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We’ll never know. They went 31-31 in 2020 before they changed course and started liquidating assets to lower payroll, damaging the 2021 team’s chances before that season even started.
They gave up.
The Official 2024 Reds season thread
- Thread starter RazorRamon
- Start date
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
Amazing how he tries to wiggle out of his various illogical, contradicting comments and he just keeps getting in deeper. It does keep the off-season amusing.
RazorRamon
Well-known member
And then hope they don’t flop. You can try to cover all of your bases but sometimes “proven” players flop. Moose was a recent example. So you do hope they work out
RazorRamon
Well-known member
I “hope” the Reds spend on a proven starter and then “hope” they have a good, injury free year. I “hope” they get Duvall or Soler and “hope”;they don’t tank. I “hope” the young core takes a step forward and become great major league players. In Indiandads world he seems to have some guaranteed formula. Maybe he does, he should bottle it and sell it to the MLB owners cuz a lot of them need help 
Guaranteed? No. But certainly better than "hope".I “hope” the Reds spend on a proven starter and then “hope” they have a good, injury free year. I “hope” they get Duvall or Soler and “hope”;they don’t tank. I “hope” the young core takes a step forward and become great major league players. In Indiandads world he seems to have some guaranteed formula. Maybe he does, he should bottle it and sell it to the MLB owners cuz a lot of them need help
14Red
Well-known member
Most of you guys are great fans. You want the team to go buy the best talent, but you'll rip them for months if a guy fails. And then of course if you ever pass on a FA or decide to move on from someone, then the owner's cheap and doens't care about winning.
Basically, many of you are never satisfied. This franchise did a one year turn around - tear down and rebuild, was one day from making the playoffs and many of you still are not happy. It's easy to spend others money, and honestly, it really does not matter what you think.
This team has a HUGE upside going into next season. Most of its young core of players are on their rookie deals, can they go get some guys to plug holes, Yes, absolutely. But you need to be smart about it. Secondly, it takes two to tango so just because you want someone doesn't mean they'll come to Cincy. Time will tell.
Basically, many of you are never satisfied. This franchise did a one year turn around - tear down and rebuild, was one day from making the playoffs and many of you still are not happy. It's easy to spend others money, and honestly, it really does not matter what you think.
This team has a HUGE upside going into next season. Most of its young core of players are on their rookie deals, can they go get some guys to plug holes, Yes, absolutely. But you need to be smart about it. Secondly, it takes two to tango so just because you want someone doesn't mean they'll come to Cincy. Time will tell.
14Red
Well-known member
Over the next few weeks, I'll take a deeper dive into the 2023 season. To kick it off, lets go back to opening day...
the lineup that day...
2B India
CF Friedl
DH Fraley
C Stephenson
1B Vossler
RF Myers
3B Steer
LF Benson
SS Barrero
Votto was still recovering from shoulder surgery; he'd had a setback in spring training that probably should had been a precursor that his ability to play long stretches was over.
The lineup construction seemed pretty safe, India / Friedl at the top getting on base, FA pickup Fraley, Stephenson, Vossler - who'd had a great spring and FA pickup Wil Myers would be a solid middle of the lineup to build around. Hunter Greene was the opening day starter. The plan worked great in the first, kind of. India, Friedl and Fraley loaded the bases with no one out, Tyler Stephenson got a run in, but grounded into a DP and the first went away quickly with only 1 run. Greene only lasted 3 1/3 innings, giving up 3 runs, and 82 pitches. The Reds tied it in the 4th and it stayed that way until the Pirates pushed across a run.
The Reds won the next two over the Pirates and beat the Cubs to start the season at 3-1. Some common names we saw those first few games other than the ones mentioned above were Stuart Fairchild, Curt Casali, Luke Maile, Connor Overton, Reiver Sanmartin...the next stretch was not so good.
the lineup that day...
2B India
CF Friedl
DH Fraley
C Stephenson
1B Vossler
RF Myers
3B Steer
LF Benson
SS Barrero
Votto was still recovering from shoulder surgery; he'd had a setback in spring training that probably should had been a precursor that his ability to play long stretches was over.
The lineup construction seemed pretty safe, India / Friedl at the top getting on base, FA pickup Fraley, Stephenson, Vossler - who'd had a great spring and FA pickup Wil Myers would be a solid middle of the lineup to build around. Hunter Greene was the opening day starter. The plan worked great in the first, kind of. India, Friedl and Fraley loaded the bases with no one out, Tyler Stephenson got a run in, but grounded into a DP and the first went away quickly with only 1 run. Greene only lasted 3 1/3 innings, giving up 3 runs, and 82 pitches. The Reds tied it in the 4th and it stayed that way until the Pirates pushed across a run.
The Reds won the next two over the Pirates and beat the Cubs to start the season at 3-1. Some common names we saw those first few games other than the ones mentioned above were Stuart Fairchild, Curt Casali, Luke Maile, Connor Overton, Reiver Sanmartin...the next stretch was not so good.
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Baloney. We only rip them if the signing made little sense in the first place. For example, expecting a slow-footed, longtime 3rd baseman to be a competent second baseman from ages 31 to 35 (Moustakas). Or signing a Japanese export to a 3-year, $21M deal and then three weeks later signing a better outfielder, ensuring you just paid $21M for a platoon or bench player (Akiyama). Notice how no one here was ripping the Reds a new one when Myers didn’t pan out — that signing actually had logic; it just didn’t work out.
The owner is most certainly cheap.
Of course we’re not satisfied. The Reds haven’t advanced in the playoffs since 1995, by far the longest drought in the majors. And they basically punted on a chance to make the playoffs this year.
It’s the fans’ money, given that the Reds have never asked for capital from the various owners aside from their initial 2006 investment. It’s not coming out of the ownership group’s personal coffers — Castellini has seen to that, valuing that over winning.
Sure it does. The fans thinking a winning team was at hand drove large-scale ticket sales over the summer, filling the Reds’ ledger with unexpected revenue that needs to be used toward putting the best possible product on the field
The smart move would be to acquire a couple of the best players available (with reasonable number of years) instead of penny-pinching and acting like they can’t afford it.
Obviously. But as long as the money is close, players should want to come play for a team that appears to have a good potential to win, in a city that doesn’t have the overbearing media scrutiny of some bigger markets.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
We all know that you rarely deal in facts, but at least get the simple stuff correct. Fraley came over in the Winker trade. Jeeeez. Fraley has 3 more Arb years left, cannot be a FA for a long time.
Do us a favor. Take your deep dive into 2023 and just write it in a spiral notebook please. We don't need to see it. I will even buy you the notebook and crayons.
RazorRamon
Well-known member
No doubt, but nothing in life is guaranteed
14Red
Well-known member
I've got to keep educating you guys. You certainly don't have to read it - or respond. In fact it's probably better if you don't respond. It's mostly just negative dribble.
14Red
Well-known member
no no no..you guys on here think that if the Reds spend $250 million a year on payroll it will guarantee championships....
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
Literally no one has said that. Please provide a quote, or stop lying. You just make s__t up.
I can show you many dozens of quotes on just the last few pages where different people have commented on how the Reds can win with a payroll that is even lower than it was on 2023, now that Moose and Votto are off the books.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
You dribble a basketball. Useless posts are "drivel". For example, most of yours are drivel. Educate yourself.
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Given your generally antiquated views on baseball, this would probably be the equivalent of attending a hopelessly underfunded school where all the textbooks were published when the USSR still existed.
14Red
Well-known member
You'all will come around to my way of thinking eventually. Just a matter of time.
Only if I hit my head and lose 100 points in IQ.
14Red
Well-known member
That's the spirit! Whatever it takes!
Let’s assume the Reds sign some FA's...
How they structure the deals will be important. For example, Jorge Soler will likely get 5yrs and $80M. The Reds have plenty of cash to pay say $30M in the first year leaving 4yrs and $50M left. That makes him a very attractive trade target in his final 4 years if he stays productive and the Reds falter.
Same with Chapman and Gray.
Essentially the Reds can work the deals in such a way that they can "buy" better trade returns by front loading the deals next year if things go south and they need to trade guys off.
How they structure the deals will be important. For example, Jorge Soler will likely get 5yrs and $80M. The Reds have plenty of cash to pay say $30M in the first year leaving 4yrs and $50M left. That makes him a very attractive trade target in his final 4 years if he stays productive and the Reds falter.
Same with Chapman and Gray.
Essentially the Reds can work the deals in such a way that they can "buy" better trade returns by front loading the deals next year if things go south and they need to trade guys off.
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The Reds re-signed Luke Maile to a $3.5M deal for 2024, with a club option for 2025.
14Red
Well-known member
You beat me to it. That's a GREAT decision for the Reds.
14Red
Well-known member
So why would this give the Reds and advantage over other teams who are looking at these guys?
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It has nothing to do with that. But it doesn’t hurt if a player wants a bunch of money upfront.
Lmao
Nobody wants to wait years to get paid.
In my scenario with Soler the extra $15M in the first year is worth several million in interest over the life of the contract.
Seriously, do you not understand compound interest?
14Red
Well-known member
So the Reds offer Soler that money over 5 years, the Yankees offer him the same over 3 years. Look I hope they can maybe land a guy like that, but I don't see how the Reds have any kind of an advantage over the big payors. The issue is the Reds can't afford to miss, the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies can.
So your issue is with the amount of the money and the years and not the structure.
You completely missed the point of the post then.
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The bigger miss would be not trying to sign the players you want because you’re worried about overspending or scared that the player might not pan out.
Right.
If the Yankee or another team outbid the Reds then so be it but attempts should be made. In those attempts the contracts should be heavily front loaded.