Any chance for a shot-clock yet?

shoprat2 said:
You don’t need a shot clock. Just come out an play tough man defense all over the floor.
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That's fine - but what's the punishment for to coaches that allow a game to be stalled for 3 quarters?

If there's no shot clock, there has to be punishment for coaches who disrespect the game like that. Especially ones like the Harrison coach who stated he wanted a shot clock and then stalled for an entire half - while his team was losing - then lost the game - then said he was right to do it.

Guys like that.
 
Doublehelix said:
Early 40s - I am typically watching D1 Cincinnati games. Alot of the games don't resemble basketball, not because the kids suck, but it's nothing but a bunch of grabbing, shoving, pushing, tackling, bumping, holding, etc, etc, etc.

The refs simply don't call it, and it's because certain schools have preferred refs to allow that garbage. Much like a bad skilled team will hold the ball for a whole quarter to "compete", this is just another gimmick for bad teams to compete.

I don't mind physical basketball, but what is going on is way over the top.
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Those of you who watch D-1 HS basketball have No clue how bad it is at Most schools in the other divisions. Exception, but seldom.
 
I am on the fence, but I hate when I when a team passes the ball around the perimeter for 3 minutes not even looking to score. That ain't basketball and that isn't why folks go to watch.

If you don't need a shot clock, why do we need a play clock in football? Why? To speed up the game.
 
Why do you care so much? said:
I am on the fence, but I hate when I when a team passes the ball around the perimeter for 3 minutes not even looking to score. That ain't basketball and that isn't why folks go to watch.

If you don't need a shot clock, why do we need a play clock in football? Why? To speed up the game.
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Without a play clock in football the defense would not have way to force action and attempt to take the ball away. That's not the case in basketball.

You're comparing apples to oranges
 
1 time said:
Those of you who watch D-1 HS basketball have No clue how bad it is at Most schools in the other divisions. Exception, but seldom.
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Why do people equate being bad to no shot clock?

How does a shot clock make a player better or worse? It doesn't. It's irrelevant to the conversation.

If you're bad (or good) before the shot clock, your still bad (or good) after the shot clock. There must be a lot of very bad basketball players in this forum that think the game is going to be stolen from them.
 
Why do you care so much? said:
If you don't need a shot clock, why do we need a play clock in football? Why? To speed up the game.
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Not true.

In football, when the play clock is running, the ball is dead. The clock creates an opportunity to balance the game offensively and defensively.

Absent a play clock, the games would be far shorter than they are today.
 
Doublehelix said:
Why do people equate being bad to no shot clock?

How does a shot clock make a player better or worse? It doesn't. It's irrelevant to the conversation.

If you're bad (or good) before the shot clock, your still bad (or good) after the shot clock. There must be a lot of very bad basketball players in this forum that think the game is going to be stolen from them.
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But you claim the shot clock would develop the skills of the players.
 
winbypin said:
But you claim the shot clock would develop the skills of the players.
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Not overnight you crazy person.

It would require coaches to change their philosophy. Maybe they rely on more scorers knowing the situations it creates. They would have to abolish the reset of offense every 30 seconds. More kids would naturally be shooting the ball.
 
Doublehelix said:
Not overnight you crazy person.

It would require coaches to change their philosophy. Maybe they rely on more scorers knowing the situations it creates. They would have to abolish the reset of offense every 30 seconds. More kids would naturally be shooting the ball.
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So the game will even be worse for a period of time until this new "development" actually happens? We talking 2-3 years? Longer?
 
Doublehelix said:
Not overnight you crazy person.

It would require coaches to change their philosophy. Maybe they rely on more scorers knowing the situations it creates. They would have to abolish the reset of offense every 30 seconds. More kids would naturally be shooting the ball.
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Coaches can do that now without a shot clock. As a coach, if you want more possessions offensively in a game, you press and play pressure defense. Get out and run in transition that leads to some type of continuity/motion/read react. If the Harrison coach was able to stall for 3 quarters, it's because whoever they were playing defensively stood there with their thumb inserted.
 
DatDudeKid said:
If the Harrison coach was able to stall for 3 quarters, it's because whoever they were playing defensively stood there with their thumb inserted.
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LOL - THEY WERE LOSING!!!!!!!

He stalled in the second half of a game his team was losing. His team was down 5-6 points, and he stood there and held the ball. If you're the opposing coach you say "wow, you're an idiot, feel free to bleed the clock in a game you're losing." Any coach would have done the same thing. You want to make it easier for me to win, feel free.

The fact that people defend this blatant idiocy is mind boggling. Truly mind boggling.
 
DatDudeKid said:
If the Harrison coach was able to stall for 3 quarters, it's because whoever they were playing defensively stood there with their thumb inserted.
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He's lying again...... (go figure)

The Harrison coach didn't stall, their opponent did.

www.cincinnati.com

Shot clock debate resurfaces in Ohio as West High holds ball in sectional win over Harrison

Western Hills held the ball for nearly the entire third quarter Thursday night in its 48-42 sectional tournament win over Harrison.
www.cincinnati.com www.cincinnati.com
 
Doublehelix said:
LOL - THEY WERE LOSING!!!!!!!

He stalled in the second half of a game his team was losing. His team was down 5-6 points, and he stood there and held the ball. If you're the opposing coach you say "wow, you're an idiot, feel free to bleed the clock in a game you're losing." Any coach would have done the same thing. You want to make it easier for me to win, feel free.

The fact that people defend this blatant idiocy is mind boggling. Truly mind boggling.
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You just making stuff up again?



Harrison head coach Andy Marx said Western Hills' stall tactic actually helped his team as Matthew Chuck, Connor Kinnett and leading scorer Will Nieman were each in foul trouble.

"We were a little worried about that (foul trouble) going into the third quarter," Marx said. "They were out-playing us at that point and it actually worked to our advantage because we got to keep our guys on the floor. At that point in the third quarter we were fine with it."
 
winbypin said:
So the game will even be worse for a period of time until this new "development" actually happens? We talking 2-3 years? Longer?
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Player development has nothing to do with a shot clock. Getting in the gym or even outside in the off season is the key. Many only do a little of this in the offseason. That’s the big issue ! Until this changes, basketball and other sports will suffer. Exception to every situation, but this kinda of the standard Hope I’m wrong going forward.
 
1 time said:
Player development has nothing to do with a shot clock. Getting in the gym or even outside in the off season is the key. Many only do a little of this in the offseason. That’s the big issue ! Until this changes, basketball and other sports will suffer. Exception to every situation, but this kinda of the standard Hope I’m wrong going forward.
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This statement is ridiculous. Every school has summer programs, camps and off-season open gyms and conditioning. Alot of kids have extra training they put in on their own. A ton go to one-on-one trainers. There is more basketball training now than ever before.

Again, putting this on the kids in crap. They work to get better. And if they don't, why are coaches putting them on teams?
 
DatDudeKid said:
You just making stuff up again?



Harrison head coach Andy Marx said Western Hills' stall tactic actually helped his team as Matthew Chuck, Connor Kinnett and leading scorer Will Nieman were each in foul trouble.

"We were a little worried about that (foul trouble) going into the third quarter," Marx said. "They were out-playing us at that point and it actually worked to our advantage because we got to keep our guys on the floor. At that point in the third quarter we were fine with it."
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We've already established in this thread, and many other threads, that stalling can be not initiating offense as well as the opposing team just standing there and doing nothing on defense. Both are stupid and egregious.

But this was a do or die, win or go home, tournament game. Without the lead, Harrison went into a zone (or a gap man-to-man as Marx called it lol) and West Hi, knowing they had the lead, knew they didn't have to do a thing. So they forced their opponent to come guard them, and that opponent just stared at them, all instructed by their coach, who was already losing later in the second half of a must win game. And then, it didn't work, and they still lost, and the coach still said it was the right thing to do.

It was nothing more than both coaches trying to out-ego each other (which the West Hi coach pretty much admitted to). And it was a coach (Marx) trying to push the stupidity away from himself by saying it was the right move. And then acting like the fans and the opposing coach were the dumb ones. At least the West Hi coach was honest when he basically said "wow, you're gonna let me bleed a whole quarter with the lead, ok, works for me dummy". What a way for a Senior to go out, and then have to listen to the coach say it was the right move. What a joke.

There's no defending that in a win or go home tournament game. It's not like it was a team that was completely over-matched. It was like a 5 point game at halftime playing a normal style.

And you know what would have prevented all of this stupidity? A shot clock. Which Ironically, both coaches said they wanted lol. Marx said all of things a shot clock would do for the game, and then did none of it for his team. And he still thinks he's right, and people still defend it because he's been at Harrison for so long (and won nothing).
 
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I will say I think the hilarity of this whole thing is that football games typically have 3, sometimes 4 guys on the chains & play clock in each endzone. Whether people agree or disagree on how it would affect the game, let's not act like it would be some monumental effort to do this.
 
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