Holdbacks Baby!!!

is the concept of NIL money coming out of hs even a discussion? lol.. come one..these kids aren't holding back for NIL deals

the club that is being talked about feeds a HUGE hs with some of the best facilities in the state/country.
the program this club is feeding also has miron feeding it.
the program has a well known OSU alumni as its head coach
they are preaching holding back for an advantage
The program isn't projected to score 30 points at the state tournament
what am I missing here?
 
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wrestlfan said:
is the concept of NIL money coming out of hs even a discussion? lol.. come one..these kids aren't holding back for NIL deals

the club that is being talked about feeds a HUGE hs with some of the best facilities in the state/country.
the program this club is feeding also has miron feeding it.
the program has a well known OSU alumni as its head coach
they are preaching holding back for an advantage
The program isn't projected to score 30 points at the state tournament
what am I missing here?
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You are missing the fact that the majority of kids in the club don't or will not go to the HS you referenced. The message is sent out to all...even future HS team direct opponents.
 
I am a huge Brakan fan. He doesn't sugar coat anything to the wrestlers or their parents. He is not offensive by any stretch to normal people that aren't hurt by hearing the truth. He cares about his wrestlers, and only wants the best for them. This topic is not new, we all know many great high school wrestlers that have been held back in school a year for development. I did not hold my son back but that is everyone's choice. This world definitley could use a few more like Coach Mead. Hearing the truth is never going to hurt a wrestler. Life/wrestling is tough, the sooner a kid figures out what all of the options are from a competitive standpoint, the better they will be at making an informed decision.
 
Ohiowrestler42 said:
I am a huge Brakan fan. He doesn't sugar coat anything to the wrestlers or their parents. He is not offensive by any stretch to normal people that aren't hurt by hearing the truth. He cares about his wrestlers, and only wants the best for them. This topic is not new, we all know many great high school wrestlers that have been held back in school a year for development. I did not hold my son back but that is everyone's choice. This world definitley could use a few more like Coach Mead. Hearing the truth is never going to hurt a wrestler. Life/wrestling is tough, the sooner a kid figures out what all of the options are from a competitive standpoint, the better they will be at making an informed decision.
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I've heard nothing but good things about him also.
something thing are better left unsaid in the professional world
 
Ohiowrestler42 said:
I am a huge Brakan fan. He doesn't sugar coat anything to the wrestlers or their parents. He is not offensive by any stretch to normal people that aren't hurt by hearing the truth. He cares about his wrestlers, and only wants the best for them. This topic is not new, we all know many great high school wrestlers that have been held back in school a year for development. I did not hold my son back but that is everyone's choice. This world definitley could use a few more like Coach Mead. Hearing the truth is never going to hurt a wrestler. Life/wrestling is tough, the sooner a kid figures out what all of the options are from a competitive standpoint, the better they will be at making an informed decision.
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100%. My son has been training under Brakan for more than 5 years, and I couldn’t be happier to have him as my son’s coach. He’s obviously phenomenal at breaking down technique, especially for younger kids who may struggle understanding certain positions, but his honesty and willingness to engage kids/parents with a tough conversation from time to time have always stood out to me.
 
Crab Ride said:
Crab Ride said:
Mr. Mead? Lol. The only person who thinks back to a HS athletic performance is Al Bundy. If that is what YOU are thinking about you haven’t accomplished much in life. Go tell a bunch of dudes you don’t know that you won Ironman or that you went to MIT. What do you think is more impressive?
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Ironman. 1400+ students were excepted to MIT last year. 14 won Ironman.
What is more important? MIT no doubt!
JMO
 
Joe Daugherty said:
Ironman. 1400+ students were excepted to MIT last year. 14 won Ironman.
What is more important? MIT no doubt!
JMO
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maybe, maybe not... ask the richest man in the world whether he would prefer that bigtime college acceptance or someone who has outworked 99 percent of their peers in an effort to prevail at their craft--- itd be interesting to hear what musk would say
 
wrestlfan said:
maybe, maybe not... ask the richest man in the world whether he would prefer that bigtime college acceptance or someone who has outworked 99 percent of their peers in an effort to prevail at their craft--- itd be interesting to hear what musk would say
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This right here is the lunacy of the argument. You don’t think the students accepted at MIT outworked their peers?? I can assure you they have and it’s a much larger pool they are competing with. Go back 10 years and look at the winners of Ironman vs the top 14 students in the MIT graduating class and see whose been more successful. Do you really believe Elon Musk would rather hire a college wrestler over an MIT grad? Better yet, look at the majors of the top college wrestlers. Just a glance at PSU’s roster. Arguably their 3 best wrestlers, Kerk, Starocci and Brooks all majored in Recreation, Parks and Tourism Management. I’m sure that’s a coincidence and not because it’s a useless degree that they are steered towards so they can actually major in wrestling.
 
Crab Ride said:
This right here is the lunacy of the argument. You don’t think the students accepted at MIT outworked their peers?? I can assure you they have and it’s a much larger pool they are competing with. Go back 10 years and look at the winners of Ironman vs the top 14 students in the MIT graduating class and see whose been more successful. Do you really believe Elon Musk would rather hire a college wrestler over an MIT grad? Better yet, look at the majors of the top college wrestlers. Just a glance at PSU’s roster. Arguably their 3 best wrestlers, Kerk, Starocci and Brooks all majored in Recreation, Parks and Tourism Management. I’m sure that’s a coincidence and not because it’s a useless degree that they are steered towards so they can actually major in wrestling.
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What kind of jobs are kerk, starocci, and Brooks going to have?
It wasn't said top 14 mit grads, it was said MIT students. Big difference.
Yes you can fart your way through hs, test well and get into a very good school
Heck the school I teach at will have 10 plus valedictorians this year. Lol.
 
Crab Ride said:
This right here is the lunacy of the argument. You don’t think the students accepted at MIT outworked their peers?? I can assure you they have and it’s a much larger pool they are competing with. Go back 10 years and look at the winners of Ironman vs the top 14 students in the MIT graduating class and see whose been more successful. Do you really believe Elon Musk would rather hire a college wrestler over an MIT grad? Better yet, look at the majors of the top college wrestlers. Just a glance at PSU’s roster. Arguably their 3 best wrestlers, Kerk, Starocci and Brooks all majored in Recreation, Parks and Tourism Management. I’m sure that’s a coincidence and not because it’s a useless degree that they are steered towards so they can actually major in wrestling.
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We had a kid from our school get into MIT this year. He went to the vocational school. Good kid and all. But outworked his peers-- no
 
Crab Ride said:
This right here is the lunacy of the argument. You don’t think the students accepted at MIT outworked their peers?? I can assure you they have and it’s a much larger pool they are competing with. Go back 10 years and look at the winners of Ironman vs the top 14 students in the MIT graduating class and see whose been more successful. Do you really believe Elon Musk would rather hire a college wrestler over an MIT grad? Better yet, look at the majors of the top college wrestlers. Just a glance at PSU’s roster. Arguably their 3 best wrestlers, Kerk, Starocci and Brooks all majored in Recreation, Parks and Tourism Management. I’m sure that’s a coincidence and not because it’s a useless degree that they are steered towards so they can actually major in wrestling.
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Some kids are just smarter and pave a better financial path due to that, do they work "harder" maybe, likely, maybe not. ...But moving along, I know some Ironman champs, multi finalists that chose education over wrestling as their next chapter, some still wrestled, some do not, but as example choosing and being academically capable enough to be accepted at an Ivy League school, likely means that ELITE recruit no longer will put wrestling first...there are very few Jesse Jantzen's. Almost ALL elite recruits that continue to want to put wrestling first go to schools that understand education matters in terms of eligibility but wrestling is their job. Much harder to do what Jesse Jantzen did , than going to Iowa and make the big bucks and a NCAA title. Several Ironman champs are making more money than MIT grads......but most of them chose a stellar academic college and no longer put wrestling as #1.
 
How does the world view wrestling and age? No, I'm not bashing hold backs. It's none of my business what another family decides. But, how does the world compete?
 
I think maybe lost in the conversation/debate around holdbacks is the reality that athletes only have a certain capacity of milage and wear & tear physically and mentally. Of course there are outliers and rare freaks, but for most, I've always thought 10 years is about the limit for most training hard before the mind, body and desire breakdown, which leads to the question of at what age is it appropriate to push the pedal to the floor AND what are the implications of extending that one more year before HS?

I don't have the data at my fingertips, but it's something like only 3% of all high school wrestlers will go onto compete in College at any level, less than 1% at the D1 level. I'd be curious to know the stats around the % of athletes that start wrestling in college (top 3% in HS), but do not complete at least 4 years competing in the sport. My guess would be that number is high. College wrestling (at any level) is a grind - period. Life happens- injuries, academics, girls, social life, or just simply getting beat in the room day after day can be tough on a kid who has been a winner his whole life. Whatever your HS resume says, you enter the room as a freshman and very quickly the accomplishments that you think define you (your state title, Fargo AA, 200 wins, Prom King, etc.) don't mean a thing when day after day you are getting hammered by stronger, tougher, hungrier upper classmen who probably won't even bother to learn your name unless you can help them reach their goals. Keep in mind the Coach that's encouraging MS kids to hold back was a holdback himself, won a HS state title, but then only wrestled 2 years in college before retiring.

Perhaps a better message to the youth is around learning to love the sport, learning to love the grind but also and more importantly keep it all in balance. Use it as a tool to build resiliency, grit, toughness - which are going to come in handy in life. Wrestling can take a kid to amazing places, but chasing non existent $$ seems like an empty Pursuit.
 
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I enjoy wrestling said:
How does the world view wrestling and age? No, I'm not bashing hold backs. It's none of my business what another family decides. But, how does the world compete?
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the perception placed on overseas youth and Ms wrestling is VERY VERY different from the experience I had taking my son overseas to wrestle.
In conversations (which I had as many as I could) the kids would wrestle 100 plus matches a year. THe kids cut weight to extremes just like the majority of the top youth and Ms kids here do. The amount of kids coming out of a sauna with plastics on, shredding them and getting wiped down before stepping on the scale was crazy.
I don't think those kids were IVing up like many of the popular big American names are. At least it wasn't told to me that they were. The idea that its not a guessing game with the kids ages is laughable.
I had a dad go off on me and my son at Columbus day duals last year saying my kid was 15 and I was cheating letting him wrestle youth. Parents of other kids spend way to much time worrying about other kids ages .
 
LucMurphy134 said:
I think maybe lost in the conversation/debate around holdbacks is the reality that athletes only have a certain capacity of milage and wear & tear physically and mentally. Of course there are outliers and rare freaks, but for most, I've always thought 10 years is about the limit for most training hard before the mind, body and desire breakdown, which leads to the question of at what age is it appropriate to push the pedal to the floor AND what are the implications of extending that one more year before HS?

I don't have the data at my fingertips, but it's something like only 3% of all high school wrestlers will go onto compete in College at any level, less than 1% at the D1 level. I'd be curious to know the stats around the % of athletes that start wrestling in college (top 3% in HS), but do not complete at least 4 years competing in the sport. My guess would be that number is high. College wrestling (at any level) is a grind - period. Life happens- injuries, academics, girls, social life, or just simply getting beat in the room day after day can be tough on a kid who has been a winner his whole life. Whatever your HS resume says, you enter the room as a freshman and very quickly the accomplishments that you think define you (your state title, Fargo AA, 200 wins, Prom King, etc.) don't mean a thing when day after day you are getting hammered by stronger, tougher, hungrier upper classmen who probably won't even bother to learn your name unless you can help them reach their goals. Keep in mind the Coach that's encouraging MS kids to hold back was a holdback himself, won a HS state title, but then only wrestled 2 years in college before retiring.

Perhaps a better message to the youth is around learning to love the sport, learning to love the grind but also and more importantly keep it all in balance. Use it as a tool to build resiliency, grit, toughness - which are going to come in handy in life. Wrestling can take a kid to amazing places, but chasing non existent $$ seems like a empty Pursuit.
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"Learn to love the sport" and the journey. It comes to an end for 99%.
 
Do what is best for your kid, again it is YOUR kid nobody else's, F%&k what other people think. They aren't paying your bills or raising your kids. Its your choice and your journey not theirs, in the end you do it for the experience and you get to spend an extra year with your kid before you send them off to college, is that such a bad thing? I'm still waiting to hear from the person that held their kid back and regretted it, I hear from plenty that wish they would have held their child back. America still the Greatest Country in the World, you have the right to make your own decisions...MAGA
 
SPGT said:
I can guarantee one thing not one Ironman winner or MIT grad is on thread or gives 2:poop:'s what anyone thinks about their accomplishments in life. you wanna be successful at anything you have to put in the work, there are no short cuts!
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Karmala Harris would beg to differ with you. She's "short-cutted" clear to within a shaved pubic hair of the presidency by simply being the right gender, the right shade & kneeling low, rather than walking tall. For the rest of us, yes, there are no shortcuts...
 
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nooks said:
Karmala Harris would beg to differ with you. She's "short-cutted" clear to within a shaved pubic hair of the presidency by simply being the right gender, the right shade & kneeling low, rather than walking tall. For the rest of us, yes, there are no shortcuts...
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There’s always an outlier! 😂
 
nooks said:
Karmala Harris would beg to differ with you. She's "short-cutted" clear to within a shaved pubic hair of the presidency by simply being the right gender, the right shade & kneeling low, rather than walking tall. For the rest of us, yes, there are no shortcuts...
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she wasn't close to presidency... she polled at zero percent and dropped out of the primary. the only reason she is a candidate now is because that is the only way the Dems could keep all their money for the election. they will hide her like they did joe
 
whippet175 said:
Last May I attended our local high school senior awards assembly. A good number of kids won scholarship money amounting to tens of thousands of dollars. Much more than the kids who received athletic money.
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With a price tag of $35,000+ a year for college, why would a kid not try and get both?
 
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LucMurphy134 said:
I think maybe lost in the conversation/debate around holdbacks is the reality that athletes only have a certain capacity of milage and wear & tear physically and mentally. Of course there are outliers and rare freaks, but for most, I've always thought 10 years is about the limit for most training hard before the mind, body and desire breakdown, which leads to the question of at what age is it appropriate to push the pedal to the floor AND what are the implications of extending that one more year before HS?

I don't have the data at my fingertips, but it's something like only 3% of all high school wrestlers will go onto compete in College at any level, less than 1% at the D1 level. I'd be curious to know the stats around the % of athletes that start wrestling in college (top 3% in HS), but do not complete at least 4 years competing in the sport. My guess would be that number is high. College wrestling (at any level) is a grind - period. Life happens- injuries, academics, girls, social life, or just simply getting beat in the room day after day can be tough on a kid who has been a winner his whole life. Whatever your HS resume says, you enter the room as a freshman and very quickly the accomplishments that you think define you (your state title, Fargo AA, 200 wins, Prom King, etc.) don't mean a thing when day after day you are getting hammered by stronger, tougher, hungrier upper classmen who probably won't even bother to learn your name unless you can help them reach their goals. Keep in mind the Coach that's encouraging MS kids to hold back was a holdback himself, won a HS state title, but then only wrestled 2 years in college before retiring.

Perhaps a better message to the youth is around learning to love the sport, learning to love the grind but also and more importantly keep it all in balance. Use it as a tool to build resiliency, grit, toughness - which are going to come in handy in life. Wrestling can take a kid to amazing places, but chasing non existent $$ seems like a empty Pursuit.
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My favorite post. You are a wrestler!
 
LucMurphy134 said:
I think maybe lost in the conversation/debate around holdbacks is the reality that athletes only have a certain capacity of milage and wear & tear physically and mentally. Of course there are outliers and rare freaks, but for most, I've always thought 10 years is about the limit for most training hard before the mind, body and desire breakdown, which leads to the question of at what age is it appropriate to push the pedal to the floor AND what are the implications of extending that one more year before HS?

I don't have the data at my fingertips, but it's something like only 3% of all high school wrestlers will go onto compete in College at any level, less than 1% at the D1 level. I'd be curious to know the stats around the % of athletes that start wrestling in college (top 3% in HS), but do not complete at least 4 years competing in the sport. My guess would be that number is high. College wrestling (at any level) is a grind - period. Life happens- injuries, academics, girls, social life, or just simply getting beat in the room day after day can be tough on a kid who has been a winner his whole life. Whatever your HS resume says, you enter the room as a freshman and very quickly the accomplishments that you think define you (your state title, Fargo AA, 200 wins, Prom King, etc.) don't mean a thing when day after day you are getting hammered by stronger, tougher, hungrier upper classmen who probably won't even bother to learn your name unless you can help them reach their goals. Keep in mind the Coach that's encouraging MS kids to hold back was a holdback himself, won a HS state title, but then only wrestled 2 years in college before retiring.

Perhaps a better message to the youth is around learning to love the sport, learning to love the grind but also and more importantly keep it all in balance. Use it as a tool to build resiliency, grit, toughness - which are going to come in handy in life. Wrestling can take a kid to amazing places, but chasing non existent $$ seems like a empty Pursuit.
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I agree 100%
LucMurphy134 said:
I think maybe lost in the conversation/debate around holdbacks is the reality that athletes only have a certain capacity of milage and wear & tear physically and mentally. Of course there are outliers and rare freaks, but for most, I've always thought 10 years is about the limit for most training hard before the mind, body and desire breakdown, which leads to the question of at what age is it appropriate to push the pedal to the floor AND what are the implications of extending that one more year before HS?

I don't have the data at my fingertips, but it's something like only 3% of all high school wrestlers will go onto compete in College at any level, less than 1% at the D1 level. I'd be curious to know the stats around the % of athletes that start wrestling in college (top 3% in HS), but do not complete at least 4 years competing in the sport. My guess would be that number is high. College wrestling (at any level) is a grind - period. Life happens- injuries, academics, girls, social life, or just simply getting beat in the room day after day can be tough on a kid who has been a winner his whole life. Whatever your HS resume says, you enter the room as a freshman and very quickly the accomplishments that you think define you (your state title, Fargo AA, 200 wins, Prom King, etc.) don't mean a thing when day after day you are getting hammered by stronger, tougher, hungrier upper classmen who probably won't even bother to learn your name unless you can help them reach their goals. Keep in mind the Coach that's encouraging MS kids to hold back was a holdback himself, won a HS state title, but then only wrestled 2 years in college before retiring.

Perhaps a better message to the youth is around learning to love the sport, learning to love the grind but also and more importantly keep it all in balance. Use it as a tool to build resiliency, grit, toughness - which are going to come in handy in life. Wrestling can take a kid to amazing places, but chasing non existent $$ seems like a empty Pursuit.
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I agree 100%. I was a decent HS wrestler. I have two sons who both wrestled in High school. I never pushed them. One day they saw all my trophies and told me they would do better than me. Get this, they were in the 8th and 7th grades at this time. Oldest boy placed twice (3-4) in Ohio and was a Brakeman #1. Youngest was a state alternate his senior year. Oldest went to Ohio U and was their 285 for 4 years. Youngest joined the Army and was their combative fighting champion. Both kids did this on their own. They are now living a way better life than me and I am a retired contractor who did pretty good. I never made 250 grand a year but my kids do. Love the sport and do what you do!!
 
FirestoneFan said:
I agree 100%

I agree 100%. I was a decent HS wrestler. I have two sons who both wrestled in High school. I never pushed them. One day they saw all my trophies and told me they would do better than me. Get this, they were in the 8th and 7th grades at this time. Oldest boy placed twice (3-4) in Ohio and was a Brakeman #1. Youngest was a state alternate his senior year. Oldest went to Ohio U and was their 285 for 4 years. Youngest joined the Army and was their combative fighting champion. Both kids did this on their own. They are now living a way better life than me and I am a retired contractor who did pretty good. I never made 250 grand a year but my kids do. Love the sport and do what you do!!
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Cheers to you, to your sons, and to whatever role the sport of wrestling has contributed to their success!
 
LucMurphy134 said:
I think maybe lost in the conversation/debate around holdbacks is the reality that athletes only have a certain capacity of milage and wear & tear physically and mentally. Of course there are outliers and rare freaks, but for most, I've always thought 10 years is about the limit for most training hard before the mind, body and desire breakdown, which leads to the question of at what age is it appropriate to push the pedal to the floor AND what are the implications of extending that one more year before HS?

I don't have the data at my fingertips, but it's something like only 3% of all high school wrestlers will go onto compete in College at any level, less than 1% at the D1 level. I'd be curious to know the stats around the % of athletes that start wrestling in college (top 3% in HS), but do not complete at least 4 years competing in the sport. My guess would be that number is high. College wrestling (at any level) is a grind - period. Life happens- injuries, academics, girls, social life, or just simply getting beat in the room day after day can be tough on a kid who has been a winner his whole life. Whatever your HS resume says, you enter the room as a freshman and very quickly the accomplishments that you think define you (your state title, Fargo AA, 200 wins, Prom King, etc.) don't mean a thing when day after day you are getting hammered by stronger, tougher, hungrier upper classmen who probably won't even bother to learn your name unless you can help them reach their goals. Keep in mind the Coach that's encouraging MS kids to hold back was a holdback himself, won a HS state title, but then only wrestled 2 years in college before retiring.

Perhaps a better message to the youth is around learning to love the sport, learning to love the grind but also and more importantly keep it all in balance. Use it as a tool to build resiliency, grit, toughness - which are going to come in handy in life. Wrestling can take a kid to amazing places, but chasing non existent $$ seems like a empty Pursuit.
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last statement, empty Pursuit, is that a play on words type thing on Pursuit Wrestling, hahhaa
 
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