Any chance for a shot-clock yet?

AllSports12 said:
Which is exactly why they should ignore the three point line beow the freshman level. How about we get back to teaching the younger players the fundamentals of basketball..... starting with receiving a pass and becoming a triple threat?
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BINGO ! Someone finally gets it !
 
I have a 10 point lead with 4 minutes left and I’m in the double bonus. I have the guards, we shoot 70% from the line, I’m hold the ball until we head to the line or create the advantage for a lay up. The other team has plenty of options to get back into the game…foul (maybe we miss), 1-3-1 (trap), etc…

I don’t see the point in removing winning strategy from the game. Oh that’s right…you want shot clock to make more strategy or take any strategy?

I’m not holding it because that’s really want I want to do. It is the smartest thing to do to win and my players want to win. Winning is fun.

The only people upset at the end of the game is a few $5 fans and the opponent because they just LOST. Losing is not fun.

Many coaches in this winning position are too prideful to use the strategy to win even if their team is designed to do it. They roll the dice and keep shooting which is actually dumb. Some other teams…maybe they have not prepared any other way to end a game or they don’t have the personnel or FT% to justify it.
 
realball4468 said:
I have a 10 point lead with 4 minutes left and I’m in the double bonus. I have the guards, we shoot 70% from the line, I’m hold the ball until we head to the line or create the advantage for a lay up. The other team has plenty of options to get back into the game…foul (maybe we miss), 1-3-1 (trap), etc…

I don’t see the point in removing winning strategy from the game. Oh that’s right…you want shot clock to make more strategy or take any strategy?

I’m not holding it because that’s really want I want to do. It is the smartest thing to do to win and my players want to win. Winning is fun.

The only people upset at the end of the game is a few $5 fans and the opponent because they just LOST. Losing is not fun.

Many coaches in this winning position are too prideful to use the strategy to win even if their team is designed to do it. They roll the dice and keep shooting which is actually dumb. Some other teams…maybe they have not prepared any other way to end a game or they don’t have the personnel or FT% to justify it.
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And that's just one example of why the clock at this level is silly,
 
realball4468 said:
I have a 10 point lead with 4 minutes left and I’m in the double bonus. I have the guards, we shoot 70% from the line, I’m hold the ball until we head to the line or create the advantage for a lay up. The other team has plenty of options to get back into the game…foul (maybe we miss), 1-3-1 (trap), etc…

I don’t see the point in removing winning strategy from the game. Oh that’s right…you want shot clock to make more strategy or take any strategy?

I’m not holding it because that’s really want I want to do. It is the smartest thing to do to win and my players want to win. Winning is fun.

The only people upset at the end of the game is a few $5 fans and the opponent because they just LOST. Losing is not fun.

Many coaches in this winning position are too prideful to use the strategy to win even if their team is designed to do it. They roll the dice and keep shooting which is actually dumb. Some other teams…maybe they have not prepared any other way to end a game or they don’t have the personnel or FT% to justify it.
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Sure, all of that is true, its just not funner for players or fans, especially the younger generation. Of course winning is funner that never changes. Speaking of which, the younger generation of hooper’s dedication, skillset and fitness crushes the skillset and fitness of my generation. The dribbling and shooting skills these days blows my mind. At the end of the day it’s too much of a headache with todays technology to implement.
 
Doublehelix said:
Yeah...and?

The point is a whole bunch of those players with already developed skills don't get to use them in an ultra coach controlled environment, which imo, is making the sport terrible to watch, and is a large part of my argument for the shot clock. Contrary to belief, it has NOTHING to do with scoring or entertainment. Even though you can say that 1 million times and the opponents will still say "you just prefer a more entertaining style". Which has happened in this thread 25 million times and continues to be super super odd.
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Every year you see players able to do things they couldn’t do last season. They work at the game in the off season and opportunities open up. Coaches are going to play who can help them win. The players who work at it get better over time and get more freedom. Huge lesson in that. Shot clock won’t change that. Players control their playing time and shot opportunities. Get better.
 
AllSports12 said:
I've been saying this for years...... North Dakota has been the only state in the top 10 in scoring forever..... They have had the clock forever as well.

Stand by for the 'but the flow will be better" claims.
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And HS basketball in North Dakota is poor by comparison to Ohio, Indiana, and Kentucky.
 
Doublehelix said:
An average team rarely has a chance to beat a really good team, shot clock or no shot clock. It's not the sports responsibility to make it easier for weaker teams. That makes no sense. Not how sports work.
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Not true. Happens more often than you are willing to admit. Shot clock would make that a rarity. Tempo wins games.
 
Doublehelix said:
Yes, I don't agree with this.

Kids are training, playing and working on skills more than ever before. These kids work very hard. In fact, at most schools, you're not on the team if you're not participating in off-season stuff and giving your best effort.

As I mentioned, I rarely watch lower division games, so maybe your statement is accurate there, but there is talent and skill on most D1 rosters.

Coaches would rather roll out kids to enforce than play-make, especially in certain conferences.

LaSalle is a great example. They had one kid that could shoot, and the rest of the team honestly just came out and knocked people around. It's terrible basketball, and they are allowed to get away with it. They won games because of this strategy, not basketball skills.
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Exactly. Everybody has a role. The better players get the shots. If you want to get the shots, put in the work. Players control their destiny, not their coach.
 
Redandgold said:
Exactly. Everybody has a role. The better players get the shots. If you want to get the shots, put in the work. Players control their destiny, not their coach.
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Unless the coach just wants to roll out the muscle guys to foul people and create havoc. Again, that's not basketball just like bleeding an entire quarter holding the ball isn't basketball.

Both scenarios are entirely coach created and is part of what is ruining the HS game, imo.

Again, we're never going to agree. Both this is what my eyes see, and others have posted similar thoughts.

In this thread, we have people saying completely opposite things, so it's pretty obvious everyone is all over the place on what the real issue is.

At the end of the day, the coach makes the decisions. If the game has gotten that ugly, well, it goes back to the decisions that got it there. And that lies with the coaches.
 
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Doublehelix said:
Unless the coach just wants to roll out the muscle guys to foul people and create havoc. Again, that's not basketball just like bleeding an entire quarter holding the ball isn't basketball.

Both scenarios are entirely coach created and is part of what is ruining the HS game, imo.
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Nothing wrong with HS game, unless it’s AAU giving kids bad habits.
Doublehelix said:
Again, we're never going to agree. Both this is what my eyes see, and others have posted similar thoughts.

In this thread, we have people saying completely opposite things, so it's pretty obvious everyone is all over the place on what the real issue is.

At the end of the day, the coach makes the decisions. If the game has gotten that ugly, well, it goes back to the decisions that got it there. And that lies with the coaches.
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Coaches use their talent in the most effective way that will bring a win.
 
?????? said:
Sure, all of that is true, its just not funner for players or fans, especially the younger generation. Of course winning is funner that never changes. Speaking of which, the younger generation of hooper’s dedication, skillset and fitness crushes the skillset and fitness of my generation. The dribbling and shooting skills these days blows my mind. At the end of the day it’s too much of a headache with todays technology to implement.
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Yep…and good coaches always ask their players…”would you rather win and score 2pts or lose and score 15pts”…the ones that think 15 and a loss are typically not thinking for themselves..they are expressing what they hear at home…and those are the hardest ones to coach, star at their role or earn the coach’s trust. Because good coaches don’t play kids they don’t trust in the big moments.

I believe the next generation will be just fine. What worries me the most about implementing a shot clock is the effect it will play at the 7th/8th grade level. A time that should be solely dedicated to fundamentals and skill building. Also, a time to NOT teach them plays, but teach them how to play. A shot clock at HS level will force coaches at that level to have to implement a faster approach (more sets, quick hitters, etc.) to prepare them for what they will face.
 
Doublehelix said:
I disagree, but will say I'm typically watching D1 games the vast majority of the time. If you're in D1 on a varsity roster, you can play. Yes, even the kids that don't get in much. The difference of the kids that play and those that don't typically comes down to size and strength, not basketball skill.

And there are often times when those bigger and stronger kids don't have the same level of skill, but need to play because they're big and strong. That's one of the major reasons it looks ugly. Coaches have to fill their rosters with jacked up strong men because the game has gotten so physical, which is a completely separate problem from the shot clock.
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How old are you?…the game has gotten so physical?…lot less boys being raised on the farm these days.
 
realball4468 said:
How old are you?…the game has gotten so physical?…lot less boys being raised on the farm these days.
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Early 40s - I am typically watching D1 Cincinnati games. Alot of the games don't resemble basketball, not because the kids suck, but it's nothing but a bunch of grabbing, shoving, pushing, tackling, bumping, holding, etc, etc, etc.

The refs simply don't call it, and it's because certain schools have preferred refs to allow that garbage. Much like a bad skilled team will hold the ball for a whole quarter to "compete", this is just another gimmick for bad teams to compete.

I don't mind physical basketball, but what is going on is way over the top.
 
Doublehelix said:
Early 40s - I am typically watching D1 Cincinnati games. Alot of the games don't resemble basketball, not because the kids suck, but it's nothing but a bunch of grabbing, shoving, pushing, tackling, bumping, holding, etc, etc, etc.

The refs simply don't call it, and it's because certain schools have preferred refs to allow that garbage. Much like a bad skilled team will hold the ball for a whole quarter to "compete", this is just another gimmick for bad teams to compete.

I don't mind physical basketball, but what is going on is way over the top.
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The shot clock is going to fix the physical style of play?
 
Doublehelix said:
Early 40s - I am typically watching D1 Cincinnati games. Alot of the games don't resemble basketball, not because the kids suck, but it's nothing but a bunch of grabbing, shoving, pushing, tackling, bumping, holding, etc, etc, etc.

The refs simply don't call it, and it's because certain schools have preferred refs to allow that garbage. Much like a bad skilled team will hold the ball for a whole quarter to "compete", this is just another gimmick for bad teams to compete.

I don't mind physical basketball, but what is going on is way over the top.
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A bad skilled team can’t hold the ball for a quarter unless the defense refuses to come out of a packed zone or the other team is equally bad…and if that is the case…who cares…they will be gone the 1st game of sectionals.
 
realball4468 said:
Yep…and good coaches always ask their players…”would you rather win and score 2pts or lose and score 15pts”…the ones that think 15 and a loss are typically not thinking for themselves..they are expressing what they hear at home…and those are the hardest ones to coach, star at their role or earn the coach’s trust. Because good coaches don’t play kids they don’t trust in the big moments.

I believe the next generation will be just fine. What worries me the most about implementing a shot clock is the effect it will play at the 7th/8th grade level. A time that should be solely dedicated to fundamentals and skill building. Also, a time to NOT teach them plays, but teach them how to play. A shot clock at HS level will force coaches at that level to have to implement a faster approach (more sets, quick hitters, etc.) to prepare them for what they will face.
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You mean when they have the 3 point line in grades 4-8. A complete joke and a catastrophe for the fundamentals of young kids sports 🏀!
 
If you took a real poll. Anonymous were every coach, player and any other stake holder. I’m assuming it would be pretty obvious that the shot clock is wanted. Even if issue 1 passed I think you would get the 60%
 
419Jester said:
If you took a real poll. Anonymous were every coach, player and any other stake holder. I’m assuming it would be pretty obvious that the shot clock is wanted. Even if issue 1 passed I think you would get the 60%
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I think you might be surprised, especially if you put the poll with a "I don't care" option.
 
Coaches are all up in the newspapers saying they are in favor of it. And in private, they say "hell no". Fans and players want it, most coaches don't.

The worst example is the coach from Harrison a couple years ago. Said how much he wanted a shot clock in the papers and then stalled for an entire half in a playoff game, while he was losing the entire second half. Then said it was the right decision even after losing. And then all of his coaching buddies backed him for it. It's all an incestual circle jerk with coaches and refs.

That same coach hasn't won anything in 10 years. Yet everyone says how good of a coach he is. Because he has buds in the business.
 
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winbypin said:
We know. You don't like coaches that slow the play down as a strategy.
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Especially when the strategy doesn't work, then the coach says it was the right call. He stalled the entire second half WHEN HE WAS LOSING, never came close to taking the lead, and stole an opportunity for his team to win a playoff game. And he was only down like 4-5 points at halftime playing a normal game!!!! Then goes in the paper and says he favors a shot clock.

And then with all of that stupidity, coaches come to his defense. Complete stupidity.
 
Doublehelix said:
Especially when the strategy doesn't work, then the coach says it was the right call. He stalled the entire second half WHEN HE WAS LOSING, never came close to taking the lead, and stole an opportunity for his team to win a playoff game. And he was only down like 4-5 points at halftime playing a normal game!!!! Then goes in the paper and says he favors a shot clock.

And then with all of that stupidity, coaches come to his defense. Complete stupidity.
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Yes. We know you don't like these things.
 
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