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Team A kicks off to team B. During the return team A coach makes contact with the official in the box. Penalty is called and marked off from the end of the play. Later in the game play goes out of bounds on team A sideline and flag comes out for sideline warning. The referee announces sideline warning - team a’s first and there is no yardage penalty. Is this correct? Do they still get a warning even after the previous foul for contact in the box?
 

chs1971

Well-known member
Short answer, that is correct. Contact and non-contact violations are two different classes of fouls and are penalized separately.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Team A kicks off to team B. During the return team A coach makes contact with the official in the box. Penalty is called and marked off from the end of the play. Later in the game play goes out of bounds on team A sideline and flag comes out for sideline warning. The referee announces sideline warning - team a’s first and there is no yardage penalty. Is this correct? Do they still get a warning even after the previous foul for contact in the box?
Yes, the officials administered this correctly.

Two separate fouls have occurred here.

On the play in which A's coach makes contact (unintentional I assume) with an official in the restricted area, the foul is for illegal personal contact. 15yd penalty assessed from the succeeding spot. (dead ball spot)

On the second play, there is no description of the action that led to the flag, however (and again assuming) if the flag was for a non player being in the restricted area during a live ball, or having more than three coaches in the restricted area just before a ball us about to become live, that action results in a sideline warning. First offense carries no penalty, second offense carries a 5yd penalty, the third and subsequent offenses all carry a 15yd penalty and are charged as unsportsmanlike conduct fouls against the head coach. (the second results in his ejection from the contest)

EDIT: Since I'm a slow typer and got caught making coffee, CHS has already correctly noted that two separate fouls have occurred here.
 
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PantherProud

Well-known member
What are the rules with the clock regarding offensive penalties?

In the Elder/Springfield game, there was an offensive penalty with under a minute to play. There was no runoff, which doesn't shock me in high school, but the clock did not start after the ball was set. The offense, who was trailing, essentially received an extra timeout.

Was this a mistake?
 

zebrastripes

Active member
What are the rules with the clock regarding offensive penalties?

In the Elder/Springfield game, there was an offensive penalty with under a minute to play. There was no runoff, which doesn't shock me in high school, but the clock did not start after the ball was set. The offense, who was trailing, essentially received an extra timeout.

Was this a mistake?
We would need to know the result of the play ignoring the foul in order to tell you if the crew ruled correctly.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
As for the rules themselves, the clock status after a foul (i.e. starts on snap vs. referee's signal/ready-for-play) is the same as if the foul had not occurred. The result of the play determines what will happen to the clock.

When there is an accepted penalty with less than two minutes remaining in either half, the offended team can elect to have the clock start on the snap if the clock would otherwise start on the ready-for-play.

The Referee does have discretion to start the clock on the snap or ready, superseding the normal rules, if he judges that a team is attempting to conserve or consume time illegally.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
You can’t start a stopped clock, correct? I.e. penalty on a incomplete pass, clock will stay stopped regardless?
It's not that "you can't start a stopped clock" (e.g. the clock stops but restarts on the Referee's signal after a first down inbounds). It's that an incomplete legal or illegal forward pass results in the clock starting on the snap, by rule.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
You can’t start a stopped clock, correct? I.e. penalty on a incomplete pass, clock will stay stopped regardless?
Correct in relation to what you refer to......

Example.....

During a play that results in an incomplete forward pass, A72 is guilty of holding. After enforcing the penalty,the clock will start on the snap as that is what would have occurred absent the foul.
 

PantherProud

Well-known member
We would need to know the result of the play ignoring the foul in order to tell you if the crew ruled correctly.

it either would have been a false start or a holding. Forget which.

The play before, was a tackle in bounds so the clock would have been running if no foul occurred.
 

toledomansfield

Active member
during mansfield aurora game officials penalized the offense a delay of game. the play clock read 16 seconds at the time. the play clock clearly did not start on time. the back judge counted down using his hand. is it proper to penalize the team for the clock operator error in this case?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
during mansfield aurora game officials penalized the offense a delay of game. the play clock read 16 seconds at the time. the play clock clearly did not start on time. the back judge counted down using his hand. is it proper to penalize the team for the clock operator error in this case?
Yes it is.

This mechanic has been used for quite a while now. The Back Judge always counts down the last 5 seconds regardless the existence of a play clock. The coaches know this.
 

USA70PP

Well-known member
Question for the Mods on this thread, if you don't mind saying, how many final games have you been involved with? There is a standby official isn't there also?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I do not feel that it is proper for any official to publish his/her career accomplishments or failures on social media, (for obvious reasons) therefore I'll respectfully decline to answer the first question.

There is an Alternate Official on hand. With a 6 man crew if more than one replacement is needed the crew can always revert to 5 man mechanics.
 

USA70PP

Well-known member
Thanks. Any word from your end is appreciated. Over the time I have had questions that you have not only answered, but explained as well. Thanks again.
 
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bb9

Active member
I do not feel that it is proper for any official to publish his/her career accomplishments or failures on social media, (for obvious reasons) therefore I'll respectfully decline to answer the first question.

There is an Alternate Official on hand. With a 6 man crew if more than one replacement is needed the crew can always revert to 5 man mechanics.
They have two alternates throughout the finals and they typically rotate games, 1 on 1 off, etc.
 

Zunardo

Well-known member
I realize NCAA rules are different from NHS, but that hit on the last play of the OSU-Wisconsin game made me wonder:

On the last play of a game where time expires before the ball is dead, are personal foul calls ever made, particular those that might be ejection-worthy? If so, how would that be administrated under high school rules?

Looked to me like Josh Proctor might have led with his helmet when he blasted Jack Coan. With the change in the game these past few years to eliminate the "big hit", looked like Proctor went old-school on the play.

Just curious. Thanks in advance.
 
I realize NCAA rules are different from NHS, but that hit on the last play of the OSU-Wisconsin game made me wonder:

On the last play of a game where time expires before the ball is dead, are personal foul calls ever made, particular those that might be ejection-worthy? If so, how would that be administrated under high school rules?

Looked to me like Josh Proctor might have led with his helmet when he blasted Jack Coan. With the change in the game these past few years to eliminate the "big hit", looked like Proctor went old-school on the play.

Just curious. Thanks in advance.
NFHS Football Rules, 1-1-8:

"The game officials’ authority extends through the referee’s declaration of the end of the fourth period or overtime. The game officials retain clerical authority over the game through the completion of any reports, including those imposing disqualifications, that are responsive to actions occurring while the game officials had jurisdiction. State Associations may intercede in the event of unusual incidents that occur before, during or after the game officials’ jurisdiction has ended or in the event that a game is terminated prior to the conclusion of regulation play."

Basically, the quarter isn't over until the officials declare it is over, which is after all penalties are administered. Some penalties extend a quarter (to include the 4th quarter) where there would be an untimed down as in rule 3-3-3:

"A period shall be extended by an untimed down if one of the following occurred during a down in which time expires:
a. There was a foul by either team and the penalty is accepted, except for those fouls listed in 3-3-4b. (such as unsportsmanlike fouls, nonplayer fouls, fouls that result in a loss of down or a safety, or any fouls that would be enforced on the subsequent kickoff)
b. There was a double foul.
c. There was an inadvertent whistle.
d. If a touchdown was scored, the try is attempted unless the touchdown is scored during the last down of the fourth period and the point(s) would not affect the outcome of the game or playoff qualifying."
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I realize NCAA rules are different from NHS, but that hit on the last play of the OSU-Wisconsin game made me wonder:

On the last play of a game where time expires before the ball is dead, are personal foul calls ever made, particular those that might be ejection-worthy? If so, how would that be administrated under high school rules?

Looked to me like Josh Proctor might have led with his helmet when he blasted Jack Coan. With the change in the game these past few years to eliminate the "big hit", looked like Proctor went old-school on the play.

Just curious. Thanks in advance.
Under NFHS Rules, the if the officials ruled that the contact was flagrant, then they retain the authority to disqualify the offender as any period or half does not officially end until the Referee holds the ball above his head.

Even then, there would be no enforcement of any penalty associated with that illegal act as it occurred after time had expired.
 

USA70PP

Well-known member
In that same vein, a situation arose in this area some years ago when team members were caught drinking at a party. As I understood it they should have missed game or games the next season. Instead they were put on the swim team and had to sit out half of the season. Just a way around the rules? Or was that just local punishment?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
In that same vein, a situation arose in this area some years ago when team members were caught drinking at a party. As I understood it they should have missed game or games the next season. Instead they were put on the swim team and had to sit out half of the season. Just a way around the rules? Or was that just local punishment?
Totally a school matter and has nothing to do with game officials or the OHSAA
 

USA70PP

Well-known member
Thought that was what it was, but you know how some people know more than there is to know about some things.
 

PantherProud

Well-known member
I realize NCAA rules are different from NHS, but that hit on the last play of the OSU-Wisconsin game made me wonder:

On the last play of a game where time expires before the ball is dead, are personal foul calls ever made, particular those that might be ejection-worthy? If so, how would that be administrated under high school rules?

Looked to me like Josh Proctor might have led with his helmet when he blasted Jack Coan. With the change in the game these past few years to eliminate the "big hit", looked like Proctor went old-school on the play.

Just curious. Thanks in advance.
It was shoulder to shoulder but still stupid of Procter to take the chance.
 
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