The Official 2024 Reds season thread

Ok, some thoughts on Joey Votto and his future with the Reds.
Last week, Votto was a guest on the Dan Patrick radio program and hinted that he would like to play one more season (at least). He's not been healthy the past two seasons and this season left a bad taste in his mouth. We all know the situation, the Reds have an option for 2024 that if they exercise, Votto makes $20 mill for the season. If the Reds decline, there is a $7 million dollar buyout.
You guys know me, I'm a big Votto fan, I certainly hope he's a Red for his career, no matter how long that is.

So there are ALOT of questions that need to be answered or at least considered before decisions are made....
  • Votto's roll would be significantly different in '24. The Reds have no shortage of first basemen and DH's. CES is likely your everyday first baseman of the near future and hopefully futher. Here is a guy who I feel with 400+ AB's in a season can hit 40+ homers, 100+ RBI. Something happens to him and we know Steer can play first.
  • At best, I see Votto being a platoon DH and occasional first baseman. Is he going to be ok with that role??
  • Secondly, what team out there would be interested in bringing Votto on board? I mean look around? This isn't the pre-2018 Votto who was an on base, productive machine. He's morphed into a below .220 hitter, less walks, more strikeouts. I really do not see a market for him currently.
One thing that's bothered me with Votto over the years is while we've seen a much more playful Votto the last few years, he's been very open and playful with the national media moreso than the local media. Remember the Canadian mountie bit, that was on MLB network. Needless to say there has been countless local interviews with him the last month and yet he goes on Patrick's national show and hints that he wants to keep playing?? He never made any mention of that with any local media.

I would love to see the club figure out a way to rework his deal, maybe add a few years on but make '24 his last playing season, then move into another capacity with the club. Joey has more money than he knows what to do with, so I really hope this doesn't become a money situation. But, if Joey really thinks he can be a regular or have a regular role with the club, then if the Reds move on, I support that. Needless to say I'm old enough to see stars move on to other teams late in their careers, and most of the time it's not a good thing. I don't cheer for former players when they go to other teams. I didn't cheer for Charles Barkley when he went to the Suns, I didn't cheer for Steve McNair when he went to Baltimore, Eddie George when he went to Dallas. I'd like to see Joey retire a Red, he has nothing to prove.
 
I hope they sign Votto but not at 20 mil, he’s not worth that. I could also see Bell having his man crush tactics and playing Votto at the expense of CES. CES, McClain, Marte and Elly should be your infield starters. Period
 
14Red said:
Ok, some thoughts on Joey Votto and his future with the Reds.
Last week, Votto was a guest on the Dan Patrick radio program and hinted that he would like to play one more season (at least). He's not been healthy the past two seasons and this season left a bad taste in his mouth. We all know the situation, the Reds have an option for 2024 that if they exercise, Votto makes $20 mill for the season. If the Reds decline, there is a $7 million dollar buyout.
You guys know me, I'm a big Votto fan, I certainly hope he's a Red for his career, no matter how long that is.

So there are ALOT of questions that need to be answered or at least considered before decisions are made....
  • Votto's roll would be significantly different in '24. The Reds have no shortage of first basemen and DH's. CES is likely your everyday first baseman of the near future and hopefully futher. Here is a guy who I feel with 400+ AB's in a season can hit 40+ homers, 100+ RBI. Something happens to him and we know Steer can play first.
Click to expand...

Stop right there.

You think CES is a 40 HR and 100 RBI guy in 400 AB's?

If that's true then why is he only getting 400 AB's in a season?
 
RazorRamon said:
I hope they sign Votto but not at 20 mil, he’s not worth that. I could also see Bell having his man crush tactics and playing Votto at the expense of CES. CES, McClain, Marte and Elly should be your infield starters. Period
Click to expand...
Would you sign him at $3M (that's $10M with the buyout)?
 
wolves82 said:
Sounds like we are all the same page with respect to Votto.
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I would like to see Votto with the Reds next year but not in a platoon with CES. DH versus RHP and occasionally at 1B. Now if he is fully healthy and producing you can DH him full time as he hits lefties well too, when he is healthy. That creates a problem with India, if Votto takes the full time DH role. Just don’t see a spot for India as he is so limited defensively. I’m sure at first he will get at bats against LHP but McClain will be the 2B. Will be interesting to see if India works out in the spring on any outfield position
 
Three lessons being reinforced by the playoffs so far:

1. If you don’t have at least a pair of studs at the top of your rotation, you’re in deep trouble. And it helps for your #3 and #4 guys to be above average too. The teams advancing all have this:

D-Backs: Gallen, Kelly
Astros: Verlander, Valdez (and Javier, Urquidy)
Rangers: Eovaldi, Montgomery (and Scherzer)
Phillies: Wheeler, Nola

And of course the Braves have Fried, Strider, Elder and Morton.

2. Overmanaging the pitching staff tends not to work. We saw it in Game 2 of Blue Jays-Twins when John Schneider lifted Jose Berrios after a walk in the 4th inning. Berrios had given up no runs, had thrown 47 pitches and was cruising. The reasoning was Schneider had pre-determined he wanted to get Yusei Kikuchi into the game. Kikuchi promptly gave up the only two runs of the game. When you have a quick trigger finger with your pitchers, it creates confusion for your players and can cause panic and pressing. It also relies on everyone you bring in being on their game that day, which tends to be a losing proposition. (The Blue Jays are paying Berrios $131 million to pitch in big games, by the way.)

3. Teams who were aggressive in spending money in free agency and acquiring players at the trade deadline are doing well.

Based on Opening Day payroll, the teams remaining were ranked:

Philly - 4
Braves - 8
Rangers - 9
Astros - 10
D-Backs - 21

Based on payroll accrued by year’s end, those remaining are ranked:

Rangers - 4
Philly - 5
Astros - 7
Braves - 10
D-Backs - 21

The Rangers and Astros were aggressive at the trade deadline, acquiring Max Scherzer, Jordan Montgomery and Justin Verlander. The D-Backs acquired Seattle’s closer, Paul Sewald, and Tommy Pham.

How the Reds should apply this:

1. Be aggressive in finding a good right-handed outfield bat.

2. Acquire a top-of-the-line or #2 starting pitcher. A few free-agent names that should be looked at closely: Eduardo Rodriguez, Aaron Nola, Blake Snell, Jordan Montgomery, Sonny Gray. Trades for pitchers under contract should also be considered.

3. Acquire two or three proven bullpen arms, especially one with closer experience. You can’t depend on continued overperformance from the band of vagabonds who occupied the bullpen in 2023. Also, Alexis Diaz fell off drastically in the second half. Just assuming you have a rock-solid closer heading into 2024 would be foolish.
 
AEW Champion said:
Three lessons being reinforced by the playoffs so far:

1. If you don’t have at least a pair of studs at the top of your rotation, you’re in deep trouble. And it helps for your #3 and #4 guys to be above average too. The teams advancing all have this:

D-Backs: Gallen, Kelly
Astros: Verlander, Valdez (and Javier, Urquidy)
Rangers: Eovaldi, Montgomery (and Scherzer)
Phillies: Wheeler, Nola

And of course the Braves have Fried, Strider, Elder and Morton.

2. Overmanaging the pitching staff tends not to work. We saw it in Game 2 of Blue Jays-Twins when John Schneider lifted Jose Berrios after a walk in the 4th inning. Berrios had given up no runs, had thrown 47 pitches and was cruising. The reasoning was Schneider had pre-determined he wanted to get Yusei Kikuchi into the game. Kikuchi promptly gave up the only two runs of the game. When you have a quick trigger finger with your pitchers, it creates confusion for your players and can cause panic and pressing. It also relies on everyone you bring in being on their game that day, which tends to be a losing proposition. (The Blue Jays are paying Berrios $131 million to pitch in big games, by the way.)

3. Teams who were aggressive in spending money in free agency and acquiring players at the trade deadline are doing well.

Based on Opening Day payroll, the teams remaining were ranked:

Philly - 4
Braves - 8
Rangers - 9
Astros - 10
D-Backs - 21

Based on payroll accrued by year’s end, those remaining are ranked:

Rangers - 4
Philly - 5
Astros - 7
Braves - 10
D-Backs - 21

The Rangers and Astros were aggressive at the trade deadline, acquiring Max Scherzer, Jordan Montgomery and Justin Verlander. The D-Backs acquired Seattle’s closer, Paul Sewald, and Tommy Pham.

How the Reds should apply this:

1. Be aggressive in finding a good right-handed outfield bat.

2. Acquire a top-of-the-line or #2 starting pitcher. A few free-agent names that should be looked at closely: Eduardo Rodriguez, Aaron Nola, Blake Snell, Jordan Montgomery, Sonny Gray. Trades for pitchers under contract should also be considered.

3. Acquire two or three proven bullpen arms, especially one with closer experience. You can’t depend on continued overperformance from the band of vagabonds who occupied the bullpen in 2023. Also, Alexis Diaz fell off drastically in the second half. Just assuming you have a rock-solid closer heading into 2024 would be foolish.
Click to expand...
Two trains of thought here:
We have an abundance of young, cheap talent that is locked up for years and have proven they can compete
Or
We are going to go all in and spend on high end free agents
20 guesses on which way Reds management will go 😂
 
RazorRamon said:
Two trains of thought here:
We have an abundance of young, cheap talent that is locked up for years and have proven they can compete
Or
We are going to go all in and spend on high end free agents
20 guesses on which way Reds management will go 😂
Click to expand...
Why would anyone need 20 guesses when there are only 2 choices?
 
AEW Champion said:
1. Be aggressive in finding a good right-handed outfield bat.

2. Acquire a top-of-the-line or #2 starting pitcher. A few free-agent names that should be looked at closely: Eduardo Rodriguez, Aaron Nola, Blake Snell, Jordan Montgomery, Sonny Gray. Trades for pitchers under contract should also be considered.

3. Acquire two or three proven bullpen arms, especially one with closer experience. You can’t depend on continued overperformance from the band of vagabonds who occupied the bullpen in 2023. Also, Alexis Diaz fell off drastically in the second half. Just assuming you have a rock-solid closer heading into 2024 would be foolish.
Click to expand...
While these are good thoughts, you have to take into consideration that many other teams will be looking for the exact same things. So they price goes up, and when the price goes up, you're competing with the Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Dodgers, etc. You say acquire a #2 starting pitcher. What are you willing to overpay for a #2 starter?? The teams mentioned above are proven to all way overspend, the Yankees and Mets continue to prove annually that you just don't throw money at the team and make it win.

#3 Ditto. There are probably 25 or more MLB teams looking to add to the bullpen. How are you ever going to decern who to get and what to pay? Most other teams are going with a hodgepodge of bullpen arms much like the Reds. This is the new baseball. And of course what comes with that is the over management of the bullpen because managers and GMs have to justify their moves.
 
AEW Champion said:
Three lessons being reinforced by the playoffs so far:

1. If you don’t have at least a pair of studs at the top of your rotation, you’re in deep trouble. And it helps for your #3 and #4 guys to be above average too. The teams advancing all have this:

D-Backs: Gallen, Kelly
Astros: Verlander, Valdez (and Javier, Urquidy)
Rangers: Eovaldi, Montgomery (and Scherzer)
Phillies: Wheeler, Nola

And of course the Braves have Fried, Strider, Elder and Morton.

2. Overmanaging the pitching staff tends not to work. We saw it in Game 2 of Blue Jays-Twins when John Schneider lifted Jose Berrios after a walk in the 4th inning. Berrios had given up no runs, had thrown 47 pitches and was cruising. The reasoning was Schneider had pre-determined he wanted to get Yusei Kikuchi into the game. Kikuchi promptly gave up the only two runs of the game. When you have a quick trigger finger with your pitchers, it creates confusion for your players and can cause panic and pressing. It also relies on everyone you bring in being on their game that day, which tends to be a losing proposition. (The Blue Jays are paying Berrios $131 million to pitch in big games, by the way.)

3. Teams who were aggressive in spending money in free agency and acquiring players at the trade deadline are doing well.

Based on Opening Day payroll, the teams remaining were ranked:

Philly - 4
Braves - 8
Rangers - 9
Astros - 10
D-Backs - 21

Based on payroll accrued by year’s end, those remaining are ranked:

Rangers - 4
Philly - 5
Astros - 7
Braves - 10
D-Backs - 21

The Rangers and Astros were aggressive at the trade deadline, acquiring Max Scherzer, Jordan Montgomery and Justin Verlander. The D-Backs acquired Seattle’s closer, Paul Sewald, and Tommy Pham.

How the Reds should apply this:

1. Be aggressive in finding a good right-handed outfield bat.

2. Acquire a top-of-the-line or #2 starting pitcher. A few free-agent names that should be looked at closely: Eduardo Rodriguez, Aaron Nola, Blake Snell, Jordan Montgomery, Sonny Gray. Trades for pitchers under contract should also be considered.

3. Acquire two or three proven bullpen arms, especially one with closer experience. You can’t depend on continued overperformance from the band of vagabonds who occupied the bullpen in 2023. Also, Alexis Diaz fell off drastically in the second half. Just assuming you have a rock-solid closer heading into 2024 would be foolish.
Click to expand...
Good observations.

I cannot imagine the Reds will chase a super expensive FA like Snell or Nola. But I agree that a more moderately priced guy would be great.

The big RH bat I keep seeing mentioned is Soler. He hit .251 with 36 HR with his home games in Miami; he'd be nice in GABP.
 
14Red said:
While these are good thoughts, you have to take into consideration that many other teams will be looking for the exact same things. So they price goes up, and when the price goes up, you're competing with the Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Dodgers, etc. You say acquire a #2 starting pitcher. What are you willing to overpay for a #2 starter?? The teams mentioned above are proven to all way overspend, the Yankees and Mets continue to prove annually that you just don't throw money at the team and make it win.

#3 Ditto. There are probably 25 or more MLB teams looking to add to the bullpen. How are you ever going to decern who to get and what to pay? Most other teams are going with a hodgepodge of bullpen arms much like the Reds. This is the new baseball. And of course what comes with that is the over management of the bullpen because managers and GMs have to justify their moves.
Click to expand...
Captain obvious strikes again. We had no idea other teams were trying to improve pitching also - thanks!

Are you suggesting that the Reds do nothing since there will be competition in the market?

The Reds will have a lower overall budget than a lot of teams, but you figure out what that budget is, and do your best to get the guys that you think will fit in that budget and help the team.
 
wolves82 said:
Captain obvious strikes again. We had no idea other teams were trying to improve pitching also - thanks!

Are you suggesting that the Reds do nothing since there will be competition in the market?

The Reds will have a lower overall budget than a lot of teams, but you figure out what that budget is, and do your best to get the guys that you think will fit in that budget and help the team.
Click to expand...
I'm not making any suggestions like that at all. I just want you guys to be VERY CLEAR....last year, we clammored for more offense. We need an outfield bat. Wil Myers was signed. He stunk!!!
So IF the Reds do add a starter or two, and a couple of bullpen arms - likely way overpay for them - you CANNOT complain about it!! One of my main themes on here the whole time I've been on here is that most fans armchair quarterback, meaning they gripe about the team AFTER something happens. About a dozen NFL teams passed on Patrick Mahomes in the NFL draft years ago. In hindsight should they have drafted him?? Yes, of course. But you can't live your sports life in what SHOULD had been done. You only live in the moment.
My guess is Nick Krall and his staff will pinpoint some potential free agents, and they will have a dollar amount they can offer and that's it. Just don't get your hopes up the Reds will be able to bring in who they want to. If they are looking at a particular free agent, chances are other teams are as well.
 
Justin Dunn, Brett Kennedy and Alan Busenitz have elected free agency in lieu of accepting a minor-league assignment after the were DFA’ed last week and went unclaimed on waivers.
 
RazorRamon said:
Two trains of thought here:
We have an abundance of young, cheap talent that is locked up for years and have proven they can compete
Or
We are going to go all in and spend on high end free agents
20 guesses on which way Reds management will go 😂
Click to expand...
We should be able to have some of both. With the extraordinarily low payroll commitments for the next three years, there’s no reason they shouldn’t be spending a HEALTHY amount of money this winter to fill any holes in the roster to build a championship-caliber roster.
 
14Red said:
While these are good thoughts, you have to take into consideration that many other teams will be looking for the exact same things. So they price goes up, and when the price goes up, you're competing with the Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Dodgers, etc. You say acquire a #2 starting pitcher. What are you willing to overpay for a #2 starter?? The teams mentioned above are proven to all way overspend, the Yankees and Mets continue to prove annually that you just don't throw money at the team and make it win.

#3 Ditto. There are probably 25 or more MLB teams looking to add to the bullpen. How are you ever going to decern who to get and what to pay? Most other teams are going with a hodgepodge of bullpen arms much like the Reds. This is the new baseball. And of course what comes with that is the over management of the bullpen because managers and GMs have to justify their moves.
Click to expand...
You keep saying overpay. You don't even know what it's going to cost so how could you possibly be concerned about overpaying? You seem almost petrified of spending anything for talent. Talent is going to cost them in one way or another, no such thing as a free lunch.

If the Reds simply say they are not going to pay for any player over x dollar amount or x number of prospects, then get used to losing. Timid ownership gets you absolutely nowhere except selling off all of the young guys they just worked to develop for another rebuild without sniffing a playoff win.
 
AEW Champion said:
We should be able to have some of both. With the extraordinarily low payroll commitments for the next three years, there’s no reason they shouldn’t be spending a HEALTHY amount of money this winter to fill any holes in the roster to build a championship-caliber roster.
Click to expand...
Believe it when I see it. I agree that should be what they do, I just don’t believe they will spend much
 
I’d love for the Reds to make a run at Adam Duvall. Had a decent year in Boston and can play multiple positions. Would be fairly cheap too.
 
I’m happy for Nick Castellanos getting to play the hero last night in knocking the Braves out of the playoffs. He’s the first player in MLB history to have back-to-back multi-homer games in the playoffs.

He brought some confidence, attitude and leadership to the Reds that was badly needed at that time and likely rubbed off on then-rookie Jonathan India. He also brought production at the plate. It’s a shame that he essentially was forced to leave Cincy because he saw the writing on the wall with the Reds’ post-Covid teardown, but I’m glad he landed with a winner while he’s still close to his prime.
 
Gh0st said:
You keep saying overpay. You don't even know what it's going to cost so how could you possibly be concerned about overpaying? You seem almost petrified of spending anything for talent. Talent is going to cost them in one way or another, no such thing as a free lunch.

If the Reds simply say they are not going to pay for any player over x dollar amount or x number of prospects, then get used to losing. Timid ownership gets you absolutely nowhere except selling off all of the young guys they just worked to develop for another rebuild without sniffing a playoff win.
Click to expand...
Or your the Mets and you over pay and land on your face. Many fans just say spend money. It's not that easy. We have countless examples where free agents STUNK! My contention is in baseball, the gap between the superstar and the regular player isn't that big. And especially with young guys. You can buy some time before you have to decide who you're going to pay. And it's real, not all of these guys now with the Reds will be with us 3-4 years from now. You keep drafting and developing so you don't overpay.
 
14Red said:
Or your the Mets and you over pay and land on your face. Many fans just say spend money. It's not that easy. We have countless examples where free agents STUNK! My contention is in baseball, the gap between the superstar and the regular player isn't that big. And especially with young guys. You can buy some time before you have to decide who you're going to pay. And it's real, not all of these guys now with the Reds will be with us 3-4 years from now. You keep drafting and developing so you don't overpay.
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Everyone knows spending money foolishly is just that foolish. The Reds need to do their homework and spend on a worthwhile investment.

You don't seem as bothered by the much higher unpredictability of drafting and developing. Teams go years without having multiple prospects hit pay dirt. Now that the Reds have multiple MLB ready prospects and a good young core of a team, the answer isn't to dump and re-draft. It's to sign veteran talent to shore up the holes.
 
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