Ask the Ref?

AllSports12

Moderator
If this were to happen what is the proper way to bring this to the Officials attention?
At the next dead ball, have the timer sound the horn to get the attention of the officials (may have to do it repeatedly) and advise them that "the last foul was charged to #15, however #15 was not on the floor".... Then the crew will have to sort things out from there.

If you summon an offical to the table and tell inform them of what's posted above, be prepared for this question directed at you.....

"why didn't you inform us of this when we reported it?"
 
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thavoice

Well-known member
Last week asked about the ten min half time and a tech. In FB they put 3 min on the clock for warmups . Saw that this weekend for hoops. That allowable?

Slapping of blackboard by a defender usually trying to block the shot, and ofen times not even close

Is this a technical? Fhans always yell for it, but I never see it called.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Last week asked about the ten min half time and a tech. In FB they put 3 min on the clock for warmups . Saw that this weekend for hoops. That allowable?

Slapping of blackboard by a defender usually trying to block the shot, and ofen times not even close

Is this a technical? Fhans always yell for it, but I never see it called.
Slapping the backboard is legal provided it is part of a legitimate attempt to block a try. If not, the result should be a technical foul. This is an often misunderstood rule by fans and unfortunately, officials alike.

Also misunderstood in this play is that no matter how hard the backboard vibrates due to the contact with the backboard, there can never be points awarded for Basket Interference even if the vibration causes the ball to not pass through the basket.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Slapping the backboard is legal provided it is part of a legitimate attempt to block a try. If not, the result should be a technical foul. This is an often misunderstood rule by fans and unfortunately, officials alike.

Also misunderstood in this play is that no matter how hard the backboard vibrates due to the contact with the backboard, there can never be points awarded for Basket Interference even if the vibration causes the ball to not pass through the basket.
Thank you. so never a goal tending! I get sick an tired if every week parents yelling about it.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Thank you. so never a goal tending! I get sick an tired if every week parents yelling about it.
Never Goaltending
Never Basket Interference

It's either perfectly legal or a Technical Foul.

Anything else and people (including officials :mad:) are using the MSU Rule Book. (Make S*#@ Up)
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Never Goaltending
Never Basket Interference

It's either perfectly legal or a Technical Foul.

Anything else and people (including officials :mad:) are using the MSU Rule Book. (Make S*#@ Up)
I have never seen it called, but man the parents always are yelling for a goaltending.
What about if the defender gets entangled in the net while trying to make the block? Same ruling as the backboard slap?

In what instance would you call it a Tech? When it was on the other side of the rim (without a reverse/great fake by the shooter?)
 

AllSports12

Moderator
What about if the defender gets entangled in the net while trying to make the block? Same ruling as the backboard slap?
Touching the net during a try is not illegal unless the player touches it (or any part of the basket) while the ball is on or within either basket. Then Basket Interference has occurred.

If, while the ball is in flight on a try, he causes the rim to vibrate because of being tangled, then a Technical Foul should be assessed. Grasping the basket (including the net) for reasons other than preventing injury or dunking the ball is illegal and should result in a Technical Foul. None of these can result in Basket Interference.

In what instance would you call it a Tech? When it was on the other side of the rim (without a reverse/great fake by the shooter?)
Anytime you judge that the slap is intentional. I have called this on the same side of the basket because it was obvious to even Ray Charles that the player had no intent to try to block the try.... Instead he was frustrated because of what he perceived a blown call on the other end of the floor....
 

Bertha

Member
I know on a dead ball inbound when the ball is throw in and nobody touches it the ball goes back to where it was inbounded from...

BUT what about a live ball situation when a team makes a basket and the other team inbounds the ball and nobody touches it ...

Does the ball go back to under the basket OR does it get inbounded from where it went out of bounds at ??
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I know on a dead ball inbound when the ball is throw in and nobody touches it the ball goes back to where it was inbounded from...

BUT what about a live ball situation when a team makes a basket and the other team inbounds the ball and nobody touches it ...

Does the ball go back to under the basket OR does it get inbounded from where it went out of bounds at ??
Any throw-in that goes out of bounds untouched is always put back into play at the spot the throw-in.

As a side note, all throw-ins are live balls. The ball becomes live once it is at the disposal of the thrower.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
NBA has that No Charge circle essentially......


For HS, do you essentially have the same sort of interpretation if a defender is too close to the hoop?


On a side note, I had asked about the backboard slapping last week. Funny, but the parents didnt care this weekend when it was THEIR team who did it, but go buck wild when an opponent does...
 

zebrastripes

Well-known member
NBA has that No Charge circle essentially......


For HS, do you essentially have the same sort of interpretation if a defender is too close to the hoop?
No.

I officiate HS and college basketball and I do not apply the RA rule to HS games. I've never had an issue getting the rules "confused" even for HS games played on floors with NCAA markings.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Funny, but the parents didnt care this weekend when it was THEIR team who did it, but go buck wild when an opponent does...
That's why when people say "It should be about getting the call right" I have always countered the statement with "When is the last time you screamed about a travel your team got away with?"

I never seem to get a response..... ;)
 

thavoice

Well-known member
That's why when people say "It should be about getting the call right" I have always countered the statement with "When is the last time you screamed about a travel your team got away with?"

I never seem to get a response..... ;)
100%.
Whenever the kid (mostly in baseball mind you) complains to me about a call I make sure to bring up the calls he received in HIS FAVOR during the game!
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Because I get bored and my mind wonders at games:

Scoreboard operator buzzes the horn while a FT is being attempted. It could be distracting.

Any sort of ruling? Reshoot?

Curious.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Because I get bored and my mind wonders at games:

Scoreboard operator buzzes the horn while a FT is being attempted. It could be distracting.

Any sort of ruling? Reshoot?

Curious.
This one comes up in officiating discussion boards every three years or so. The response to this happening unfortunately many times is guided by what people (officials) think is "right" or "fair", rather than by rule.

The sounding of the horn during a live ball (Ball is live during FT's) does not create a dead ball. Players should be instructed to ignore a horn during a live ball..

Case Book Play 2.11.3 asks "when should the scorer signal?"...

Ruling: If the scorer signals while the ball is live, the official should ignore the signal if a scoring play is in progress. Otherwise, the official may stop play to determine the reason for the scorer’s signal.

In this situation, since the horn sounded during a live ball and it was a scoring play, the signal should be ignored by the officials and the players.
 

Ericles

Active member
From a scorekeeper's perspective, there are a few logistical things that always bug me, especially recently so far this season.

There are plenty of players who try to check in to the game with the PA announcer or the scoreboard operator instead of me as the official scorekeeper, who is REQUIRED by the NFHS rule book to wear a striped shirt.

I also have a problem with players checking in and then subsequently drifting all the way back down to their bench area to wait to enter the game. I tell them to stay close by so that we don't forget that they're wanting to go in to the game, but it doesn't always help.

Is there anything that can be done? Or am I engaging in wishful thinking?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
From a scorekeeper's perspective, there are a few logistical things that always bug me, especially recently so far this season.

There are plenty of players who try to check in to the game with the PA announcer or the scoreboard operator instead of me as the official scorekeeper, who is REQUIRED by the NFHS rule book to wear a striped shirt.

I also have a problem with players checking in and then subsequently drifting all the way back down to their bench area to wait to enter the game. I tell them to stay close by so that we don't forget that they're wanting to go in to the game, but it doesn't always help.

Is there anything that can be done? Or am I engaging in wishful thinking?
Largely wishful thinking.......

This is a product of AAU

There's not a whole lot we can do about the drifting other than when an official sees a player try to enter the game from the bench area, they should stop them, walk them to the "x" and sarcastically tell them that this is something that's required since they started playing the game.... Asking the HC to make sure they come to you is a help.....

Occasionally, the kid will screw up to the point that a technical foul can be issued for coming onto the floor without being beckoned..... A rare happening, but that usually helps things from your perspective.....

Again, watch an AAU game..... or any summer game for that matter..... what you describe is SOP.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
What threshold do you generally flow to call a Technical on a player? Body language? What they say?
Saw an official pop of a couple Ts on players and fans went nuts, of course. Was glad to see them take control, as those two likely shoulda been called each game by their actions.
Just wondering what generally do you follow?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
What threshold do you generally flow to call a Technical on a player? Body language? What they say?
Saw an official pop of a couple Ts on players and fans went nuts, of course. Was glad to see them take control, as those two likely shoulda been called each game by their actions.
Just wondering what generally do you follow?
Profanity towards me, another player, a coach, or a fan is automatic....
Some profanity, even in frustration, earns a player one...
Taunting, attempted intimidation, staring down a player or official.....

While we will try to talk a player out of crossing the line, sometimes we just don't get that opportunity.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Thanks. I heard three different answers given to a coach from three different members of the crew last night.
Holy cow......

It was 30 seconds up until the 2007-2008 season. They reduced it to 20 seconds then...

For the 2016-2017 it was lowered to 15 seconds by both a rule change and a Point of Emphasis.

Basketball Rules Changes - 2016-17
By NFHS on September 01, 2016
Basketball

2-12-5: (Timer's Duties) Sound a warning signal to begin the 15 seconds (maximum) permitted for replacing a disqualified or injured player, or for a player directed to leave the game.
Rationale: The amount of time presently given is too long and allows for gamesmanship to be deployed.



Sometimes, we are our own worst enemies.
 
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coltfan76

Active member
Holy cow......

It was 30 seconds up until the 2007-2008 season. They reduced it to 20 seconds then...

For the 2016-2017 it was lowered to 15 seconds by both a rule change and a Point of Emphasis.

Basketball Rules Changes - 2016-17
By NFHS on September 01, 2016
Basketball

2-12-5: (Timer's Duties) Sound a warning signal to begin the 15 seconds (maximum) permitted for replacing a disqualified or injured player, or for a player directed to leave the game.
Rationale: The amount of time presently given is too long and allows for gamesmanship to be deployed.



Sometimes, we are our own worst enemies.
Those are the three I heard.
 

my2sense

Well-known member
I saw a game where a player twisted an ankle. He was on the floor holding his ankle while play progressed to the other end. He used a profanity directed at no one, just yelled in pain. From half court - after the other team scored - the ref turns back, blows his whistle and calls a "T". Everyone thought he had stopped play so the injured player could be attended to, but he Teed him up instead. Your thoughts?
 
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