The Official 2022 Cincinnati Reds Thread

AEW Champion said:
I tend to think attendance often trails results by a year in baseball. Like, if a team has a really good year, fans will catch the drift and start showing up as the season goes on, but then they’re really excited the next season and show up in larger numbers.

I can’t help but wonder how much losing 100 games will further erode fan attendance next year. Is it possible it could drop below 1 million for the season? Probably not, but it might get close.

Opening Day, the Yankees series, and Cardinals/Cubs/Braves fans will help prop them up.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
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All things being equal, I look for the Reds attendance to drop off next season anyway, those Cubs/ Cardinal home series were a boon to the Reds ticket sales. Heck, yesterday, as bad as the Cubs are there STILL were alot of Cub fans there. Bringing in the Texas Rangers and Seattle Mariners isn't going to cover those losses.
Now, I feel today, more than ever, no one plans. The walk up crowds can be a big component. If the Reds don't get off to a 3-22 start (they can't, can they?) and are hovering around .500 when the weather breaks in late May/ June, I think you'll see well attended games.
 
14Red said:
Ok AEW, what would you like to see, the Castellini's and Nick Krall tarred and feathered at Fountain Square??? I mean what are we doing here? Shame and scorn??
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That’s a magnificent idea actually! Maybe do it to kick off RedsFest. If a team loses 100 games, its president and GM should suffer the consequences. We’ll spare Bobblehead Bob since he’s probably senile.

Can I submit this idea to the Reds marketing team to gauge their interest?

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …

P.S. The Fountain Square tar-and-feather event would outdraw a lot of Reds games.
 
5 on the Reds coaching staff will not return next season, including 1st base coach/ baserunning coach Delino DeSheilds and hitting coach Alan Zinter.
Apparently, David Bell will return.
 
I feel bad for the season-ticket sales staff. They’ve got their work cut out for them to retain ticket holders, and forget about new clientele at this point. I heard they’re raising season ticket prices too, although I don’t know that firsthand.

Think about the bath season-ticket holders took this season since they would have renewed before the fire sale. A decent chunk of those cheap tickets in the lower level on StubHub, Vivid Seats, etc. had to be season-ticket holders getting a financial haircut.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
I think the fact that the franchise is worth 1 billion supersedes any talk of bettering the onfield product. It’s a business. A successful one.
I’m tired of the everyone’s a professional trying to win a new contract bs. We should know better than this. It’s human nature. You’re making a bunch of money and your ballclub stinks. Why bother? For sure the younger ones give an effort to some extent but the 30 plus year olds are out there to get paid before the curtain closes. Ten games to the cubs and pirates.
 
Orin Swift said:
And just think how much more pocket money poor Mr. I Can’t Spend Money Becusse I’m Poor could have had if they weren’t terrible and lost 100 games.
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Just imagine how the Boston Red Sox ($223 million), Chicago White Sox ($208 million), LA Angels ($193 million), SF Giants ($168 million) Chicago Cubs ($166 million) and many others teams feel who spent way more than the Reds and still didn't make the playoffs.
 
AEW Champion said:
I feel bad for the season-ticket sales staff. They’ve got their work cut out for them to retain ticket holders, and forget about new clientele at this point. I heard they’re raising season ticket prices too, although I don’t know that firsthand.

Think about the bath season-ticket holders took this season since they would have renewed before the fire sale. A decent chunk of those cheap tickets in the lower level on StubHub, Vivid Seats, etc. had to be season-ticket holders getting a financial haircut.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Click to expand...
I don't ever recall being a sports fan, buying season tickets guaranteeing winning seasons or championships. I don't think anyone ever held a gun to the head of someone to buy season tickets. It's a choice for those with that kind of disposable income. The rebuild is progressing, and the franchise is going the right direction.
I for one like the option of the ticket brokers now, regular folk can go to games and actually have seats we could never afford in normal circumstances. I still never understand why - in a season like this year - the club themselves don't slash ticket prices. An empty seat brings $0 revenue. Imagine charging $20 a seat for the lower level for Mon-Thur home games in 2023?
I think you'll see the Reds get pretty creative with some of their marketing next season.
 
14Red said:
Just imagine how the Boston Red Sox ($223 million), Chicago White Sox ($208 million), LA Angels ($193 million), SF Giants ($168 million) Chicago Cubs ($166 million) and many others teams feel who spent way more than the Reds and still didn't make the playoffs.
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As a White Sox fan, I was PO’ed at La Russa, Hahn and the players as the season went on. But at least the season wasn’t over in April.

And every one of those teams could be in the mix next year depending on moves made this offseason. The Reds are a virtual lock to suck donkey nuts again next year.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
14Red said:
Just imagine how the Boston Red Sox ($223 million), Chicago White Sox ($208 million), LA Angels ($193 million), SF Giants ($168 million) Chicago Cubs ($166 million) and many others teams feel who spent way more than the Reds and still didn't make the playoffs.
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Now tell me how much those teams are worth. Then you’ll see how dumb your point is. Well, you probably won’t. Most people would.
 
AEW Champion said:
As a White Sox fan, I was PO’ed at La Russa, Hahn and the players as the season went on. But at least the season wasn’t over in April.

And every one of those teams could be in the mix next year depending on moves made this offseason. The Reds are a virtual lock to suck donkey nuts again next year.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Click to expand...
The White Sox had to be one of the most disappointing teams in all of baseball, they "went for it" this year and failed miserably AND - they were in arguably the worst division in baseball. They still had a shot in early September and just could not get out of their own way. As for my Reds, here's what I think.
  • They simply CANNOT have as many injuries as they had this season, it's not humanly possible.
  • The bullpen - even if markedly better will make a huge difference.
  • Where's the offense coming from? Who knows. I do think they will go out and try to get a few one year vets (like Pham/ Drury this season). There are way too many holes in our lineup and once we were dead in the water, we did little to help ourselves.
Look, I'm always going to be the overly optimistic guy. I don't simply believe that if you spend money, you win. Heck we've proven that over the years (Moustakas, Minor). The bar is going to be pretty low next season, so I do think we'll be competitive. If, and this may be a big IF, Greene, Lodolo and Ashcraft all stay heatlhy and pitch like we expect, that's a big time win. We need a couple of position players to have big years. We've not had that. Brandon Drury, until he was traded was our team MVP and it wasn't even close. Kyle Farmer is a great guy and he's taken an opportunity to go from being irrelevant to being an everyday major league player AND hitting in the top half of the lineup. But, he's a utility player at best on a contending team.
 
Orin Swift said:
Now tell me how much those teams are worth. Then you’ll see how dumb your point is. Well, you probably won’t. Most people would.
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All you said is to spend money. No one ever says that owners overspend, but just as they appear to be cheap, you can also overspend. For $100 million dollars of payroll, the Red Sox got 16 more wins than the Reds.
My focus for this team moving forward is development of the kids, and the contract stuff will take care of itself.
 
14Red said:
Just imagine how the Boston Red Sox ($223 million), Chicago White Sox ($208 million), LA Angels ($193 million), SF Giants ($168 million) Chicago Cubs ($166 million) and many others teams feel who spent way more than the Reds and still didn't make the playoffs.
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You really don't get it, no matter how many times we say it. Of course spending does not guarantee winning - we all get that. The teams you listed have made poor spending decisions and/or had some bad luck with injuries.

But NOT spending almost guarantees NOT winning. There are occasional exceptions, like Cleveland this year, Tampa a couple times. But in general (24 of 25 years), the champion has a top 12 payroll.

To win:
- step 1 is to have ownership willing to spend.
- Step 2, have a sharp GM and scouting organization to spend it wisely.
- Step 3, have a manager and coaches to develop players and make good decisions.
- Step 4, avoid a rash of injuries

Without step 1, everything else becomes much harder. In the Reds case. they fail step 2 as well. With Bell calling the shots, step 3 is a fail also. So a losing season was always a guarantee. Mix in the injuries, and you get 100 losses.
 
In other news, Seattle opened the playoffs with a 4-0 win at Toronto. Luis Castillo pitched 7+ shutout innings. Suarez had 2 RBI and scored another. But hey, Bob saved some money and we have some kids who may be good, some day, hopefully?
 
wolves82 said:
You really don't get it, no matter how many times we say it. Of course spending does not guarantee winning - we all get that. The teams you listed have made poor spending decisions and/or had some bad luck with injuries.

But NOT spending almost guarantees NOT winning. There are occasional exceptions, like Cleveland this year, Tampa a couple times. But in general (24 of 25 years), the champion has a top 12 payroll.

To win:
- step 1 is to have ownership willing to spend.
- Step 2, have a sharp GM and scouting organization to spend it wisely.
- Step 3, have a manager and coaches to develop players and make good decisions.
- Step 4, avoid a rash of injuries

Without step 1, everything else becomes much harder. In the Reds case. they fail step 2 as well. With Bell calling the shots, step 3 is a fail also. So a losing season was always a guarantee. Mix in the injuries, and you get 100 losses.
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Bingo. Perfect post.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
wolves82 said:
In other news, Seattle opened the playoffs with a 4-0 win at Toronto. Luis Castillo pitched 7+ shutout innings. Suarez had 2 RBI and scored another. But hey, Bob saved some money and we have some kids who may be good, some day, hopefully?
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I think every Reds fan had to feel a little bit like a proud uncle or cousin seeing Luis Castillo roll through a playoff game like that yesterday. I saw Suarez chip in a couple hits including the first RBI of the game.

It was also nice to see Nick Castellanos score the go-ahead run for the Phillies in the 9th yesterday.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
I think we’ll leave this thread open through this weekend for any more post-mortem thoughts about the 2022 Reds season, then lock it down and move on to 2023.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
14Red said:
All you said is to spend money. No one ever says that owners overspend, but just as they appear to be cheap, you can also overspend. For $100 million dollars of payroll, the Red Sox got 16 more wins than the Reds.
My focus for this team moving forward is development of the kids, and the contract stuff will take care of itself.
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Way to not answer the question. How much are the Red Sox, White Sox, Cubs, Angels and Giants worth?
 
Orin Swift said:
Way to not answer the question. How much are the Red Sox, White Sox, Cubs, Angels and Giants worth?
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I have no idea, but they have more to spend. At the end of the day, we have no say in what the Reds pay for players, so you can't either root for them, or go find a team that you like better who has an infinite amount of money. I still contend that just spending money doens't guarantee success.
 
AEW Champion said:
I think every Reds fan had to feel a little bit like a proud uncle or cousin seeing Luis Castillo roll through a playoff game like that yesterday. I saw Suarez chip in a couple hits including the first RBI of the game.

It was also nice to see Nick Castellanos score the go-ahead run for the Phillies in the 9th yesterday.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Click to expand...
I'll be honest, I don't have that kind of feelings about former players. Players come and go, they certainly have the ability to control where and if they go, but at the end of the day it's a business and many want to maximize their earning power, and that's fine. I don't root for Reds players after they leave for the most part.
 
AEW Champion said:
I think we’ll leave this thread open through this weekend for any more post-mortem thoughts about the 2022 Reds season, then lock it down and move on to 2023.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Click to expand...
My main thoughts from the 2022 season, good and bad...
-lockout, late start
-Castillo not being ready to start the season - never really got a good reason why
- 3-22 start buried the team from the jump
-injuries, injuries, injuries
- Continued struggles from veterans Votto, Moustakas, Senzel,
- Explosion on the scene of Brandon Drury

Good - the maturation of Greene, Lodolo and Ashcraft. Diaz in the bullpen
Bad - injuries to India, Stephenson, Votto
Ugly - the constant disruption of the bullpen and other starters - you never felt like there was any real solid stretch where our pitching was in place.
 
14Red said:
I have no idea, but they have more to spend. At the end of the day, we have no say in what the Reds pay for players, so you can't either root for them, or go find a team that you like better who has an infinite amount of money. I still contend that just spending money doens't guarantee success.
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They are all worth significantly more than the Reds. You think there might be a connection there?

If you can’t afford to field a competitive team, you can’t afford an MLB team no matter how much the franchise is worth.
 
14Red said:
I have no idea, but they have more to spend. At the end of the day, we have no say in what the Reds pay for players, so you can't either root for them, or go find a team that you like better who has an infinite amount of money. I still contend that just spending money doens't guarantee success.
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I'm going to post this again, on both Reds threads, to force you to look at it. You cannot ignore facts.
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You really don't get it, no matter how many times we say it. Of course spending does not guarantee winning - we all get that. The teams you listed have made poor spending decisions and/or had some bad luck with injuries.

But NOT spending almost guarantees NOT winning. There are occasional exceptions, like Cleveland this year, Tampa a couple times. But in general (24 of 25 years), the champion has a top 12 payroll.

To win:
- step 1 is to have ownership willing to spend.
- Step 2, have a sharp GM and scouting organization to spend it wisely.
- Step 3, have a manager and coaches to develop players and make good decisions.
- Step 4, avoid a rash of injuries

Without step 1, everything else becomes much harder. In the Reds case. they fail step 2 as well. With Bell calling the shots, step 3 is a fail also. So a losing season was always a guarantee. Mix in the injuries, and you get 100 losses.
 
wolves82 said:
I'm going to post this again, on both Reds threads, to force you to look at it. You cannot ignore facts.
--------------------------
You really don't get it, no matter how many times we say it. Of course spending does not guarantee winning - we all get that. The teams you listed have made poor spending decisions and/or had some bad luck with injuries.

But NOT spending almost guarantees NOT winning. There are occasional exceptions, like Cleveland this year, Tampa a couple times. But in general (24 of 25 years), the champion has a top 12 payroll.

To win:
- step 1 is to have ownership willing to spend.
- Step 2, have a sharp GM and scouting organization to spend it wisely.
- Step 3, have a manager and coaches to develop players and make good decisions.
- Step 4, avoid a rash of injuries

Without step 1, everything else becomes much harder. In the Reds case. they fail step 2 as well. With Bell calling the shots, step 3 is a fail also. So a losing season was always a guarantee. Mix in the injuries, and you get 100 losses.
Click to expand...
With these 4 steps, the Reds...

Step 1 - no
Step 2 - possibly, not going to commit just yet.
Step 3 - No - major disappointment in the way this team develops players
Step 4 - No - I hope the medical staff is evaluated to see if there is any correlation in how we train and injuries.

I can take these same steps and attach them to other teams and Step 1 does not make teams win. To just fork over money "just because". Did you see the contract the Braves gave to Spencer Strider, a very good young pitcher for them. 6 years/ $75 mill. Very under market value in today's baseball. I'm not sure I 100% agree with your #1. Now the Reds have spent poorly (Moustakas, Pham, Minor, Miley last year,) but I do think they are willing to spend. Many of you always fall back on the Castellenos situation. He's simply not as good as the contract he ended up getting from the Phillies. Yes, the Phillies made the playoffs this year, but it wasn't due to him.
 
14Red said:
With these 4 steps, the Reds...

Step 1 - no
Step 2 - possibly, not going to commit just yet.
Step 3 - No - major disappointment in the way this team develops players
Step 4 - No - I hope the medical staff is evaluated to see if there is any correlation in how we train and injuries.

I can take these same steps and attach them to other teams and Step 1 does not make teams win. To just fork over money "just because". Did you see the contract the Braves gave to Spencer Strider, a very good young pitcher for them. 6 years/ $75 mill. Very under market value in today's baseball. I'm not sure I 100% agree with your #1. Now the Reds have spent poorly (Moustakas, Pham, Minor, Miley last year,) but I do think they are willing to spend. Many of you always fall back on the Castellenos situation. He's simply not as good as the contract he ended up getting from the Phillies. Yes, the Phillies made the playoffs this year, but it wasn't due to him.
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Once again: you turn around my point. I never said "Spending insures Winning". I said "NOT spending pretty much insures NOT winning". It is the first step in the process of winning.

PS: The Braves are one of the smart teams - they typically spend a lot but spend it wisely, because they also have step 2 and 3 covered.
 
Knowing that the Reds will be bad again next year, do they get rid of David Bell or does it even matter? In reality, he needs to go but at the same time why would bring in someone new?
 
wolves82 said:
Once again: you turn around my point. I never said "Spending insures Winning". I said "NOT spending pretty much insures NOT winning". It is the first step in the process of winning.

PS: The Braves are one of the smart teams - they typically spend a lot but spend it wisely, because they also have step 2 and 3 covered.
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Are they a smart team, or a lucky team? I think all teams feel like their drafting and developing properly. The Reds do not have the runway that many of these other franchises have. The Yankees have guys they just leave off the postseason roster because they have other guys that can do the job. The Reds can afford to "miss". And before you say "sell the team" that's not you, or I or any other fans decision. The Castellini's own the team, they are not required to sell it. It's gained value since they bought it. So it's pointless beating that horse over and over.
 
Zezzo! said:
Knowing that the Reds will be bad again next year, do they get rid of David Bell or does it even matter? In reality, he needs to go but at the same time why would bring in someone new?
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I think it's very difficult to sell to a group of players that "we'll be bad". So to your point, fans may think that, but I'm pretty sure the Reds are planning on being competitive next season. Now alot of things will have to go their way to accomplish that, namely not starting off 3-22. I'm not a David Bell fan at all, I think they should had moved on from him when they cut the other coaches loose. My guess is Bell starts the season and part way through, unless they somehow compete, he'll be let go.
 
At a glance as the Reds head into the offseason - with an eye on spring training 2023

Starting pitching - Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft, Cessa?, Dunn?, Anderson? the 3 kids are locks, #'s 4 &5 starting spots look to be between Anderson, Cessa and Justin Dunn. The Reds could go get a FA vet. No way Mike Minor returns.

Bullpen- There are literally 20 names that could go here. guys that didn't pitch in 2022 or very little that will return is Antone, Sims, Gutierrez, Santillan. At this point bullpen locks would be Diaz, Sanmartin. This is the area we need to focus the most on improving.

Infield - at this point, Votto, Moustakas, India, Barrero, Steer, Farmer, Lopez. Votto, Moustkas, India, Farmer are locks. Honestly, I've seen enough of Jose Barrero to move on from him. He's simply not capable of hitting major league pitching.

Outfield - Senzel, Fraley, Friedl, Steer, Fairchild. - I like Fraley the best out of this bunch, I feel the Reds should go get a legit outfield bat and put them in the middle of the lineup.
 
Can we please let the 2022 season thread die? Someone already opened a 2023 season thread for speculation about next year.
 
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