Ask The Ref?

chs1971

Well-known member
If the officials touch the ball, they must immediately use sanitizer.
The offensive player who is downed, must keep the ball and give it to the center in the huddle.
After huddle the center goes to the bean bag and places it down. He can adjust and re grab the ball. No penalty. Just don't take advantage of it.
If a defensive player has the ball, after he is downed, he gives it the opposition.
The maximum players allowed for any one team is 60. No more!
I din't get clarification on if the players who had helmets on that they don't have to wear a mask. I think they have to stay six feet apart when not wearing a mask.

Good luck to all the teams and good luck to all the hs football junkies! Hope you can find a way into the games.:cool:(y)
Players do not have to wear a mask. Nonplayers on the sideline are supposed to social distance. Officials don't have anything to do with either of those, or the 60 player limit.
 

chs1971

Well-known member
Something I saw during a scrimmage this weekend was the offensive player giving the center the ball at the end of the play, then the center placing the ball at the bean bag, then leaving the ball and going back to the huddle.
Does the center have to take the ball back to huddle, or is it ok as long as he’s the one who puts it there?
The official Ohio mechanic says, "(The Center) will secure the ball from his teammates, take it & keep it in the huddle & bring it to the succeeding spot where the orange bean bag is located."

If it works easier for the center to spot the ball before he goes to the huddle it would actually help the officials, especially the chain crew to place the down box. My concern is social distancing. It's no good if the center is standing right next to the umpire waiting for the umpire to put his bean bag on the ground. If they can remain more than 6 feet apart I'm not going to say no.
 

LELL

Active member
The official Ohio mechanic says, "(The Center) will secure the ball from his teammates, take it & keep it in the huddle & bring it to the succeeding spot where the orange bean bag is located."

If it works easier for the center to spot the ball before he goes to the huddle it would actually help the officials, especially the chain crew to place the down box. My concern is social distancing. It's no good if the center is standing right next to the umpire waiting for the umpire to put his bean bag on the ground. If they can remain more than 6 feet apart I'm not going to say no.
The official will have two "pink" or "orange" bean bags, it won't be as you described above.
 

chs1971

Well-known member
The official will have two "pink" or "orange" bean bags, it won't be as you described above.
We have two orange bean bags and used them last Friday. What does that have to do with the umpire and the center being within 6 feet of each other?
 

LELL

Active member
We have two orange bean bags and used them last Friday. What does that have to do with the umpire and the center being within 6 feet of each other?
He has two bags (one at the present LOS) and when a new one is established, they will put that down when the center is in the huddle. Not to hard to understand. At least I don't think so.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
Probably been covered before, but a refresher never hurts:

Player A1 punts the ball. Ball lands and rolls past Player B1 who sees opportunity for a return and runs after ball. B1’s attempt to retrieve the ball results in a muff. The ball ultimately rolls into Team B’s endzone where Player A2 recovers it. Everyone in stands, myself included who forgot this isn’t NFL rules, thinks it’s a touchdown for Team A. The referees ruled it a touchback, Team B’s ball at their own 20. The referees made the correct call, no?
 
  • Like
Reactions: bb9

bb9

Active member
Probably been covered before, but a refresher never hurts:

Player A1 punts the ball. Ball lands and rolls past Player B1 who sees opportunity for a return and runs after ball. B1’s attempt to retrieve the ball results in a muff. The ball ultimately rolls into Team B’s endzone where Player A2 recovers it. Everyone in stands, myself included who forgot this isn’t NFL rules, thinks it’s a touchdown for Team A. The referees ruled it a touchback, Team B’s ball at their own 20. The referees made the correct call, no?
Correct!
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
When does the 40 second clock start after the previous play? Soon as the whistle? Couple seconds pass?

Also, for schools that have a 40 second clock, does the clock keeper start it based on an officials motion or do they start it on their own?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
When does the 40 second clock start after the previous play? Soon as the whistle? Couple seconds pass?

Also, for schools that have a 40 second clock, does the clock keeper start it based on an officials motion or do they start it on their own?
The play clock will start at 40 immediately after the ball becomes dead in the following situations...

Dead Ball in bounds
Dead ball out of bounds
Incomplete pass
Team a reaches the line to gain (first down)
Two changes of possession after A snaps the ball

The signal to start the 40 second clock is when the official raises his hand to signify a dead ball in bounds, stops the clock on a dead ball in bounds or out of bounds, or signals an incomplete pass.
 

Ericles

Member
The play clock will start at 40 immediately after the ball becomes dead in the following situations...

Dead Ball in bounds
Dead ball out of bounds
Incomplete pass
Team a reaches the line to gain (first down)
Two changes of possession after A snaps the ball

The signal to start the 40 second clock is when the official raises his hand to signify a dead ball in bounds, stops the clock on a dead ball in bounds or out of bounds, or signals an incomplete pass.
True, but many officials will tell you to pause a few extra moments before restarting the play clock. Not instantly as your instinct may be.
 

LHS02

Member
Where does overtime begin? The 10 or the 20? Also the defense returned an interception 98 yards on the second play of overtime. Should the score have counted or is the ball automatically dead? Thank you!
 

bb9

Active member
Where does overtime begin? The 10 or the 20? Also the defense returned an interception 98 yards on the second play of overtime. Should the score have counted or is the ball automatically dead? Thank you!
20.

The ball is dead on a turnover, so the defense could not score in that scenario.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
True, but many officials will tell you to pause a few extra moments before restarting the play clock. Not instantly as your instinct may be.
That may be the case if it's the back judge keeping the clock as he may be involved in officiating dead ball action.

If it's kept by someone else it needs to start immediately. Those many officials have no valid reason to tell a clock operator to pause before starting.
 

Gnep27

New member
This question is not intended to question the judgement on a call, obviously that can't be determined on a forum. The scenario is a pass thrown down the sideline and from the vantage point of everyone on the opposite side of the field, the receiver shoves the defender with both hands and makes the catch. The tv announcer says immediately, that was clearly offensive PI. There was no flag. The coaches clearly were not happy and the official closest to them simply said, that's not my call. My question is, are there only certain officials who can make certain calls on any given play. I can understand how the official on the sideline didn't see a push off as he was looking at the back of the receiver and wouldn't have an angle. It's not a big deal, it just got me thinking. I would think if any official saw a blatant infraction they would be allowed to call it (and maybe in this case it wasn't an infraction. It kind of reminded me of baseball when a player is clearly out at first and the first base umpire calls the guy safe and the home plate umpire simply says, it's his call (and it is), even though he knows he missed it. I understand it happens, I'm just curious on the logistics, is there a point when getting the call right if you saw something overrides the mechanics? I appreciate all the experts on here education us.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
This question is not intended to question the judgement on a call, obviously that can't be determined on a forum. The scenario is a pass thrown down the sideline and from the vantage point of everyone on the opposite side of the field, the receiver shoves the defender with both hands and makes the catch. The tv announcer says immediately, that was clearly offensive PI. There was no flag. The coaches clearly were not happy and the official closest to them simply said, that's not my call. My question is, are there only certain officials who can make certain calls on any given play. I can understand how the official on the sideline didn't see a push off as he was looking at the back of the receiver and wouldn't have an angle. It's not a big deal, it just got me thinking. I would think if any official saw a blatant infraction they would be allowed to call it (and maybe in this case it wasn't an infraction. It kind of reminded me of baseball when a player is clearly out at first and the first base umpire calls the guy safe and the home plate umpire simply says, it's his call (and it is), even though he knows he missed it. I understand it happens, I'm just curious on the logistics, is there a point when getting the call right if you saw something overrides the mechanics? I appreciate all the experts on here education us.
First things first... and the following comment is not directed personally towards you, but to football fans and coaches in general.....

This isn't about getting the play right, it's about having a call go your way. If it was truly about getting the call right, coaches and fans would be screaming about the holds and other fouls that we missed committed by their own kids. ;) When we hear "our guy has been holding their guy all night!!", you can bet the earth has stopped spinning on it's axis. ;)

Now, mechanically......

While this play is truly not that official's call, the official screwed up by saying "not my call".
He should have responded by saying, "coach, we have three sets of eyes on that play, all closer than the 60+ yards away from the play than I am"

Officiating mechanics are the way they are for a reason..... To create the best, most consistent coverage of the field by the officials. Everyone starts with their pre-snap keys and responsibilities and they should remain with those responsibilities throughout the play. When officials wonder outside their responsibilities, it generally creates a train wreck of a game. We now miss the basic stuff that's right in front of us.... It's not good.

There's an old officiating saying...

"when you go fishing out of your pond, you had better catch a whale"

Pass interference isn't a whale from 60+ yards away.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
This question is not intended to question the judgement on a call, obviously that can't be determined on a forum. The scenario is a pass thrown down the sideline and from the vantage point of everyone on the opposite side of the field, the receiver shoves the defender with both hands and makes the catch. The tv announcer says immediately, that was clearly offensive PI. There was no flag. The coaches clearly were not happy and the official closest to them simply said, that's not my call. My question is, are there only certain officials who can make certain calls on any given play. I can understand how the official on the sideline didn't see a push off as he was looking at the back of the receiver and wouldn't have an angle. It's not a big deal, it just got me thinking. I would think if any official saw a blatant infraction they would be allowed to call it (and maybe in this case it wasn't an infraction. It kind of reminded me of baseball when a player is clearly out at first and the first base umpire calls the guy safe and the home plate umpire simply says, it's his call (and it is), even though he knows he missed it. I understand it happens, I'm just curious on the logistics, is there a point when getting the call right if you saw something overrides the mechanics? I appreciate all the experts on here education us.
Much different in football as each ref has his own area to cover. Baseball tat HP ump often has nothing else to do but watch the play at first.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Much different in football as each ref has his own area to cover. Baseball tat HP ump often has nothing else to do but watch the play at first.
and even then, you don't do anything unless asked by your partner..... and if he/she does, you only offer what you saw. They make any change to their original call.
 

Gnep27

New member
First things first... and the following comment is not directed personally towards you, but to football fans and coaches in general.....

This isn't about getting the play right, it's about having a call go your way. If it was truly about getting the call right, coaches and fans would be screaming about the holds and other fouls that we missed committed by their own kids. ;) When we hear "our guy has been holding their guy all night!!", you can bet the earth has stopped spinning on it's axis. ;)

Now, mechanically......

While this play is truly not that official's call, the official screwed up by saying "not my call".
He should have responded by saying, "coach, we have three sets of eyes on that play, all closer than the 60+ yards away from the play than I am"

Officiating mechanics are the way they are for a reason..... To create the best, most consistent coverage of the field by the officials. Everyone starts with their pre-snap keys and responsibilities and they should remain with those responsibilities throughout the play. When officials wonder outside their responsibilities, it generally creates a train wreck of a game. We now miss the basic stuff that's right in front of us.... It's not good.

There's an old officiating saying...

"when you go fishing out of your pond, you had better catch a whale"

Pass interference isn't a whale from 60+ yards away.
Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate it.

I understand the first part of your comment completely. I was once told in a baseball game by an umpire after he changed his call because the player told him he missed the tag that ultimately their job is to get the call right. I guess that is why I have always had a hard time accepting "that's not my call" if the premise is to get the call right. You explained it all extremely well and I appreciate it.

My son's friend started officiating football and we talk about rules a lot. I learn a lot on this forum, it's a tough job and I appreciate the guys who do it.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate it.

I understand the first part of your comment completely. I was once told in a baseball game by an umpire after he changed his call because the player told him he missed the tag that ultimately their job is to get the call right. I guess that is why I have always had a hard time accepting "that's not my call" if the premise is to get the call right. You explained it all extremely well and I appreciate it.

My son's friend started officiating football and we talk about rules a lot. I learn a lot on this forum, it's a tough job and I appreciate the guys who do it.
Why "that's.not my call" is generally an accepted response is because the offocial making the call is the one whom is usually closer and focusing directly on it,and should have the best view. If iit was a free for all for any ref to over rule another just because he feels he is right is a recipe for disaster.
 

pcbuck

Active member
Officiating is a very difficult job. It often is a thankless job, so thanks for all the officials who make this unusual high school football season possible.

Thanks also to AllSports12 for answering my question. (Thanks to Yappi for having this forum and especially this thread)
 

Gnep27

New member
Why "that's.not my call" is generally an accepted response is because the offocial making the call is the one whom is usually closer and focusing directly on it,and should have the best view. If iit was a free for all for any ref to over rule another just because he feels he is right is a recipe for disaster.
Makes perfect sense. Thanks
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Why "that's.not my call" is generally an accepted response is because the offocial making the call is the one whom is usually closer and focusing directly on it,and should have the best view. If iit was a free for all for any ref to over rule another just because he feels he is right is a recipe for disaster.
I witnessed the following during a game I observed once....

Referee throws a flag for Defensive Pass Interference that may or may not have occurred 18 yards down field.
Three plays later the Back Judge throws a flag for Roughing The Passer.

Hence, the disaster you describe above......
 

devilbuck98

New member
Have the kickoff rules changed again? I understood that no player could be more than 5 yards back except the kicker. Friday night, my son's team lined up inside this 5 yard area and the officials corrected them and made them move behind the 5 yard area. The entire kick off team was more than 5 yards off the ball (kicker was 7-8 yards off) on the kickoff at the direction of the officials. I only caught it on the last score, but my son said they corrected them all night on the same mechanics.
 

Zunardo

Well-known member
I witnessed the following during a game I observed once....

Referee throws a flag for Defensive Pass Interference that may or may not have occurred 18 yards down field.
Three plays later the Back Judge throws a flag for Roughing The Passer.

Hence, the disaster you describe above......
It took me a few seconds to process that. Point taken.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
I witnessed the following during a game I observed once....

Referee throws a flag for Defensive Pass Interference that may or may not have occurred 18 yards down field.
Three plays later the Back Judge throws a flag for Roughing The Passer.

Hence, the disaster you describe above......
Please tell me this at least happened in a youth league game and not a Friday nighter...
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Have the kickoff rules changed again? I understood that no player could be more than 5 yards back except the kicker. Friday night, my son's team lined up inside this 5 yard area and the officials corrected them and made them move behind the 5 yard area. The entire kick off team was more than 5 yards off the ball (kicker was 7-8 yards off) on the kickoff at the direction of the officials. I only caught it on the last score, but my son said they corrected them all night on the same mechanics.
Your officiating crew was dead wrong and your understanding is correct. All players other than the kicker have to be in front of, not on nor behind, the 35-yard line.
 
.
Top