Any chance for a shot-clock yet?

winbypin said:
My point is the shot clock isn't going to do what you think/want/hope it will for player development.

If will eliminate coaches from holding the ball or extended possessions which is your preferred style of play. You have been very clear on that.
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Well, we disagree. I think it will require some needed changes in coaching philosophy.

It's going to require coaches to re-think some things. Time will tell who's right.

It may also force some dinosaurs into retirement.
 
Doublehelix said:
Again, huh?

So all of these camps, out of town trips, open gyms, off-season scrimmages, training sessions are all just a figment of our imagination? They're not happening?

What are you even talking about?
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That’s the only time Most, not all , put in any time. If you want to be good it is a lonely journey The time you spend on your own is what makes better players. Few do this today. You can go by most parks or drive through neighborhoods and you seldom see basketball or any other sports being played ! That’s Done.
 
Doublehelix said:
Well, we disagree. I think it will require some needed changes in coaching philosophy.

It's going to require coaches to re-think some things. Time will tell who's right.

It may also force some dinosaurs into retirement.
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Yes there will of course be an adjustment but with the average possession already less than the proposed shot clock time I don't think as much as you think.
 
1 time said:
That’s the only time Most, not all , put in any time. If you want to be good it is a lonely journey The time you spend on your own is what makes better players. Few do this today. You can go by most parks or drive through neighborhoods and you seldom see basketball or any other sports being played ! That’s Done.
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Again, this idea that high school kids don't put in the time is bogus. These kids' lives are occupied almost 24/7 with getting better and is an expectation of their schools and coaches.

I don't know what city you live in, but I can tell you in Cincinnati, these kids work hard.

Yes, kids don't play at the park anymore. But they're playing inside or going to individual work-outs year-round. The time spent is different, but not any less taxing.

I honestly don't understand this "athletes are lazy" nonsense.

And again, a question left unanswered, if a kid is lazy, why are coaches keeping them on rosters?
 
Doublehelix said:
And again, a question left unanswered, if a kid is lazy, why are coaches keeping them on rosters?
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Easy. Here are some simple answers:

The kid is athletic enough, big enough, fast enough, smart enough to help the team win games. (This is actually multiple answers but I combined for you)

The coach needs players. You're making the same mistake you always make....you only view this through the D1, Cincinnati, really good team lens. That's not what Ohio looks like everywhere. Get out a little more often.

He is the son of the AD, principal, coach, etc.

The coach likes him.

His wife said so.
 
winbypin said:
Easy. Here are some simple answers:

The kid is athletic enough, big enough, fast enough, smart enough to help the team win games. (This is actually multiple answers but I combined for you)

The coach needs players. You're making the same mistake you always make....you only view this through the D1, Cincinnati, really good team lens. That's not what Ohio looks like everywhere. Get out a little more often.

He is the son of the AD, principal, coach, etc.

The coach likes him.

His wife said so.
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Well, then the coach has his priorities whacked.

And if this is the reality of life at the small schools, there's likely not much pressure to win then either, so don't say "well the coach has to look after himself to keep his job".
 
Doublehelix said:
Well, then the coach has his priorities whacked.

And if this is the reality of life at the small schools, there's likely not much pressure to win then either, so don't say "well the coach has to look after himself to keep his job".
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Lol. Coaches wanting players that will help him win games is now "whacked".

As I said, get out of your little bubble and view the rest of Ohio HS basketball on occasion. Maybe you will learn.
 
winbypin said:
As I said, get out of your little bubble and view the rest of Ohio HS basketball on occasion. Maybe you will learn.
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So I should get out of my small bubble of D1 Cincinnati basketball and go see how the smaller bubble of small school D7 Ohio basketball teaches me something?

LOL ok - more twilight zone bias
 
Doublehelix said:
So I should get out of my small bubble of D1 Cincinnati basketball and go see how the smaller bubble of small school D7 Ohio basketball teaches me something?

LOL ok - more twilight zone bias
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There are only four divisions in basketball.

You're going to have to learn on your own at some point. I can't keep educating you for free.
 
winbypin said:
There are only four divisions in basketball.

You're going to have to learn on your own at some point. I can't keep educating you for free.
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It was a reference obviously over your head to mean no rules should be created off of what is reality in the smallest basketball leagues. That's not what drives the needle.

Hey, 2nd graders often use portable goals and lower the rim to 9 feet. Maybe we should try that for D7...oh, my bad, D4.
 
Doublehelix said:
It was a reference obviously over your head to mean no rules should be created off of what is reality in the smallest basketball leagues. That's not what drives the needle.

Hey, 2nd graders often use portable goals and lower the rim to 9 feet. Maybe we should try that for D7...oh, my bad, D4.
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The original reference obviously went above your small head. There is more to HS basketball than what you only choose to see or understand.

Come to some games. I will buy you some popcorn.
 
winbypin said:
The original reference obviously went above your small head. There is more to HS basketball than what you only choose to see or understand.

Come to some games. I will buy you some popcorn.
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Nothing that's going to change my mind. In fact, it would only make my points stronger.

I already think D1 needs it because of all of the bad basketball. You think me watching worse basketball is going to change my mind?
 
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Doublehelix said:
Nothing that's going to change my mind. In fact, it would only make my points stronger.

I already think D1 needs it because of all of the bad basketball. You think me watching worse basketball is going to change my mind?
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So now we are just back to your preference for style of play.

Good to know.
 
winbypin said:
There is good, and bad, basketball in all divisions. You should get out of your bubble some.
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Except in those lower divisions where you say the players aren't skilled enough for a shot clock lol

Once again, pick a side. You continue to want it both ways.
 
ripvanwinkle said:
Do you think everyone in this thread thinks you're insane for no reason? It's because we all clearly see that you have no perspective of Ohio HS basketball.
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I really don't care. And the more people here that disagree with me, the better.

Like I said, there's two people in this thread carrying water for the ant-shot clock crowd. And they think they know everything and that this can't possibly be open for debate.

There's also been plenty of support for the shot clock in this thread, some with opinions very similar to mine. So again, another post straight out of left field. Guess there's 3 now...
 
Doublehelix said:
Except in those lower divisions where you say the players aren't skilled enough for a shot clock lol

Once again, pick a side. You continue to want it both ways.
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You like to put words in people's mouths, don't you?

I never said they weren't skilled enough for a shot clock. My position has been it's not necessary, it won't drastically change the game, and most of the things you said will happen is purely subjective. The only tangible argument you had was it will eliminate the obvious stalling and holding of the ball in a few games every year. The rest is your preference on the style of play you want to see.

Which is fine but when you try to play your opinions and preferences off as fact in this debate, you lose credibility.
 
winbypin said:
You like to put words in people's mouths, don't you?

I never said they weren't skilled enough for a shot clock. My position has been it's not necessary, it won't drastically change the game, and most of the things you said will happen is purely subjective. The only tangible argument you had was it will eliminate the obvious stalling and holding of the ball in a few games every year. The rest is your preference on the style of play you want to see.

Which is fine but when you try to play your opinions and preferences off as fact in this debate, you lose credibility.
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When I say that a shot clock can be used for a fast-paced or a methodical style of play, exactly what preference of play is my preference? I've never hinted at or established my preferred preference of play, so how can you come to that conclusion?

Hmmm, maybe it's based off of your opinions and preference. Does that make you lose credibility? How can you even make the argument without realizing you are doing the exact same thing LOL

And I didn't put words in your mouth. You and your anti-shot clock water holding buddy have said multiple times that the game is already ugly enough, especially at the lower levels, and you don't want to see it uglier. But then in the next breath, you tell everyone how we're all missing out on lower division basketball excellence.

Which is it???????????????????????????????????????????????????

Twilight.Zone.
 
Doublehelix said:
When I say that a shot clock can be used for a fast-paced or a methodical style of play, exactly what preference of play is my preference? I've never hinted at or established my preferred preference of play, so how can you come to that conclusion?

Hmmm, maybe it's based off of your opinions and preference. Does that make you lose credibility? How can you even make the argument without realizing you are doing the exact same thing LOL

And I didn't put words in your mouth. You and your anti-shot clock water holding buddy have said multiple times that the game is already ugly enough, especially at the lower levels, and you don't want to see it uglier. But then in the next breath, you tell everyone how we're all missing out on lower division basketball excellence.

Which is it???????????????????????????????????????????????????

Twilight.Zone.
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Yes. Twilight zone. I will take "Things I didn't say" for $500 Alex.

Dude...I watch games in all divisions but most of my games are in D4.
 
winbypin said:
Yes. Twilight zone. I will take "Things I didn't say" for $500 Alex.

Dude...I watch games in all divisions but most of my games are in D4.
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LOL ok

So you haven't said or implied that a shot clock would make the game uglier for the lower divisions, but then also said I'm missing out on lower division games because those are good too?

I guess we're all hallucinating again LOL - or maybe lying.

You constantly argue both sides of this. At least you know my position on it.
 
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Doublehelix said:
LOL ok

So you haven't said or implied that a shot clock would make the game uglier for the lower divisions, but then also said I'm missing out on lower division games because those are good too?

I guess we're all hallucinating again LOL - or maybe lying.

You constantly argue both sides of this. At least you know my position on it.
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I don't know if you're hallucinating, lying, or what...but I didn't say that. I went back and looked over the previous 2-3 pages. I didn't say that. Another poster said something like that but it wasn't me.

I am not arguing both sides of anything. I have stated my position multiple times and have been consistent with that position.

Edit: yes, I told you to get out of your D1, Cincinnati bubble. I even offered to buy you some popcorn.
 
Doublehelix said:
All very good points. It definitely changes game strategy.

My point was that all of the naysayers for a shot clock always bring it back to a preferred faster pace of play and increased scoring. It's completely independent of both.

NCAA has a shot clock and there are teams that have success that average 60 points per game, up to 95 points per game, and everything in between. Shot clock is scoring agnostic. The argument is moot.
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Doublehelix said:
Who cares why it was put in place for the NBA. That's not why the HS powers that be are looking at it. It's irrelevant.
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Nothing like watching November and December NBA games. My load management won't allow it.
 
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