Northwest Ohio Realignment

What is the upside for the TCL to do that? And what is a scheduling "alliance?"
The benefits of a conference is, among others, stability. Teams dont have to worry about scheduling most of their games and can focus on some out of conference matchups. TCL has only 6 teams, which means they have only 5 automatic games per year in football and 10 on basketball. Lima will have 0 automatic games in both. Some sort of deal would allow them to get 5 automatic games each year. Not sure if they would want to be full members for the other sports or not. They could join the BVC for girls soccer or volleyball and would be competitive at best.
 
eastisbest said:
What is the upside for the TCL to do that? And what is a scheduling "alliance?"


The benefits of a conference is, among others, ...

I don't believe he was talking full fledged conference and the TCL already has a conference.

Gives one extra team to play week 4 and 5, especially if the SBC ever starts crossovers.

"Alliance" in this case would more just lock Lima into playing TCL teams week 4 and 5, whether it's teams that also show interest or the TCL picks them. That would leave 5 per week instead of 6 looking for games on the 2 hardest week's to schedule.

You appear to be talking about upside for Lima. What does SBC have to do with TCL? For the TCL to lock themselves into something, there would seem to need be some benefit that is going to off-set the obvious increase in cost. It's not going to be ticket revenue, on this we all seem to agree.

To ME, this sounds like discussion from other conferences trying to off-load their problems/guilt trips/whatever on to the TCL. If this were about helping out a far district, the NLL, TRAC and the private schools are better situated to do that. For the TCL teams, Lima is a by individual AD choice OOC option same as any team and vise-versa. Not a conference mandate. Nor should it be. There is no purpose to a legalese "alliance." It would be counter-productive for both the TCL and for Lima.
 
What does the SBC have to do with the TCL? Everything, if they start playing week 4 and 5 crossovers like I believe someone mentioned earlier in the thread. 2021 week 4 and 5 games for TCL teams....

Start: Clyde & Bellevue
Waite: Brunswick & Howland
Bowsher: Port Clinton & Oak Harbor
Rogers: Walsh Jesuit & Port Clinton
Woodward: Oak Harbor & Edison
Scott: Vermilion & Clyde

12 games, 9 against the SBC. The other 3 against teams in Eastern Ohio. You telling me that if the SBC ever decides to do crossovers instead (or any combo of 8 breaks off and starts their own league) the TCL could just magically solve that big of a scheduling gap?

Lima and the Toledo privates, while not ideal, would make a huge dent. It's not "unloading problems on the TCL." It actually would be HELPING the TCL, but ok. If they don't want it, they can continue to go on the road to who knows where and continue getting pounded. At least here there's one school a couple could beat and 3 options in the same city.
 
What does the SBC have to do with the TCL? Everything, if they start playing week 4 and 5 crossovers like I believe someone mentioned earlier in the thread. 2021 week 4 and 5 games for TCL teams....

Start: Clyde & Bellevue
Waite: Brunswick & Howland
Bowsher: Port Clinton & Oak Harbor
Rogers: Walsh Jesuit & Port Clinton
Woodward: Oak Harbor & Edison
Scott: Vermilion & Clyde

12 games, 9 against the SBC. The other 3 against teams in Eastern Ohio. You telling me that if the SBC ever decides to do crossovers instead (or any combo of 8 breaks off and starts their own league) the TCL could just magically solve that big of a scheduling gap?
There really are not a lot of football games in that list that were competitive. Is the SBC paying the TCL to play those games? I guess that's besides the point. Those are recent schedules, not long historical ones. If those games went away, others would replace. Simply because those teams would fill with something, leaving other teams open. It's a zero sum game.

I think you're discussing a problem that isn't there, not yet anyhow. Lima wouldn't fix it anyhow. Lima would still be available for OOC or someone else would without a conference affiliation or an "alliance." I would never suggest locking down on a commitment unless it had potential to balance the books. There's no balancing that commute for an urban district with eyes on the money. Unless they can show it would be economically beneficial, taking in the expense of Lima would attract eyes I suspect the TCL would rather not have on them.
 
eastisbest said:
What is the upside for the TCL to do that? And what is a scheduling "alliance?"




I don't believe he was talking full fledged conference and the TCL already has a conference.



You appear to be talking about upside for Lima. What does SBC have to do with TCL? For the TCL to lock themselves into something, there would seem to need be some benefit that is going to off-set the obvious increase in cost. It's not going to be ticket revenue, on this we all seem to agree.

To ME, this sounds like discussion from other conferences trying to off-load their problems/guilt trips/whatever on to the TCL. If this were about helping out a far district, the NLL, TRAC and the private schools are better situated to do that. For the TCL teams, Lima is a by individual AD choice OOC option same as any team and vise-versa. Not a conference mandate. Nor should it be. There is no purpose to a legalese "alliance." It would be counter-productive for both the TCL and for Lima.
I don't have a dog in the fight. I just feel bad for Lima because they are in a tough situation. The TCL is also in a tough situation with their number of teams. Some sort of agreement, formal or informal, would benefit both, in my opinion. Lima is very similar to TCL teams in most athletics. Their football is better than most of them. But Start and, occasionally, Rogers, would give them a run for their money. Their basketball is also better than most. But the games would be competitive. On the other sports on the boys side they are on par. On the girls side, their basketball is good and could compete with Start and Rogers (although I think they are a little below those two). Every other sport on the girls side is about the same.

If Lima is without a league, it would be a scheduling nightmare for them for their sports. Football would probably figure something out, but the others would struggle, in my opinion. This idea would give them 5 guaranteed games per year in football and 10 in basketball. Currently in the TRAC they get 7 and 14 games. That is a lot of games to go and find if you are not in a conference or have some sort of relationship.

Although I think the NLL or WBL is a better fit for them (which has been discussed ad nauseam), something between the TCL and Lima would be a great fit as well.

As for the TCL, their league is small, at only 6 teams. They range from D1 through D4. The quality of the TCL is, as you know, suspect. They are forced to find games anywhere they can find them with teams that are independent or have an unusual conference schedule that would allow an OOC game in weeks 4 and 5. Scheduling Lima for each of these schools would eliminate 1 of the 5 OOC games that they need to fill each year. If not Lima, than I think an agreement or something with the Cleveland Senate League or Akron City Series would be beneficial. If not a full schedule than something like the ACC/Big 10 Challenge in NCAA basketball every year.

Just my two cents.
 
Even with 16 team play-offs there are always teams willing to roll the dice on which city league team will get the conference wins. Start is a solid bet but they can also beat you. Rolling Scott was a loser for the OOC but a winner for the T2's they brought in last season. This brought a couple TCL teams points enough to make play-offs.

Yes, everyone is hurting for Lima but only NLL, TRAC and the private schools are in the economic position to do anything for them. TCL can do OOC but conference commitments? I'd wonder if that is affordable. As I wrote, it would bring outside eyes onto the TCL's economics. I doubt they want that.

For OOC, sure. Not for charity. For the good experience playing Lima can bring if AD and coach's feel the team would benefit.
 
Just not enough options in NW Ohio, especially since there's really no mid size Parochials that would work. You've got 3 D2 private schools & a few small D6-D7 ones that can barely keep their doors open. An Elyria Catholic type school would be absolutely perfect in the NLL. That's the big problem with Lima, outside of football/basketball is it worth having them drive up to Perrysburg to get mercied in baseball? Or to lose by dozens of strokes in a golf match in Sylvania? It's probably best for Lima to be independent so they can schedule to skill level based on sport, but aligned in the two main ones. Tough spot all around
 
Just not enough options in NW Ohio, especially since there's really no mid size Parochials that would work. You've got 3 D2 private schools & a few small D6-D7 ones that can barely keep their doors open. An Elyria Catholic type school would be absolutely perfect in the NLL. That's the big problem with Lima, outside of football/basketball is it worth having them drive up to Perrysburg to get mercied in baseball? Or to lose by dozens of strokes in a golf match in Sylvania? It's probably best for Lima to be independent so they can schedule to skill level based on sport, but aligned in the two main ones. Tough spot all around
I can't see Lima going north for a league. They also burned too many bridges with the WBL. Lima has shown that they will be a loyal league member but the GWOC seems like the best fit if it would accept them.
 
I can't see Lima going north for a league. They also burned too many bridges with the WBL. Lima has shown that they will be a loyal league member but the GWOC seems like the best fit if it would accept them.
I can see it for the revenue sports, but it's going to be quite ugly in the "travel" and "club" sports against the suburban schools of Toledo. They don't have a cross country or golf team, finished 7th in Boys Soccer and last in girls soccer, tennis, volleyball . What good does having them in a league for these sports do anyone? It'd be best if they took the Notre Dame approach, Football/Basketball in NLL, but independent in all other sports
 
I can't see Lima going north for a league. They also burned too many bridges with the WBL. Lima has shown that they will be a loyal league member but the GWOC seems like the best fit if it would accept them.
The GWOC and MVL in the Dayton area will not accept Lima. The GWOC has an even number of all D1 schools relatively close to each other. They kicked Trotwood out after 1 season post MVL schools breaking off because they wanted and even number of teams (Lebanon left the conference) and they were smaller than D1.
 
I can see it for the revenue sports, but it's going to be quite ugly in the "travel" and "club" sports against the suburban schools of Toledo. They don't have a cross country or golf team, finished 7th in Boys Soccer and last in girls soccer, tennis, volleyball . What good does having them in a league for these sports do anyone? It'd be best if they took the Notre Dame approach, Football/Basketball in NLL, but independent in all other sports
Could or would Lima be a fit in the MAC, BVC, or WBL or whatever other conference for other sports? Did you know that Cleveland St. , Georgia Southern, Appalachian St., and the Mountaineers of West Virginia are all members of the Mid American Conference?

They all are as affiliate members for wrestling (CSU), men's soccer (GSU and WVU), and field hockey (App. St.). Lima would be a good fit talent wise for the non revenue sports in a small school league.
 
You think Lima's AD might discover something the state auditor does not?

That's hilarious.
No. Wasnt my original comment. Just was replying. I think the comment was geared toward gate revenue and things like that, not bigger issues.
 
You think Lima's AD might discover something the state auditor does not?

That's hilarious.

You're hilarious but that's a different topic. :D He was responding to one of my arguments as to why TCL might not want to add Lima to conference. It wasn't really about gate, more about operating costs and not the state auditor (but interesting you'd jump there), rather the tax base paying for things.
 
There were a few that come to mind although I cannot give you an example followed by a citation from a WBL school or representative expressing resentment, in that way it's a matter of me inferring the reaction. Recently there was a basketball player from Elida that transferred to LSH for his senior year. He was a decent post player. What I don't know is whether he was dissatisfied with the state of the program at Elida or was essentially pilfered, although from the people I've talked to it seems like it was a bit of each.

Another example is from a while back. I hadn't been living in the Lima area for very long but remember a very strong Wapakoneta football team playing Lima in the season opener and losing like 63-0. Barry Blackstone was the head coach for LSH and apparently decided not to call off the dogs. Perhaps someone can correct me but I think Wapak was 9-1 or 8-2 and won the WBL that year with the Hammerstein brothers, Todd Erb etc. They were pretty good. I was working in Wapak at the time and many people weren't too shot in the butt with how the game was handled. Again, I cannot speak for the Wapak school personnel. BTW, if you haven't already figured it out, I'm old.

There are others, but I think that there has been festering resentment toward Lima Senior at Bath and Elida for a while. Couple that with how some programs are non-competitive or non-existent plus aside from basketball Lima doesn't travel well. My observation and experience has been that Lima runs a good athletic department in general administratively but that doesn't guarantee control over the renegades whoever they might be.
 
Could or would Lima be a fit in the MAC, BVC, or WBL or whatever other conference for other sports? Did you know that Cleveland St. , Georgia Southern, Appalachian St., and the Mountaineers of West Virginia are all members of the Mid American Conference?

They all are as affiliate members for wrestling (CSU), men's soccer (GSU and WVU), and field hockey (App. St.). Lima would be a good fit talent wise for the non revenue sports in a small school league.
Not a bad idea but issue is what benefit would any of those leagues get from adding Lima?
 
You're hilarious but that's a different topic. :D He was responding to one of my arguments as to why TCL might not want to add Lima to conference. It wasn't really about gate, more about operating costs and not the state auditor (but interesting you'd jump there), rather the tax base paying for things.
You imagine TCL would have to share that information with the Lima AD?

That's hilarious.
 
You imagine TCL would have to share that information with the Lima AD?

That's hilarious.
You seem to be making up some story in your head. Not one person has mentioned Lima AD. You're hilarious. Maybe come back after your drunk wears off and you have the coherency to actually read the post threads you are responding to so that you know WHAT you are responding to.
 
Stop trying bucc. Your social comments on here long ago made your opinions porous and made your disgusting mindset apparent. It's not possible for you to put anyone on the defensive, no one that has seen your history will feel a need to defend let alone the inadequacy of your formulaic attempt.

Now stop acting like a jilted lover. The act is making you even more pathetic. Go find a new one. That's how you'll survive. Hell, find twins. Even better for the heart. Or the pancreas. I forget which.
Love ya too bud.
 
The fact that the Whitmer/TCC game won't be played anymore is a travesty and downright bad for NW Ohio football.
Something Central and the other privates chose with their self-serving and tone-deaf actions during time of crisis. They saw an opportunity to profit at the expense and they took it. ? It's not good for the area but it's not travesty either. It's just change. Nothing in the grand scope has been lost and they will probably eventually play in some fashion.
 
Would Start ever be a viable option for the NLL? I think they could compete athletically but could they even branch away from the other publics?

What about Bedford?
 
Would Start ever be a viable option for the NLL? I think they could compete athletically but could they even branch away from the other publics?

What about Bedford?
Highly doubt Start would be allowed to split from the TCL as it's part of the Toledo Public School System, as is the rest of the TCL.

I don't think Bedford wants to be in another all Ohio league (old GLL). They seem to have a good system in place already. What benefits would they receive from joining the NLL.
 
Highly doubt Start would be allowed to split from the TCL as it's part of the Toledo Public School System, as is the rest of the TCL.

I don't think Bedford wants to be in another all Ohio league (old GLL). They seem to have a good system in place already. What benefits would they receive from joining the NLL.
cheaper gas, better roads, less likely to be labeled "racist" for winning... little things.
 
Something Central and the other privates chose with their self-serving and tone-deaf actions during time of crisis. They saw an opportunity to profit at the expense and they took it. ? It's not good for the area but it's not travesty either. It's just change. Nothing in the grand scope has been lost and they will probably eventually play in some fashion.
Are you sure you're not a Catholic with your holy than thou posts? Good grief guy, if there was an award for "Most Sanctimonious Poster" you'd be the clear cut winner. Holy smokes.

To echo what Buc said, it is a shame because it's been Central & Whitmer's world for the last decade and we're just living in it around here. Since 2009 the Panthers have lost only 3 conference games to schools not named Central Catholic (not counting COVID year). Ross in 2014, and St Francis in 2009 & 2013. You split these schools up and their only real competition is gone for a conference title
 
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