What does OHSAA do about Marion Local in D7?

Yes. I've seen them both play. I think it would be a heck of a game. LC was more physical than Ironton as well, I'm not saying Ironton wasn't physical, but it was more the fact that they were more athletic.
So what exactly makes you think they'd be outphysicalled? Not taking offense, but genuinely curious. Often times MLs linebackers play with complete abandonment with their bodies and one play that sticks out MLs middle linebacker who also played RB picked up Hillsdales CB with one arm and essentially chucked him like a complete rag doll. It'd be a slobberknocker but outphysical? I'd have to see it to believe it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RBS
So what exactly makes you think they'd be outphysicalled? Not taking offense, but genuinely curious. Often times MLs linebackers play with complete abandonment with their bodies and one play that sticks out MLs middle linebacker who also played RB picked up Hillsdales CB with one arm and essentially chucked him like a complete rag doll. It'd be a slobberknocker but outphysical? I'd have to see it to believe it.
Isn't that what they said Kirtland was going to do to Coldwater? Asking for about all of Southern Mercer County.
 
So what exactly makes you think they'd be outphysicalled? Not taking offense, but genuinely curious. Often times MLs linebackers play with complete abandonment with their bodies and one play that sticks out MLs middle linebacker who also played RB picked up Hillsdales CB with one arm and essentially chucked him like a complete rag doll. It'd be a slobberknocker but outphysical? I'd have to see it to believe it.
Just an opinion. The line play on both sides of the ball is very impressive for LC. I am not a fan of either team so it's a non bias observation, but I don't think ML has faced a team as physical as LC. Someone mentioned earlier about ML playing up, the only team I saw that was as impressive with their physicality this past weekend was Watterson. I guess you could suggest Coldwater, but least your forget, Coldwater didn't even make it out of R18 when they were in it the last few years. And yes, I watched the DVII matchup. Hillsdale was grossly overmatched. They would have found the same outcome against any other team that played this past weekend.

On a side note, I was very surprised how many young guys LC had playing this year after replacing a ton of seniors last year. Lots of guys coming back.
 
Last edited:
THE MAC just plays better football then most everybody at D7 or D6 . If MSML was in D6 again this yr they would win it . If they were D5 they would have a decent chance . D4 they would get curb stomped and so on.So its up to the D6 7 schools to try to catch up to them
I watched ALL the games this year. There wouldn't be a good game against that ML team until D III.
 
It’s not a terrible idea. And obviously it works on a grand scale in the most popular sport on the planet.

So that means, OHSAA will never consider it
That's because it is a terrible idea.

Professional soccer at he highest level and high school football are similar only in that both are sports.

Every Marion Local championship has been won by a different team. It might be the same school, but every year most of the best players leave and every year younger and less experienced players are brought in. That is not at all the case in professional sports. Telling a 17 year old that he has to move up a division because his older neighbor's team was really good lacks basic fairness.
 
Last edited:
Let's go full blow European soccer on this thing.

All of the D2 to D7 regional finalists (8 teams) move up one division. The bottom two teams in each region by Harbin points move down a division.

For geographical reasons you would always promote and relegate to the corresponding region in the new division as the old division.
This has been brought up a few times with some of the people I go to games with. It would be a fun concept but I'm not sure how fair it would be considering graduating seniors and all. Still, in theory, it's a fun idea.
 
Just an opinion. The line play on both sides of the ball is very impressive for LC. I am not a fan of either team so it's a non bias observation, but I don't think ML has faced a team as physical as LC. Someone mentioned earlier about ML playing up, the only team I saw that was as impressive with their physicality this past weekend was Watterson. I guess you could suggest Coldwater, but least your forget, Coldwater didn't even make it out of R18 when they were in it the last few years. And yes, I watched the DVII matchup. Hillsdale was grossly overmatched. They would have found the same outcome against any other team that played this past weekend.

On a side note, I was very surprised how many young guys LC had playing this year after replacing a ton of seniors last year. Lots of guys coming back.
As you're stating, it's all opinion and speculation. From a ML perspective, it's going to interesting for us next year after graduating what has been arguably one of our best classes ever. It is true that many underclassmen on JV at ML actually could start for other teams, but it's still not varsity time for 4 qtrs. That's why it still boggles my mind why St. Mary's backed out on week 1? They have a lot coming back and we are an adjacent school to the south yet they chose to drive to Gallion I believe.
 
I watched ALL the games this year. There wouldn't be a good game against that ML team until D III.
ML fan here, and we had a really good game against a fellow D7 school in Minster. We had a great team this year, but I don’t get the fascination people have with lumping all schools in a certain division together. There are teams in EVERY division (granted, not many in D7) that would have challenged ML this year.
 
As you're stating, it's all opinion and speculation. From a ML perspective, it's going to interesting for us next year after graduating what has been arguably one of our best classes ever. It is true that many underclassmen on JV at ML actually could start for other teams, but it's still not varsity time for 4 qtrs. That's why it still boggles my mind why St. Mary's backed out on week 1? They have a lot coming back and we are an adjacent school to the south yet they chose to drive to Gallion I believe.
I imagine they should have a good chance to beat up on Galion pretty bad. Aside from maybe Shelby and Northmor (wild to say that), there isn't a lot of good football being played around that area.

You brought up a point I also have thought about when talking about ML competing against bigger schools. Sure, I buy the fact that they could compete against bigger schools in one game. Them moving up a division and scheduling a DIV or DIII schedule would wear them down over the course of the season. How often this year did ML have to keep the starters in a full 4 quarters? It would get even tougher during the playoffs. Depth would play an issue here.
 
ML fan here, and we had a really good game against a fellow D7 school in Minster. We had a great team this year, but I don’t get the fascination people have with lumping all schools in a certain division together. There are teams in EVERY division (granted, not many in D7) that would have challenged ML this year.
Agreed. Like I said, I watched all the games and ML wouldn't have had a "good" game unless they played Watterson or higher.

Everybody wants to focus on the "division" talk. That's BS. How many players does ML dress? 100? Every DII public school in SW Ohio would love to have that many players. So Goodwin basically has the talent pool of a large DII, DI program. Of course they are better.

Better culture, better team. If you want to make ML worse, you should encourage them to open enroll, maybe even recruit; then they could get a load of those individuals on the roster and ruin the TEAM. Then you could get a load of those individual parents in the stands sipping cocktails and fighting amongst themselves over playing time and scouting attention. Do this and ML could be big time too. Gimme a break. Leave them alone.
 
I imagine they should have a good chance to beat up on Galion pretty bad. Aside from maybe Shelby and Northmor (wild to say that), there isn't a lot of good football being played around that area.

You brought up a point I also have thought about when talking about ML competing against bigger schools. Sure, I buy the fact that they could compete against bigger schools in one game. Them moving up a division and scheduling a DIV or DIII schedule would wear them down over the course of the season. How often this year did ML have to keep the starters in a full 4 quarters? It would get even tougher during the playoffs. Depth would play an issue here.
Why would a DIII or DIV "wear them down". ML's roster is bigger? WTF?
 
every year most of the best players leave and every year younger and less experienced players are brought in.
That's right. And those younger and less experienced players continue to win; to their credit. Those younger and less experienced players also make it up to the varsity roster with the waves of younger and less experienced players coming on to varsity rosters of their competition. Your premise implies that all other rosters besides the promoted team's rosters stay the same and the newly promoted team exclusively rolls up new players. So, if it's a bad idea, that's fine, but you'll have to come up with another reason.

Also, I think 17 year olds at school like ML (and the other lower divisions that dominate) would view the promotion to a higher division as a reward for sustained success and challenge; not a punishment.

ML is a D7 school. No one can debate that. They do compete at a higher level than their D7 opponents though. You just have to ask yourself, are you content with being the big fish in a small pond or do you want to get into open water and see how deep you can swim?
 
Last edited:
Why would a DIII or DIV "wear them down". ML's roster is bigger? WTF?
Talent on talent, Marion is out matched by the bigger divisions. Not that they can't compete, they are just not as athletically gifted.
Marion is a disciplined team that is well coached (as with most MAC schools). Any team can lose if they are playing an opponent just significantly better than they are.
I think what they're saying is, IF Marion only played larger schools, they wouldn't have the chance to develop their JV team as much. This would result in the second and third string players not playing to the level that they have become accustomed to late in tight games. One game wouldn't make the difference, 8-9 would be a different story. Coaching and study and technique will only allow them to play so far above their talent gap.
 
In the case of Ironton/MAC, the MAC plays an 8-game conference schedule. ML and the like’s OOC slots are 1 & 2 — Ironton typically plays Wheelersburg in wk1; wk2 might be the only opportunity if Ironton discontinues the Jackson series.
Ironton and Burg play week 6 in 25
 
People need to just give it up...ML is a D7 school by numbers....legit numbers. So, unless more people move in over the next year they will be D7 again in 2026 when the new divisions are announced....so basically suck it up and sounds like other D7 schools need to step up their game.
 
Marion Local gets running clocked by either of the two teams that were in the DIII game. Did you watch it?

I thought the DIV field was weak this year. They probably would have beat either of those teams.

DV they get beat by Ironton. The Terry kid was impressive. They probably lose to LC too. LC out physicals them in that game.

Compete, yes. Run through, no.

What about Massillon? Any thoughts?
I watched parts of all of the championship games.

In my initial post, I said that MSML would annually make it to the regional finals and beyond - one or two loss regular season records would likely be the norm. What they would do in weeks 14-16 would probably look different depending on the year.
 
That's right. And those younger and less experienced players continue to win; to their credit. Those younger and less experienced players also make it up to the varsity roster with the waves of younger and less experienced players coming on to varsity rosters of their competition. Your premise implies that all other rosters besides the promoted team's rosters stay the same and the newly promoted team exclusively rolls up new players. So, if it's a bad idea, that's fine, but you'll have to come up with another reason.

Also, I think 17 year olds at school like ML (and the other lower divisions that dominate) would view the promotion to a higher division as a reward for sustained success and challenge; not a punishment.

ML is a D7 school. No one can debate that. They do compete at a higher level than their D7 opponents though. You just have to ask yourself, are you content with being the big fish in a small pond or do you want to get into open water and see how deep you can swim?
Promotion? Seriously? The kids could give a crap less about a "promotion"! Everyone needs to remember that this senior class at ML was one of the best ever - at a record setting program. So because of their success ML teams moving fwd have a different set of rules.
 
Marion Local gets running clocked by either of the two teams that were in the DIII game. Did you watch it?

I thought the DIV field was weak this year. They probably would have beat either of those teams.

DV they get beat by Ironton. The Terry kid was impressive. They probably lose to LC too. LC out physicals them in that game.

Compete, yes. Run through, no.

What about Massillon? Any thoughts?
Let's assume your take is entirely logical and accurate. If so, then that is exactly why they should stay at D7 where they belong. And, proof positive you are either trolling or have not thought things through, If they can not win at D5, why even bring up MW?
 
Let's go full blow European soccer on this thing.

All of the D2 to D7 regional finalists (8 teams) move up one division. The bottom two teams in each region by Harbin points move down a division.

For geographical reasons you would always promote and relegate to the corresponding region in the new division as the old division.
So what makes this different than professional sports? Oh yes, professional athletes do not all graduate out in one year.

So school XYZ has 25 seniors who are gifted and win state their senior year. Now the juniors and sophomores who take over and have never seen the field for varsity football are going to move up a division?

I still believe some sort of power ranking would be preferable over this. Power rank every 128 schools into divisions from bottom to top. So Marion Local may be a D3, Coldwater D4, Minster D4, Versailles D5 and so on. That leaves Covington at D7 comfortably away from a MAC school and capable of winning. The conference then becomes real competitive if a D6 upsets a D3, instant bragging rights as teams are ranked by expected power not by student population. The cheer "overrated " becomes the greatest chant ever.
 
So what makes this different than professional sports? Oh yes, professional athletes do not all graduate out in one year.

So school XYZ has 25 seniors who are gifted and win state their senior year. Now the juniors and sophomores who take over and have never seen the field for varsity football are going to move up a division?

I still believe some sort of power ranking would be preferable over this. Power rank every 128 schools into divisions from bottom to top. So Marion Local may be a D3, Coldwater D4, Minster D4, Versailles D5 and so on. That leaves Covington at D7 comfortably away from a MAC school and capable of winning. The conference then becomes real competitive if a D6 upsets a D3, instant bragging rights as teams are ranked by expected power not by student population. The cheer "overrated " becomes the greatest chant ever.
For all those that are so adamant that success should be met with forcibly moving up, do any of you have any idea when most injuries happen in athletics? Middle to end where fatigue sets in. I realize this is not your intention, but I've said it many times and will again. ML, the same as many other schools, are NOT going to go along with or participate in something that is not in the best interest of our kids. Most years we have multiple kids going both ways and this idea is screaming so what if a few kids get hurt.
 
That's right. And those younger and less experienced players continue to win; to their credit. Those younger and less experienced players also make it up to the varsity roster with the waves of younger and less experienced players coming on to varsity rosters of their competition. Your premise implies that all other rosters besides the promoted team's rosters stay the same and the newly promoted team exclusively rolls up new players. So, if it's a bad idea, that's fine, but you'll have to come up with another reason.
You think that I implied that ML is the only high school in the state with a senior class that graduated?
Also, I think 17 year olds at school like ML (and the other lower divisions that dominate) would view the promotion to a higher division as a reward for sustained success and challenge; not a punishment.
You thought wrong on this too.
ML is a D7 school. No one can debate that. They do compete at a higher level than their D7 opponents though. You just have to ask yourself, are you content with being the big fish in a small pond or do you want to get into open water and see how deep you can swim?
Why? Losing in the 3rd round in D3 wouldn't be as much fun or gratifying as being D7 state champions.
 
Last edited:
I know they are far apart but would love to see a series of Marion local and Ironton
I'm not saying any particular schools, especially not Ironton because I know of no communication with them, but a lot of schools with open dates are wanting 1 year only where ML would travel. Ironton has a long history of competitiveness and it would be neat to see a match up. That would be a 4 hour trip and expensive to make happen. The current playoff system in my opinion has everything screwed up. All on Friday night and wanting to have 2 home playoff games is making things impossible for some schools.
 
Why? Losing in the 3rd round in D3 wouldn't be as much fun or gratifying as being D7 state champions.

Would it??? It may not be as gratifying as a D7 state title, but it would possibly be as gratifying as their 16th in D7. Not that I'd jump to D3 but certainly 1 or 2 divisions, if that were allowable. I feel like anyone after that level of success would opt up if they could.
 
Leveling the field, or fairness, is not some new concept. The powers that be decided that CB was the best approach. So TCC wouldn't dominate D4, or Hoban D3 etc, and a very small handful of others. Regardless of enrollment. (Resulting in a slew of unintended consequences for the majority of everyone else). I am personally against both options but pro-CB vs. pro-power rank is a legit debate. I'm just pointing out how some people define "fair" depending whose ox is being gored.

I like the idea of allowing teams to opt up a division at a time, voluntarily. No CB. No success factor. 4 public divs. 2 privates. Everyone has their own opinion.
 
Would it??? It may not be as gratifying as a D7 state title, but it would possibly be as gratifying as their 16th in D7. Not that I'd jump to D3 but certainly 1 or 2 divisions, if that were allowable. I feel like anyone after that level of success would opt up if they could.
No absolutely not! What I find astonishing about all this is that some assume this is even a conversation in the ML community. As if we sit around a crystal ball looking at what the future talent will be with a could we line of thinking and Looking at films of upper divisions contemplating such a ridiculous notion. Every starter but 2 or 3 will not be on the team next year, and even when getting playing time in 2nd half, the back ups struggled often to be successful. Nothing would lead anyone in decision making positions at ML to believe this is a good scenario to put these kids in a situation like that.
 
Top