Top Ten Athletes in LaSalle History

LS1944 said:
How bout we discuss Chris SMith?????? I nominate him. LS 2nd Parade All American in FB.

I would say my heart is set on Hasselbeck, Haucke, Burden and Posey, Shields, Smith. I agree on Bader as well. I think you guys are making a good case for AJ....... How bout the Watson kid?
Click to expand...

Chris Smith in 1980 was GCL first team, all city, and All-American by both Parade magazine and the National Coaches' Association.

Here are some drawbacks to Chris Smith. His 1980 team went 3-7 loaded with talent. Dave Hock led the city in punt average. Mario Russo led the city in kickoff returns. Tom Doerger made all city and all state. Dave Hock also made all city. Mark Schmutte and Dave Ginn got first team GCL. Dan Shields, Paul Burger, and Mike McKeever made GCL second team. Smith was the featured runner on the 1980 team and scored 56 points on nine touchdowns and one two point conversion. He doesn't even make La Salle's top ten list for football scoring. He finished 24th in the city in scoring in 1980. He rushed for 1001 yards on 155 carries for a 6.5 average. That was 12th in the city in rushing. His 6.5 average put him 6th on La Salle's all time list for rushing.

Smith was also La Salle's leading rusher on the 1979 team rushing for 535 yards on 115 carries for an 4.6 average. That put him 31st in the city. His 1979 La Salle team went 5-5 .
 
Nieman vs. Shields comparison

1983 - A.J. Nieman is named Enquirer player of the year for football
1984 - Doug Shields gets all city honorable mention.

1982 - Nieman is 9th in city passing 96 of 183 for 1156 yards
1983 - Nieman leads the city in passing 202 of 361 for 2673 yards
Nieman's two year totals 298 of 544 for 3829 yards

1984 - Shields finishes second in the city in passing 132 of 230 for 1914 yds.
1985 - Shields is 24 in city passing 69 of 128 for 925 yards
Shields two year totals 201 of 358 for 2839 yards.

1982 - Nieman 18th in city passing for points with 7 TDs for 42 points
1983-Nieman 1st in city passing for points with 22 TDs for 132 points.
Two year totals for Nieman - 29 TDs for 174 points.

1984 - Shields finishes 5th in the city passing for points 16 TDs, 2 PATs for 100 pts.
1985 - Shields 9th in city passing for points 11 TDs for 66 points
Two year totals for Shields 27 TDs for 166 points

Nieman beats Shields in two year yards passing 3829 to 2839
Nieman beats Shields in two year TDs 29 to 27 and in points passing 174 to 166.
 
Last edited:
Lancermania said:
1983 - A.J. Nieman is named Enquirer player of the year for football
1984 - Doug Shields gets all city honorable mention.

1983 - Nieman leads the city in passing 202 of 361 for 2673 yards
1984 - Shields finishes second in the city in passing 132 of 230 for 1914 yds.
1983 - Nieman leads the city in passing for points with 22 TD passes for 132 points.
1984 - Shields finishes 5th in the city passing for points 16 TDs, 2 PATs for 100 pts.

Nieman beats Shields in yards passing 2673 to 1914
Nieman beats Shields in TDs 22 to 16 and in points 132 to 100.
Click to expand...

What about Shields in '85? And Nieman in '82. Both were 2 year starters yes? Was Nieman's best year '83 when they went 5-5, or '82 when they went 8-2?????????????

And if Chris Smith gets dragged down by being on a 3-7 team, then Shields gets extra points for going 16-5 over 2 years as a starter, leading us to a win over Princeton, and into a playoff spot right? AJ was 13-7. Jack Hess was 15-3-2 I believe.

And Shields was a much better baseball player.
 
Lancermania said:
Chris Smith in 1980 was GCL first team, all city, and All-American by both Parade magazine and the National Coaches' Association.

Here are some drawbacks to Chris Smith. His 1980 team went 3-7 loaded with talent. Dave Hock led the city in punt average. Mario Russo led the city in kickoff returns. Tom Doerger made all city and all state. Dave Hock also made all city. Mark Schmutte and Dave Ginn got first team GCL. Dan Shields, Paul Burger, and Mike McKeever made GCL second team. Smith was the featured runner on the 1980 team and scored 56 points on nine touchdowns and one two point conversion. He doesn't even make La Salle's top ten list for football scoring. He finished 24th in the city in scoring in 1980. He rushed for 1001 yards on 155 carries for a 6.5 average. That was 12th in the city in rushing. His 6.5 average put him 6th on La Salle's all time list for rushing.

Smith was also La Salle's leading rusher on the 1979 team rushing for 535 yards on 115 carries for an 4.6 average. That put him 31st in the city. His 1979 La Salle team went 5-5 .
Click to expand...


That '80 team will always be one that I'll NEVER understand. Unless someone tells me they were all on dope..... or some were. They were 3-0 having won at the Pit and were tied with Moeller 0-0 at half time. Moeller won 12-0 and the team went ice cold. It was awful to see that talent wasted. Some all time underachievers on that team for sure. But Smith was AllAmerican...... and good enough to get a scholarship to ND.
 
I ran into a guy at Crossroads who told me he was the best athlete in La Salle history. I think his name was Bart Conley.
 
I've edited the football passing totals on both Shields and Nieman to show two years for both.
The La Salle baseball stats don't back up your statement about Shields being a better baseball player at La Salle. They show A.J. Nieman with the lowest ERA in school history at 0.37 with a 5-0 record in 1984 and the third highest strikeout total at 66.
 
Last edited:
Shields played CF. And gee whiz....... one guy goes to Holy Cross..... (I'm sorry..... If he was so good as a QB or Pitcher, he could have at least gone to a MAC school) another to Southern Illinois and is so good he is in the SIU Hall of Fame, and on the ALL TIME MVC outfield with guys like Joe Carter, Kirby Puckett, and Steve FInley!

But I'm not sure we should be arguing "one or the other" We may be convincing each other they BOTH belong...... possibly????
 
The Shields v Nieman argument is MOOT. Neither are top ten IMO.

Hasselbeck
Haucke
Jerry Doerger
Chris Smith
Ty Douthard
Allen Bader
Dean Fulmer
Doug Bockenstette
Chandler Burden
Devier Posey.



For the record...... I take AJ as the better QB, but Shields as the better athlete. AJ even made kickers look good at the WR position.
 
Actually before he went to Holy Cross he went to Cincinnati and than transfered to Holy Cross; at the time Holy Cross was #1 in 1-AA football polls but didn't play in the postseason because they were trying to be Ivy League type school. Out of high school could have went to Rice, Duke or Vanderbuilt but chose to stay home. Shields went to Southern Illinois, are they a powerhouse?
 
They probably both belong but with recent talents maybe not. I think it should be looked at Top 5 in each decade.
 
bigonetwo said:
The Shields v Nieman argument is MOOT. Neither are top ten IMO.

Hasselbeck
Haucke
Jerry Doerger
Chris Smith
Ty Douthard
Allen Bader
Dean Fulmer
Doug Bockenstette
Chandler Burden
Devier Posey.
Click to expand...

No way you can take Dean Fulmer over Steve Padgett.

1. While Fulmer did win a state title in track--the 1600, so did Padgett. Steve Padgett's winning time in the 3200 in 2000 is still shown eight years later as the State Tournament Division I record.

2. Padgett ran 8:54.97 in the 3200 at the Golden West Invitational. That time still stands as the All Time Greater Cincinnati city record. Fulmer does not hold any La Salle school records or city records like Padgett.

3. Fulmer never won a state cross country title but Padgett did in 1999.


Padgett got a scholarship to Michigan State and was Big Ten Freshman of the year, also first team all Big Ten as a freshman.

At La Salle, Padgett was named an All-American in both Cross Country and Track and Field.

No way you can put Fulmer on and not Padgett.
 
LM how do you leave Neal Neyer off the list???? he is the face of the wrestling program. Shield was great, but was he one of the top 5 quarterbacks in the state during his playing years ? Neyer was in his sport. Mike Schneider was incredible signed with OSU. Keith Reganhard was ranked #2 in the state behind Cris Carter as a receiver his senior year and was a state qualifer in the 300 IH. Could have played in the Big Ten or SEC. He an AJ Nieman were the best 1-2, I have ever seen on the field.
 
Lancers91 said:
Actually before he went to Holy Cross he went to Cincinnati and than transfered to Holy Cross; at the time Holy Cross was #1 in 1-AA football polls but didn't play in the postseason because they were trying to be Ivy League type school. Out of high school could have went to Rice, Duke or Vanderbuilt but chose to stay home. Shields went to Southern Illinois, are they a powerhouse?
Click to expand...

Shields was 2 time All MVC at CF..... the conference that has Wichita State, Creighton,etc....... And in 1990 he was Player of the Year. Led SIU to the NCAA tourney and they won 2 games there. So while not necessarily a year in year out powerhouse, they were when he was there. And he was good enough to make the SIU Hall of Fame. In addition he's on the ALL TIME Missouri Valley Conference Baseball team. Now....... Show me the Holy Cross record book and Hall of Fame.


I like bigonetwo's list...... with LM's change. I bow to LM's distance running expertise.

Haucke
Hasselbeck
Doerger
Smith
Douthard
Bader
Bockenstette
Padgett
Burden
Posey


Folks left off.... 70's Mike Schneider, Ted Duggins, Darryl Meadows, Neal Neyer, Scott Trefzger
80's Shields (I'm reversing myself... Smith was a better athlete) and Niemann, Tim Naehring.
90's Watson, Zac Day, Schrand, Bart Conley
00's Orr, Martin


I say we make a deal....... if yo wanna put someone on bigonetwo's/LM's list, ya gotta decide who comes off and why?


Who's first to be challenged?
 
Last edited:
LS1944 said:
Shields was 2 time All MVC at CF..... the conference that has Wichita State, Creighton,etc....... And in 1990 he was Player of the Year. Led SIU to the NCAA tourney and they won 2 games there. So while not necessarily a year in year out powerhouse, they were when he was there. And he was good enough to make the SIU Hall of Fame. In addition he's on the ALL TIME Missouri Valley Conference Baseball team. Now....... Show me the Holy Cross record book and Hall of Fame.


I like bigonetwo's list...... with LM's change. I bow to LM's distance running expertise.

Haucke
Hasselbeck
Doerger
Smith
Douthard
Bader
Bockenstette
Padgett
Burden
Posey


Folks left off.... 70's Mike Schneider, Ted Duggins, Darryl Meadows, Neal Neyer, Scott Trefzger
80's Shields (I'm reversing myself... Smith was a better athlete) and Niemann, Tim Naehring.
90's Watson, Zac Day, Schrand, Bart Conley
00's Orr, Martin


I say we make a deal....... if yo wanna put someone on bigonetwo's/LM's list, ya gotta decide who comes off and why?


Who's first to be challenged?
Click to expand...

Guys I made a mistake not considering Neal Neyer. I HAVE to put him on. LS only state champ as a Jr then went up in weight and finished 3d as a Sr. He went to Wisconsin...... and they were good then. I think they finished 4th in the NCAA's while he was there. He most assuredly belongs.

Now as to whom I/we remove........ I'm gonna have to say "Badgers..... we don't need TWO stinkin Badgers......" And nominate Jerry D for 11th place.

Sorry about the oversight.
 
Dave Esterkamp led the basketball team to a State Title. Played at BGSU, presently playing in Europe.
 
upward said:
LM how do you leave Neal Neyer off the list???? he is the face of the wrestling prograam
Click to expand...

If you had read all the posts you would have seen I was on Neal Neyer bandwagon from the beginning. Here is what I said at first:

"Neal Neyer was a state champion in wrestling in 1976 and also led the wrestling team to a 4th place finish at state which at that time was the highest finish by a Cincinnati area team".

It was LS1944 who questioned Neyer's credentials:

"BUT it does matter if a college coach felt you were good enough to give you a scholarship. It says alot about your HS career. I think we should use that especially in the cases of Neal Neyer and Scott Trefzger, who both were state champs. I don't believe they were thought that highly of by college recruiters on the D1 level."

I then responded to his post this way:

"I just like what Neyer did for the wrestling program by winning state and by his team coming in 4th at state. If you've been following wrestling, it has been one of our worst sports. Some years we were like almost 100 point behind the 3rd place team in the GCLS."

Neal Neyer did graduate from Wisconsin. According to Ohio Wrestling History which shows all Ohio high school graduates who were All Americans, he was an All American in 1977 in the 165 pound weigh class. We still don't know for sure if Neyer got a D1 scholarship out of high school. We do know for a fact that he wrestled at a big time wrestling school in Wisconsin.
 
Last edited:
Lancermania said:
If you had read all the posts you would have seen I was on Neal Neyer bandwagon from the beginning. Here is what I said at first:

"Neal Neyer was a state champion in wrestling in 1976 and also led the wrestling team to a 4th place finish at state which at that time was the highest finish by a Cincinnati area team".

It was LS1944 who questioned Neyer's credentials:

"BUT it does matter if a college coach felt you were good enough to give you a scholarship. It says alot about your HS career. I think we should use that especially in the cases of Neal Neyer and Scott Trefzger, who both were state champs. I don't believe they were thought that highly of by college recruiters on the D1 level."

I then responded to his post this way:

"I just like what Neyer did for the wrestling program by winning state and by his team coming in 4th at state. If you've been following wrestling, it has been one of our worst sports. Some years we were like almost 100 point behind the 3rd place team in the GCLS."

Neal Neyer did graduate from Wisconsin. According to Ohio Wrestling History which shows all Ohio high school graduates who were All Americans, he was an All American in 1977 in the 165 pound weigh class. We still don't know for sure if Neyer got a D1 scholarship out of high school. We do know for a fact that he wrestled at a big time wrestling school in Wisconsin.
Click to expand...


I did question whether or not Neyer got a scholarship. Having been satisfied with an answer........ I'm OK with him on the list, by all means.

SO we have .......

Haucke, Hasselbeck, NEYER, Smith, Douthard, Bader, BOckenstette, Padgett, Posey, Chandler.......

Pretty good list: An All American BBall Player, 2 all American RB's, An All American WR/state champ runner, 3 top level CC/distance guys, a state champ wrestler, and a double state champ thrower/collegelineman, and an All American TE.


Dave Esterkamp has been brought up......... I say "no' based on the fact that I rank Haucke, Joe Gampfer, and Ted Duggins as better players... possibly Orr as well. So he's on the first team all time basketball team, but not a top 10 guy.


WHo do we remove from the list if we add Esterkamp as well?
 
Neal Neyer is a state champion.........he's a no brainer. Dave Esterkamp belongs ...no doubt...anyone that was around during the basketball team's title run would say he was as good a player during that month than anyone in the state. Every team put their best player on him and he delivered everytime....Question ????????? What does Esterkamp have that all of the other basketball players listed don't have... a State Title. That is the ultimate stat and the one that counts...anyone and everyone in high school sports would agree....Esterkamp made everyone around him better. He tops the list in my book when it comes to listing basketball greats !
 
upward said:
Neal Neyer is a state champion.........he's a no brainer. Dave Esterkamp belongs ...no doubt...anyone that was around during the basketball team's title run would say he was as good a player during that month than anyone in the state. Every team put their best player on him and he delivered everytime....Question ????????? What does Esterkamp have that all of the other basketball players listed don't have... a State Title. That is the ultimate stat and the one that counts...anyone and everyone in high school sports would agree....Esterkamp made everyone around him better. He tops the list in my book when it comes to listing basketball greats !
Click to expand...

Sorry. I saw him play and I don't agree. Conley and Ahearn were as important to that team.

I also saw Duggins and Gampfer play.... Both were better. Can't say I saw Haucke, but I saw Joe Gampfer play Dan Federmann and LaSalle Thompson to a draw. I also saw Ted Duggins manhandle John Paxson. I also saw Don Hasselbeck play Rick Apke even up (twice).

OK Esterkamp was the best player on the team that won state. You've made your case for him......... So which all american football player, all american basketball player, or state champ distance runner do we remove??????
 
LS1944, I remember you saying you wanted an entire season team not just a team that made a run at the end like the 1996 team which finished last in the league. Where was Esterkamp during the GCL games? St. Xavier and Moeller tied for the league title with 10-2 records. Elder went 8-4. Our Lancers finished dead last at 7-5. They also finished 14-6 during the regular season for an 8th place finish in the final city poll.

I went to all the 1996 tournament games. In the state semi-final against Lakewood St. Edwards, Esterkamp scored 33 points. In the state championship game against St. John's, Esterkamp was double and triple teamed. It was the guard Craig Conley's turn to score 27 and lead us to the title. Btw, Fleming did a masteful plan of coaching to our strengths in that game. His halftime plan was to have our guards drive toward the basket every time since our inside game was neutralized by the Johnies stopping Esterkamp. We had steady trips to the foul line in the second half with Conley hitting 10-13 foul shots.
 
Other state champions!

We need to look at each of the individual state champions not on our list to make sure they don't belong on the top ten list. Last start with Scott Trefzger.

On the positive side, he was La Salle first state champion in 1974. His claim to fame is that he scored at the state meet for three straight years in diving:

1972 - 5th
1973 - 3rd
1974 - 1st

On the negative side, he trained at UC with a non-La Salle coach. While he attended La Salle and competed in meets for La Salle, he was not coached by a La Salle coach. Also, we don't know if he got any DI offers for college diving.
 
Last edited:
LS1944...if my memory serves me...duggins was injuried and never the same during his high school career. when you begin to breakdown and critique the individuals like haucke, duggins, gampher, vs. esterkamp...which individual had a better supporting cast ??????? not esterkamp. if i remember correctly duggins had a loaded group around him. another point to take into consideration...a hot topic during the lancer title run of '96 was dave signing early with BGSU...most people thought that if Dave would have waited until the end of the season that he would / or could have signed with a Major D1 school. on the comment on ahern ??????? good player....conley was nails during the touney but esterkamp was one of the best players in the state during that tourney...that's my take. as for the top 10...nieman, neyer, bockenstette, nehring, pagett, esterkamp, douthard, posey, bader, burden. others......sheilds, doerger, fulmer,

LM another thread to consider.....top 10 greatest 1 year seasons by an athlete. wiz white, tailback on the 1st GCL champ. football team, 6th man on the basketball team that won the state title, qualified to the state championship in the 100 meter dash...an incredible year for any athlete !!!!!!!!!!!
 
upward said:
LM another thread to consider.....top 10 greatest 1 year seasons by an athlete. wiz white, tailback on the 1st GCL champ. football team, 6th man on the basketball team that won the state title, qualified to the state championship in the 100 meter dash...an incredible year for any athlete !!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

We already have that with this thread. Posey and Burden were mulitple sport stars this year and both made the list. Wiz White contributed very little to the state championship team, didn't make the finals in the 100 at state. Lee Heath almost won the state 100 in 1988, missed winning by an eyelash, got a DI scholarship to Tennesse for football. Wouldn't he be ranked higher than White? Wiz White ended up at Ohio University in Athens for football. He also was a traitor to La Salle, left in the middle of the 1997 basketbal season for Winton Woods, played against us in the tournament after playing for us during the regular season. Is Wiz's whole merit for this list that he played three sports? So what, many others did too.
 
Last edited:
LittleCardsDad said:
I ran into a guy at Crossroads who told me he was the best athlete in La Salle history. I think his name was Bart Conley.
Click to expand...

I thought Bart moved to Las Vegas. He is the only one that could've told you that. He gave up a potential career in the NFL by transferring to UC. OOOPS- I mean transferring to Rumpke park to play softball.
 
Lancermania said:
We already have that with this thread. Posey and Burden were mulitple sport stars this year and both made the list. Wiz White contributed very little to the state championship team, didn't make the finals in the 100 at state. Lee Heath almost won the state 100 in 1988, missed winning by an eyelash, got a DI scholarship to Tennesse for football. Wouldn't he be ranked higher than White? Wiz White ended up at Ohio University in Athens for football. He also was a traitor to La Salle, left in the middle of the 1997 basketbal season for Winton Woods, played against us in the tournament after playing for us during the regular season. Is Wiz's whole merit for this list that he played three sports? So what, many others did too.
Click to expand...

Incorrect- Lee Heath did not get a scholarship to Tenn. It was revoked when he had another individual take his SAT. Hep Cronin did him a favor taking him as the 3,000,000,0000 pick in the draft that year.
 
upward said:
LS1944...if my memory serves me...duggins was injuried and never the same during his high school career. when you begin to breakdown and critique the individuals like haucke, duggins, gampher, vs. esterkamp...which individual had a better supporting cast ??????? not esterkamp. if i remember correctly duggins had a loaded group around him. another point to take into consideration...a hot topic during the lancer title run of '96 was dave signing early with BGSU...most people thought that if Dave would have waited until the end of the season that he would / or could have signed with a Major D1 school. on the comment on ahern ??????? good player....conley was nails during the touney but esterkamp was one of the best players in the state during that tourney...that's my take. as for the top 10...nieman, neyer, bockenstette, nehring, pagett, esterkamp, douthard, posey, bader, burden. others......sheilds, doerger, fulmer,

LM another thread to consider.....top 10 greatest 1 year seasons by an athlete. wiz white, tailback on the 1st GCL champ. football team, 6th man on the basketball team that won the state title, qualified to the state championship in the 100 meter dash...an incredible year for any athlete !!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Severely sprained ankle during his Sr year. THus LS didn't repeat a trip to the Final 4 and Alter won state (1978). THe ankle continued to hobble him at Xavier U. LS had gone to the final 4 when he was a JR. And he did have a good cast around him with WOeste, Junker, Lewis, Roherich, and Jerry Doerger. Bob Schroek off the bench hitting bombs as well.


As for your top ten list..... it has 13 names on it, and it leaves off Dick Haucke and DOn Hasselbeck. Wanna talk about "no brainers": Haucke and Hasselbeck are the only 2 LS athletes in the LaRosas HS Hall of fame. You can't be serious and leave them off
 
Lancermania said:
We need to look at each of the individual state champions not on our list to make sure they don't belong on the top ten list. Last start with Scott Trefzger.

On the positive side, he was La Salle first state champion in 1974. His claim to fame is that he scored at the state meet for three straight years in diving:

1972 - 5th
1973 - 3rd
1974 - 1st

On the negative side, he trained at UC with a non-La Salle coach. While he attended La Salle and competed in meets for La Salle, he was not coached by a La Salle coach. Also, we don't know if he got any DI offers for college diving.
Click to expand...


We have to do some digging here..... I mean, if the guy got an offer to Indiana or something then he's legit. But it's possible that all he did was a really good cannonball ........ IM KIDDING!!!!!!!
 
LS1944...your correct haucke, and hasselback are no brainers...but give some of those others time. several of the above mentioned were invited to the larosa's hall of fame luncheon as "athlete of the year" candidates. clarifying... i listed 10...others ment my next tier. the list is difficult to narrow down when given this group.
 
killa said:
Incorrect- Lee Heath did not get a scholarship to Tenn. It was revoked when he had another individual take his SAT. Hep Cronin did him a favor taking him as the 3,000,000,0000 pick in the draft that year.
Click to expand...

I don't care if it was revoked. The point is that he got an offer from Tenn. for his football talent. Tenn is a big time program. Ohio U. is not in the same stratisphere with them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top