The Official 2022 Cincinnati Reds Thread

AEW Champion

Well-known member
Diamond seats, what did those run you, if I may ask. Sticker on those is $250 per seat.
My buddy got them for free from a connection who wasn’t using them … they would have been two more empty seats otherwise. Basically my only cost was making sure the bartenders and food runner lady in that section were tipped well.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

14Red

Well-known member
$10-20 parking, $15 in concessions, and $11 per beer. And GTHOH with the bandwagon fan nonsense. This team hasn't won so much as a playoff series in my lifetime and they are nowhere close to winning one now, nor do the Reds show any real desire to be competitive for more than a 1-2 year window. They do not deserve our support. I never thought the Reds would be a more poorly run franchise than the Bengals, but here we are.
I've parked in $5 lots and walked, I don't buy one concession there and I don't drink. Yes, I know I'm weird. Deserve? Do you know the economic impact a pro sports team, especially baseball, has for a city?
You or I don't have any ability to run a pro sports team, although many fans feel like they could. Truth be known you really don't have to be very good at it. The Reds are going to make money no matter what. If fans don't go, it really mainly affects the day to day staff. The ushers, concessions folks who rely on that income and all the businesses in and around the stadium that benefit from crowds.
Sure fans can plant their flag in the sand and refuse to go, but the Reds will be fine. And they know that when they win, we'll all be back down there again because that's what humans do. Everybody loves a winner. What else are you going to do, right?
 

14Red

Well-known member
Surprisingly the Club level down the first base line was nearly full, so there must have been a big group outing up there or something. There were some fans on the first base side. I’d guess maybe 8,000 there based on the Club level being full. I think they announced 12,000 or so paid.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
People forget that most of the seats in the lower level are paid for, all 80 games (Reds/ Cubs in Iowa was a Reds home game). So yes, there may look like there are 2-3 thousand there, but at that point who cares? The new thing some of these teams do is have a "resale" ticket exchange where they actually sell the same seat twice because a company may have seats they don't want to give up but no one wants to go.

I'm amazed at fans who worry so much about the financial part of teams. I just like baseball and the Reds and well always follow them, win or lose. This season has stunk, but we have 3 potential top of the rotation pitchers moving forward, we have replenished the minor leagues with good talent and the future looks good, IMO.
 

14Red

Well-known member
The financial side of things effects the on field product
It does, but it's not everything. 7 of the top 15 teams payroll wise this season will not make the playoffs. 2 of the bottom 7 in payroll will make the playoffs this season. It can be done.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
I've parked in $5 lots and walked, I don't buy one concession there and I don't drink. Yes, I know I'm weird. Deserve? Do you know the economic impact a pro sports team, especially baseball, has for a city?
You or I don't have any ability to run a pro sports team, although many fans feel like they could. Truth be known you really don't have to be very good at it. The Reds are going to make money no matter what. If fans don't go, it really mainly affects the day to day staff. The ushers, concessions folks who rely on that income and all the businesses in and around the stadium that benefit from crowds.
Sure fans can plant their flag in the sand and refuse to go, but the Reds will be fine. And they know that when they win, we'll all be back down there again because that's what humans do. Everybody loves a winner. What else are you going to do, right?
You are right that MLB owners make money even with little to no attendance, thanks to the TV and radio money. However, great attendance dramatically increases the teams' profit. You keep saying that attendance doesn't matter to owners, but it does. Simple math: 20,000 extra fans paying on average $35 per ticket for 81 games: 20,000 X $35 X 81 = $56.7 million dollars. Plus parking, concessions, souveneirs, etc.

I'm sure my numbers are low, lots of tickets are way more than $35. A lot more revenue is on the table. Not to mention higher TV ratings on Bally for a winner, which gives you a bump in TV revenue on the next contract, etc.

Also, to your "the fans will come back" comment... The Dolans went cheap in Cleveland a long time before the Castellinis did. Now they are in first place, going to win the division, and the fans are still staying away in droves. They had 6,000 for a Twins game last week, with first place ramifications. This is the same city that had sellouts for many years in a row in the 1990's. If you crap on the fans long enough, they won't be back.

I shared the Castellinis horrible winning percentages since 2015 on the prior page. Their clock is ticking. Stop being cheap a-holes, or sell the team.
 

14Red

Well-known member
You are right that MLB owners make money even with little to no attendance, thanks to the TV and radio money. However, great attendance dramatically increases the teams' profit. You keep saying that attendance doesn't matter to owners, but it does. Simple math: 20,000 extra fans paying on average $35 per ticket for 81 games: 20,000 X $35 X 81 = $56.7 million dollars. Plus parking, concessions, souveneirs, etc.

I'm sure my numbers are low, lots of tickets are way more than $35. A lot more revenue is on the table. Not to mention higher TV ratings on Bally for a winner, which gives you a bump in TV revenue on the next contract, etc.

Also, to your "the fans will come back" comment... The Dolans went cheap in Cleveland a long time before the Castellinis did. Now they are in first place, going to win the division, and the fans are still staying away in droves. They had 6,000 for a Twins game last week, with first place ramifications. This is the same city that had sellouts for many years in a row in the 1990's. If you crap on the fans long enough, they won't be back.

I shared the Castellinis horrible winning percentages since 2015 on the prior page. Their clock is ticking. Stop being cheap a-holes, or sell the team.
I think the Guardians/ Indians fans are partly to do with the name change and the fact that I feel fans know deep down although the Guardians have played way above their heads this year, it's a team in first place only because of the division they are in. I wonder if MLB is setting up the scenario that since we're going to a balanced schedule next year, the top "x" number of teams will make the playoffs, and not necessarily what division you're in?
Believe me, if somehow the Guardians make it to the world series, there will be no shortage of fans up there.

I do agree that you can't crap on your fans continuously, but there are still alot of fringe fans out here who love to win. Ohio State wouldn't sell out the Shoe if they were a 7-4 team every year. Most of us know they are going to sprint through the weak big ten every year and be right there for a playoff spot. Once there are 12 teams in the playoffs, unless there are major changes in the scheduling, the Buckeye will be in the playoffs annually.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
I think the Guardians/ Indians fans are partly to do with the name change and the fact that I feel fans know deep down although the Guardians have played way above their heads this year, it's a team in first place only because of the division they are in. I wonder if MLB is setting up the scenario that since we're going to a balanced schedule next year, the top "x" number of teams will make the playoffs, and not necessarily what division you're in?
Believe me, if somehow the Guardians make it to the world series, there will be no shortage of fans up there.

I do agree that you can't crap on your fans continuously, but there are still alot of fringe fans out here who love to win. Ohio State wouldn't sell out the Shoe if they were a 7-4 team every year. Most of us know they are going to sprint through the weak big ten every year and be right there for a playoff spot. Once there are 12 teams in the playoffs, unless there are major changes in the scheduling, the Buckeye will be in the playoffs annually.
It is not just "fringe fans" who love to win. Every fan wants their team to win. It is the entire reason for playing sports contests. Only money-grubbing owners like the Dolan and Castellini families put winning second.

PS. I went to college in Cleveland and know a bunch of people there; there is a very strong anti-Dolan feeling and that is why the attendance is what it is. A similar thing is just starting to happen in Cincy, it seems. Lots of people saying "I'm not giving them a dime."
 

14Red

Well-known member
It is not just "fringe fans" who love to win. Every fan wants their team to win. It is the entire reason for playing sports contests. Only money-grubbing owners like the Dolan and Castellini families put winning second.

PS. I went to college in Cleveland and know a bunch of people there; there is a very strong anti-Dolan feeling and that is why the attendance is what it is. A similar thing is just starting to happen in Cincy, it seems. Lots of people saying "I'm not giving them a dime."
I simply cannot imagine my like or dislike with whomever owns the team dictating my fandom? That seems absolutely insane to me. But to each their own.
As we know fan- is short for "fanatic". Definition: a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause (or in this case a sports cause. Key phrase - excessive/ single minded zeal. I'll see fans pay hundreds of dollars for seats, or thousands for season tickets and that's fine, it's a free market system and every person is able to spend their "discretionary" income however they like.
My point is this, I've been around awhile. I've never seen two teams win the super bowl in one year. I've never seen 3-4 teams win an NBA championship or a world series in one single season. Sadly, we've boiled sports down to black and white, you win a title, or your awful. Life isn't like that. There are varying degrees of success in anything we do. The Reds started the 2022 season with the thought that they were fitting talent with their resources. Now we can talk all day about how much money these teams have to spend, yet spending money doesn't always mean winning. So the Reds decided early on they likely were not going to contend. And obviously starting 3-22 and all the injuries pretty much sunk this season from the jump. So from that standpoint, the season wasn't terrible. What was accomplished?
  • You have determined that Greene, Lodolo and Ashcraft will and can be top of the rotation guys.
  • Alexis Diaz can be a back of the bullpen guy - Reiver Sanmartin could be a good bullpen piece.
  • Although injured alot, India looks to be a keeper, Stephenson as well. Nick Senzel hasn't proven he can be what a #1 draft pick should be, so it may be time to look elsewhere. I think Fraley and Fridel are guys you can keep around. I think shortstop is open for '23. Jose Barreo just isn't a major league shortstop.
There needs to be a definite push to upgrade the bullpen. Along with Diaz and Sanmartin, TJ Antone will return, but we need a much, much better bullpen. You can actually have lesser starters if you have a good bullpen.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Hey, at least now we have Green and Lodolo going to the bump every 5 days, that's progress. Hopefully Ashcraft can join them. I really don't get the rehab starts? I mean why not let them start with the big league club? We're clearly not trying to win, these are basically scrimmages the rest of the way.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Hunter Green is fascinating to me. There has never been a guy who can throw the ball as fast as he does, and as many times. He had what, like 47 pitches 100 MPH or more the other day? Now this is coming off a rehab assignment where he's been fully rested. Remember when the season started he did this, then his velo dropped some and he wasn't throwing over 100 in several starts.
 

AEW Champion

Well-known member
With yet another Nick Senzel injury last night — broken toe from running into the wall, thus ending his season — I think it’s time to pull the plug on him and let him try to get a fresh start somewhere else. He’s not a great center fielder defensively. He has little power (20 HR in 4 seasons … only 5 this year despite being relatively healthy for him). He doesn’t hit triples despite having speed (4 career, none since 2019). His OPS numbers are atrocious. He has been worth -1.6 WAR for his career, including -1.1 this season. He is already 27 years old. It’s time.

I am of the mind that Fraley is the only Opening Day 2023 outfielder currently on the big-league team. Prospects should get the other two spots. Friedl could be a decent fourth outfielder since he can competently play all 3 spots.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

14Red

Well-known member
With yet another Nick Senzel injury last night — broken toe from running into the wall, thus ending his season — I think it’s time to pull the plug on him and let him try to get a fresh start somewhere else. He’s not a great center fielder defensively. He has little power (20 HR in 4 seasons … only 5 this year despite being relatively healthy for him). He doesn’t hit triples despite having speed (4 career, none since 2019). His OPS numbers are atrocious. He has been worth -1.6 WAR for his career, including -1.1 this season. He is already 27 years old. It’s time.

I am of the mind that Fraley is the only Opening Day 2023 outfielder currently on the big-league team. Prospects should get the other two spots. Friedl could be a decent fourth outfielder since he can competently play all 3 spots.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Funny you mention this. And if we were stocked with major league talent I'd say fine. But here's the deal, at this point, making a significant run next season is likely not happening. Senzel, while he's underperformed and has been hurt often, is cheap. He's probably going to be in the $2-$3 mill range next year - the average major leaguer is in the $4-$5 mill range. So I don't think it would hurt to bring him back next season. Now at this point with our current outfield group, I'd put Fraley and Friedl ahead of him and possibly even Stuart Fairchild. I think Senzel's ability to play multiple positions is also valuable. We just have to hope and pray that somehow he can revert back to that first round pick. I'd like to see us go get a veteran outfielder with some pop. We NEED a 25-30 home run guy next season. We play in a home run hitters ball park and the club leader is Brandon Drury with 20, and he's been gone for 6 weeks.
I think this team can only be competitive if we shore up the bullpen. Offense comes and goes, we've got some good, young starters. The bullpen has to be markedly better for us to be decent at all.
 

AEW Champion

Well-known member
Funny you mention this. And if we were stocked with major league talent I'd say fine. But here's the deal, at this point, making a significant run next season is likely not happening. Senzel, while he's underperformed and has been hurt often, is cheap. He's probably going to be in the $2-$3 mill range next year - the average major leaguer is in the $4-$5 mill range. So I don't think it would hurt to bring him back next season. Now at this point with our current outfield group, I'd put Fraley and Friedl ahead of him and possibly even Stuart Fairchild. I think Senzel's ability to play multiple positions is also valuable. We just have to hope and pray that somehow he can revert back to that first round pick. I'd like to see us go get a veteran outfielder with some pop. We NEED a 25-30 home run guy next season. We play in a home run hitters ball park and the club leader is Brandon Drury with 20, and he's been gone for 6 weeks.
I think this team can only be competitive if we shore up the bullpen. Offense comes and goes, we've got some good, young starters. The bullpen has to be markedly better for us to be decent at all.
It seems clear that Senzel is never going to get it turned around in Cincinnati. Does he even want to be here? I think it’s a legitimate question after the rumors of him going AWOL last year while recuperating from one of his many injuries.

He’s had four years at the big-league level to have the light come on. It hasn’t. It’s time. Maybe a change of scenery will do him some good.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

wolves82

Well-known member
With yet another Nick Senzel injury last night — broken toe from running into the wall, thus ending his season — I think it’s time to pull the plug on him and let him try to get a fresh start somewhere else. He’s not a great center fielder defensively. He has little power (20 HR in 4 seasons … only 5 this year despite being relatively healthy for him). He doesn’t hit triples despite having speed (4 career, none since 2019). His OPS numbers are atrocious. He has been worth -1.6 WAR for his career, including -1.1 this season. He is already 27 years old. It’s time.

I am of the mind that Fraley is the only Opening Day 2023 outfielder currently on the big-league team. Prospects should get the other two spots. Friedl could be a decent fourth outfielder since he can competently play all 3 spots.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Funny you mention this. And if we were stocked with major league talent I'd say fine. But here's the deal, at this point, making a significant run next season is likely not happening. Senzel, while he's underperformed and has been hurt often, is cheap. He's probably going to be in the $2-$3 mill range next year - the average major leaguer is in the $4-$5 mill range. So I don't think it would hurt to bring him back next season. Now at this point with our current outfield group, I'd put Fraley and Friedl ahead of him and possibly even Stuart Fairchild. I think Senzel's ability to play multiple positions is also valuable. We just have to hope and pray that somehow he can revert back to that first round pick. I'd like to see us go get a veteran outfielder with some pop. We NEED a 25-30 home run guy next season. We play in a home run hitters ball park and the club leader is Brandon Drury with 20, and he's been gone for 6 weeks.
I think this team can only be competitive if we shore up the bullpen. Offense comes and goes, we've got some good, young starters. The bullpen has to be markedly better for us to be decent at all.

Senzel is 27, so he's done? Fraley and Friedl are also 27. Fairchild is 26. None of them are a long term answer in my opinion. Sure, Fraley has shown a little pop this year, but some other guys have done that when they first come up (Aquino). I'm guessing the league figures him out quickly. He's just getting a shot at 27 for a reason. He isn't great.

As I've posted before, put Stephenson in a corner OF spot this off-season. If he can catch most of the fly balls, he provides one of the OF bats we need. I'm sure that among the 15 SS prospects we have, a couple will be transitioned to the OF (maybe Barrero and De La Cruz?). I've seen posts saying they want to give up on Barerro, that is just ignorant. He is 24 and has all of 250 MLB at bats. His athleticism and potential deserves a longer look.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Hunter Green is fascinating to me. There has never been a guy who can throw the ball as fast as he does, and as many times. He had what, like 47 pitches 100 MPH or more the other day? Now this is coming off a rehab assignment where he's been fully rested. Remember when the season started he did this, then his velo dropped some and he wasn't throwing over 100 in several starts.
When his velo started dropping after the first month I said he was probably dinged up. Turns out he was. No mystery here. When fully healthy, he is the guy you saw in St Louis.
 

14Red

Well-known member
It seems clear that Senzel is never going to get it turned around in Cincinnati. Does he even want to be here? I think it’s a legitimate question after the rumors of him going AWOL last year while recuperating from one of his many injuries.

He’s had four years at the big-league level to have the light come on. It hasn’t. It’s time. Maybe a change of scenery will do him some good.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
I believe that too. I just think that since he can play multiple positions and he's cheap, he's worth keeping around as a utility guy. Let's face it, few MLB teams have a starting 8 anymore. Most teams have about 5-6, then rotate a bunch of utility guys in. Maybe a change of scenery would do him good, but we've really not seen any long sustained success from him. I don't think he's going to change much.
 

14Red

Well-known member
When his velo started dropping after the first month I said he was probably dinged up. Turns out he was. No mystery here. When fully healthy, he is the guy you saw in St Louis.
But my point is he's not going to be able to sustain that velo start after start. He was shut down for a time, then ramped back up. My guess under "normal" circumstances, he's going to be a 95-98 MPH pitcher.
 

Zezzo!

Well-known member
Funny you mention that. I was thinking about him last night. I don't know that I can name a Red in my 50+ years of existence that is more puzzling that Aquino. His ceiling is so high, yet his ceiling is very low, and to be honest he's played much closer to his floor than his ceiling. I looked him up this morning...

In 5 seasons, he's had 676 major league plate appearances
.214 batting average
38 home runs/ 103 RBI
on base % of .287
230 strikeouts - he's struck out over a third of his plate appearances.

He's this generations Dave Kingman. Last night, he hit two sliders for home runs. So is the narrative that he hit poor pitchers sliders, or has there been some improvement?
Yeah but in his defense that's a small sample size he hasn't played even 100 games in a season yet and has been platooned every year except for this past month.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Yeah but in his defense that's a small sample size he hasn't played even 100 games in a season yet and has been platooned every year except for this past month.
I really don't know how you could ever give him 500 at bats in a season. I'm afraid you'd have the same Aquino. he's just not a guy who's going to hit a high average, and he'll occasionally run into one.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Lost in all the discussion about 2023, we forgot to mention that the 2022 Reds have set an all-time MLB record!!!

Most hit batters in a season = 100 !!! The old record was 98. Fantastic job by the Reds.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Lost in all the discussion about 2023, we forgot to mention that the 2022 Reds have set an all-time MLB record!!!

Most hit batters in a season = 100 !!! The old record was 98. Fantastic job by the Reds.
And the Mets set an offensive record for batters being hit in a season, I think at 106.
 

oldpolecat

Active member
But my point is he's not going to be able to sustain that velo start after start. He was shut down for a time, then ramped back up. My guess under "normal" circumstances, he's going to be a 95-98 MPH pitcher.
Which may not be a bad thing. How many pitchers have burned themselves out after a few seasons? Pitching now.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Which may not be a bad thing. How many pitchers have burned themselves out after a few seasons? Pitching now.
Greene is a pretty big guy with a smooth delivery, I think he can sustain a pretty good fastball, but yes, he'll need to continue to develop pitches and not rely on the heater as much.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
well, 12 games to go. Can the Reds go at least 4-8 and avoid 100 losses? I sure hope so. 3 vs. Brewers, 3 vs Pirates, 6 vs. Cubs.

Pirates need to go 8-4 to avoid 100 losses, that ain't happening...
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Well, Luis Castillo got his contract extension - with Seattle. A little over $100M for 5 years with a couple of creative clauses in it, giving Seattle some injury protection at the end of the contract.

So now Seattle has one of the best pitchers in baseball locked up, through age 34, for just a little over $20M AAV. It is absolutely disgraceful that the Reds could not get a similar extension offered to Luis while he was still here. Disgraceful. Seattle is not a big market team, they are just a smarter ownership and management group that wants to win.

#SellTheTeamBob Fricking please.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Meanwhile, this lousy bunch of Reds has lost 14 of 16. Going 4-6 the last 10 games to avoid 100 losses now seems unlikely.

#SellTheTeamBob
 

GCPRO

Well-known member
Meanwhile, this lousy bunch of Reds has lost 14 of 16. Going 4-6 the last 10 games to avoid 100 losses now seems unlikely.

#SellTheTeamBob
Team is bad but has also completely quit on its coaching staff and fans. I would say it could not get much worse but I see nothing to suggest otherwise. I’ve lost interest and I’ve been a diehard fan for my 61 years. Sad.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Team is bad but has also completely quit on its coaching staff and fans. I would say it could not get much worse but I see nothing to suggest otherwise. I’ve lost interest and I’ve been a diehard fan for my 61 years. Sad.
No way have they "quit". 100% guarantee the players on the field are trying their best. Athletes that make it to the elite level are all very competitive by nature. Plus, they are trying to improve their future contract. They are giving their all, they just are not quite as good as most other MLB players.

Please cite even one example where you saw a clear lack of effort.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Well, Luis Castillo got his contract extension - with Seattle. A little over $100M for 5 years with a couple of creative clauses in it, giving Seattle some injury protection at the end of the contract.

So now Seattle has one of the best pitchers in baseball locked up, through age 34, for just a little over $20M AAV. It is absolutely disgraceful that the Reds could not get a similar extension offered to Luis while he was still here. Disgraceful. Seattle is not a big market team, they are just a smarter ownership and management group that wants to win.

#SellTheTeamBob Fricking please.
We'll see how it turns out with Luis. I wish him all the best. He's pitched his BEST baseball the last 3 months. If Seattle is paying for that, they got a great deal. However, if he is the Castillo from most of his time in Cincy...well, we'll see.
Don't be surprised if the Reds do the same with Greene, Lodolo and Ashcraft if they continue on their paths. Paying BIG money for pitchers is a crap shoot. Ideal scenario is for the Reds to be able to keep drafting and developing Greens', Lodolos' and Ashcrafts' into the future.
 
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