?
3) If it does count as beginning a dribble, if A2 touches the ball with two hands, dribble's over, right? Else if A2 bats the ball to the floor with one hand, he may continue dribbling, right?
1) A player is in bounds when he is not touching the floor, an object other than a player or person or an outside boundary. The best easiest way to describe a player in bounds is "something touching in, nothing touching out". There is n requirement for both feet, hands, knees, cheeks, ears... etc

2) Yes

3) Yes, one of the elements that defines the end of a dribble is when the dribbler (it already began) touches the ball simultaneously with both hands.

And Yes, he may in this situation bat the ball to the floor to continue the dribble he started by throwing the ball to the floor.
 

Talk some sense

Active member
1) A player is in bounds when he is not touching the floor, an object other than a player or person or an outside boundary. The best easiest way to describe a player in bounds is "something touching in, nothing touching out". There is n requirement for both feet, hands, knees, cheeks, ears... etc

2) Yes

3) Yes, one of the elements that defines the end of a dribble is when the dribbler (it already began) touches the ball simultaneously with both hands.

And Yes, he may in this situation bat the ball to the floor to continue the dribble he started by throwing the ball to the floor.
Love your answers always but this one was particularly concise and clear on an issue that most fans (at least the ones who tend to bellow at refs) have no idea about. Thanks.
 

oxat622

Well-known member
Is there an official hand signal for the violation when a free throw shooter's final shot does not touch the rim? I see officials do the finger twirl thing, but I don't believe that is official.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Is there an official hand signal for the violation when a free throw shooter's final shot does not touch the rim? I see officials do the finger twirl thing, but I don't believe that is official.
This is no official signal for this violation.

Some point, some circle the finger. Most, no matter what they signal, will verbalize that the ball did not hit the ring.
 

oxat622

Well-known member
A1 is in his frontcourt and has ended his dribble. He tosses the ball off the backboard and it is clearly not an attempt for a try. Is it legal if he:

1) Jumps in the air, catches the ball in flight and dunks/shoots before landing (T-Mac style)?
2) Catches the ball and begins a new dribble?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
A1 is in his frontcourt and has ended his dribble. He tosses the ball off the backboard and it is clearly not an attempt for a try. Is it legal if he:

1) Jumps in the air, catches the ball in flight and dunks/shoots before landing (T-Mac style)?
2) Catches the ball and begins a new dribble?
1) Legal

2) This one has been debated among officials forever. The NFHS has done a poor job in interpreting this. By rule this is legal..... By popular interpretation this is legal..... However, there is a faction that claims you cannot start a new dribble..... The sticking point is whether or not a try is required.....

I wish the NFHS would publish a clear and concise interpretation on this.... Been wishing it for years.
 

oxat622

Well-known member
1) Legal

2) This one has been debated among officials forever. The NFHS has done a poor job in interpreting this. By rule this is legal..... By popular interpretation this is legal..... However, there is a faction that claims you cannot start a new dribble..... The sticking point is whether or not a try is required.....

I wish the NFHS would publish a clear and concise interpretation on this.... Been wishing it for years.
Thanks. I was working with a Class 1 official this weekend who said scenario 1 happened in one of his games and he called it a violation.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Thanks. I was working with a Class 1 official this weekend who said scenario 1 happened in one of his games and he called it a violation.
There's no debate on #1.

I believe the Case Book play that covers this is 4.15.4 Situation C (part C)

The waters get muddied in the ruling of (c) where it says... "once the ball is released on a try"....... (this is where it's unclear whether or not judgment is involved on whether or not a try occurred)

Remember, this only applies to A's backboard.
 

CasualFan24

Active member
In football, the officials are wearing masks and doing everything within their power to not touch the football. Have you heard what, if any, stipulations there will be for basketball officials this season? One would have to imagine if those things are required for an outdoor sport they would certainly be required for an indoor sport where the officials are generally closer to the action/players right?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
As of right now, there are no changes to actual game rules.

All the other stuff in the "recommendations" from the government are pretty much the same as the fall sports recommendations.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
In football, the officials are wearing masks and doing everything within their power to not touch the football. Have you heard what, if any, stipulations there will be for basketball officials this season? One would have to imagine if those things are required for an outdoor sport they would certainly be required for an indoor sport where the officials are generally closer to the action/players right?
The state's (DeWine) prohibition of the touching of the football is just about the silliest thing I've ever been a part of. Thankfully, as of this time, there is nothing like this recommended for basketball. They are recommending/allowing us to stand further away from a player on a throw-in and free throws, but those techniques are largely already implemented.

As of right now there are no changes to playing rules. (coin flip vs jump ball)
 

PAC_Champ

Member
Should players be on the floor when the clock runs out on a timeout, or can they be in the huddle for the full minute and run back out when that minute is up?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Should players be on the floor when the clock runs out on a timeout, or can they be in the huddle for the full minute and run back out when that minute is up?
Once the second horn sounds indicating the time out has ended the teams should break the huddle and begin to return to the floor.
 

14Red

Well-known member
A couple of the ones that cause confusion.

Can the same offensive player shoot and air ball and get their own rebound? I've heard as long is it's legitimately considered a shot, and maybe that's where the confusion comes in.

If a ball hits the rim and goes over the backboard, when is it considered out? Any part of the backboard, or just when the ball goes completely over the backboard? This is tough to see on some angles. And part b to that question, can you shoot a ball over the top of the backboard? If you're in that "short corner" and your strong hand is baseline side, you can shoot the ball over the backboard. Is this a legal shot?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
A couple of the ones that cause confusion.

Can the same offensive player shoot and air ball and get their own rebound? I've heard as long is it's legitimately considered a shot, and maybe that's where the confusion comes in.
Nothing illegal about a try that does not touch the back board or rim being rebounded by the shooter. That is one of those "bar bets" that I always say will earn you a few free beverages.


If a ball hits the rim and goes over the backboard, when is it considered out? Any part of the backboard, or just when the ball goes completely over the backboard? This is tough to see on some angles. And part b to that question, can you shoot a ball over the top of the backboard? If you're in that "short corner" and your strong hand is baseline side, you can shoot the ball over the backboard. Is this a legal shot?
A rectangular backboard has 6 sides.... Front, back, top, bottom, left side, right side. Only the back of the board is considered out of bounds when a ball touches it.

Once a ball passes over the top of a rectangular backboard, (from either side) then by rule a violation has occurred (out of bounds) and the opponent is awarded a designated spot throw-in on the end line where the free throw lane intersects with the end line. (Rule 7-1-2b) It does not matter if the ball passed over due to a try, a throw in, or a carom off the rim.

Your example of shooting from the short corner is a violation.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
When does a technical come into effect for a team not taking the floor after half and do more T s pile up after more time?

never saw this before but a team was not even out of the locker room when the final horn sounded after half.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
When does a technical come into effect for a team not taking the floor after half and do more T s pile up after more time?

never saw this before but a team was not even out of the locker room when the final horn sounded after half.
Failing to have a team ready to start a half is penalized with one Team Technical Foul. That TF is part of the Team Foul Total for the half. This is not assessed as a Direct or Indirect Technical Foul to the Head Coach.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Failing to have a team ready to start a half is penalized with one Team Technical Foul. That TF is part of the Team Foul Total for the half. This is not assessed as a Direct or Indirect Technical Foul to the Head Coach.
When does that kick in? A minute after the halftime buzzer? Also, do they get more Ts the longer they don't come out?

Team was assessed a bench TF. Did not look to make sure if a te fouk was added.

One last question, did they shorten half's this year like they did for football?. Cannot for he life o me remember what they usually are
 

AllSports12

Moderator
When does that kick in? A minute after the halftime buzzer? Also, do they get more Ts the longer they don't come out?

Team was assessed a bench TF. Did not look to make sure if a te fouk was added.

One last question, did they shorten half's this year like they did for football?. Cannot for he life o me remember what they usually are
If after one minute has elapsed, only one Team Technical Foul is assessed.

Halftime is still 10 minutes. There is an option to extend to 15, for special events provided the home team has properly notified the visitors prior to the start of the game.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
If after one minute has elapsed, only one Team Technical Foul is assessed.

Halftime is still 10 minutes. There is an option to extend to 15, for special events provided the home team has properly notified the visitors prior to the start of the game.
Thank you. We were sort of wondering if it was shortened and that was part of the snafu.
I had never seen a team not make it out in time!
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Thank you. We were sort of wondering if it was shortened and that was part of the snafu.
I had never seen a team not make it out in time!
Once in my career.....

Coach was being a jackball with us and "wanted to send us a message". Message received and penalty applied.....

The opponent made both free throws and won the game by...... you guessed it.... 2
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Once in my career.....

Coach was being a jackball with us and "wanted to send us a message". Message received and penalty applied.....

The opponent made both free throws and won the game by...... you guessed it.... 2
I sort of thought that was it as well as the coach was pretty adamant in the first half. Ironically, those free throws and a late T with 2 minutes to go went a long way in the team losing.

How about this....What if Team A was supposed to get the ball after half, and they were the beneficiary of the T so they got the free throws and the ball after the T. Does the arrow stay with them after that possession?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I sort of thought that was it as well as the coach was pretty adamant in the first half. Ironically, those free throws and a late T with 2 minutes to go went a long way in the team losing.

How about this....What if Team A was supposed to get the ball after half, and they were the beneficiary of the T so they got the free throws and the ball after the T. Does the arrow stay with them after that possession?
Yes.

The reason why the arrow does not change is part of the penalty for the Technical Foul is being awarded a throw-in at the division line opposite the scorer's table. The throw-in no longer is an AP throw-in, so the arrow does not change.
 

Ericles

Active member
I am an official scorekeeper. Are there any provisions within the rule book that allow me as part of my duties to become involved if I definitively know that a foul was called on the wrong player?
 
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