DeWine To Deliver A Statewide Address @ 5:30pm Today

winbypin said:
That's all you posted too. Your opinion. Actually, yours is just speculation. "The masks might have kept cases from going even higher.".
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Yes, exactly. Is yours not speculation either? Neither of our opinions have enough evidence to be proven right. So without that evidence, isn't it better to err on the side of caution? What have we lost by wearing masks? And don't reply with your freedom - it's lazy and also untrue.
 
oxat622 said:
Yes, exactly. Is yours not speculation either? Neither of our opinions have enough evidence to be proven right. So without that evidence, isn't it better to err on the side of caution? What have we lost by wearing masks? And don't reply with your freedom - it's lazy and also untrue.
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Yes, the deal the left always offers in the face of crises (sometimes real, mostly conjured) is we give up our rights in exchange for some kind of promised, but not guaranteed, safety or security.

No thanks.

Those who will trade liberty for a promise of safety deserve neither.
 
oxat622 said:
Yes, exactly. Is yours not speculation either? Neither of our opinions have enough evidence to be proven right. So without that evidence, isn't it better to err on the side of caution? What have we lost by wearing masks? And don't reply with your freedom - it's lazy and also untrue.
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Mental health, hypoxia, gum disease, false sense of security,lying to the public and so on
 
oxat622 said:
Yes, exactly. Is yours not speculation either? Neither of our opinions have enough evidence to be proven right. So without that evidence, isn't it better to err on the side of caution? What have we lost by wearing masks? And don't reply with your freedom - it's lazy and also untrue.
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It's better to err on the side of individual liberty.
 
oxat622 said:
Yes, exactly. Is yours not speculation either? Neither of our opinions have enough evidence to be proven right. So without that evidence, isn't it better to err on the side of caution? What have we lost by wearing masks? And don't reply with your freedom - it's lazy and also untrue.
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No. Mine isn't speculation. We were mandated to wear masks. Cases continued to climb. The curve matches the curve for other virus outbreaks. There is actual empirical evidence to support my claim.
 
winbypin said:
No. Mine isn't speculation. We were mandated to wear masks. Cases continued to climb. The curve matches the curve for other virus outbreaks. There is actual empirical evidence to support my claim.
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The shape maybe. What about the size?
 
y2h said:
It's better to err on the side of individual liberty.
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Really? In the face of a once-in-a-century viral pandemic where for almost a year, our only defense was distancing and masks when we couldn't stay apart.
 
oxat622 said:
And don't reply with your freedom - it's lazy and also untrue.
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And dont tell me what I can and cant say. And describing it as lazy and untrue is sophistry and makes you a, well, I'm trying to be patient today.

Just one example: I have a right to freedom of association, personally and in a business sense. That freedom was infringed upon by telling me who I could and couldn't associate with, in what numbers, where, and even what time for a period of time. The govt intentionally scared the public to motivate compliance and therefore made some people too afraid to associate with me in business. There were travel bans.

This govt action harmed me in provable and tangible ways. It cost me an unknown amount of money that I would estimate to be around 30K from 3/20-3/21. Fortunately I am in a position to absorb that loss, but it was felt. It cost me in terms of contact with loved ones and human relationships. It prevented me from being in the same room with my father who was dying in a nursing home of several strokes. And lots of other ways.

Now, surely you do not deny that I have the right cited and that the right was violated, infringed. Its undeniable.

Therefore there is poor reasoning going on in this discussion, and untrue accusations are being posited - and they are coming from, well, its obvious.
 
IVCguy said:
And dont tell me what o can and cant say. And describing it as lazy and untrue is sophistry and makes you a, well, I'm trying to be patient today.

Just one example: I have a right to freedom of association, personally and in a business sense. That freedom was infringed upon by telling me who I could and couldn't associate with, in what numbers, where, and even what time for a period of time. The govt intentionally scared the public to motivate compliance and therefore made some people too afraid to associate with me in business. There were travel bans.

This govt action harmed me in provable and tangible ways. It cost me an unknown amount of money that I would estimate to be around 30K from 3/20-3/21. Fortunately I am in a position to absorb that loss, but it was felt. It cost me in terms of contact with loved ones and human relationships. It prevented me from being in the same room with my father who was dying in a nursing home of several strokes. And lots of other ways.

Now, surely you do not deny that I have the right cited and that the right was violated, infringed. Its undeniable.

Therefore there is poor reasoning going on in this discussion, and untrue accusations are being posited - and they are coming from, well, its obvious.
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Masks didn't do any of that. The rest of the restrictions did.
 
oxat622 said:
Really? In the face of a once-in-a-century viral pandemic where for almost a year, our only defense was distancing and masks when we couldn't stay apart.
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Always chuckle with the once in a century phrase. Always helps justify the draconian measures shoved down our throats.
 
Dewine's decision to seek re-election followed by removing restrictions and bribery to get vaccinated. Hope this helps.
 
I have a right to privacy and to my person and body. You have heard "my body, my choice" from abortion proponents. Their appropriation of that phrase fails to factor that there is another person and body that has to be killed in order for them to exercise this privacy right, but it does describe an aspect of how we understand privacy rights.

So, I have the right to decide what goes on and in my body, and telling me I have to put something on my body, rebreathing my expired waste, is another example of rights infringement.

The mask did that. Wrong again.
 
winbypin said:
What about it? Masks did nothing to alter the outcome. Shape or size.
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We're going in circles here. I've already acknowledged that a spike in fall and winter was always likely. I can't prove masks prevented the spike from being larger and you can't prove that they didn't.

But when human lives are at stake, people who enriched the lives of others and also still contributed to our economy, masks are an incredibly small sacrifice. So small that even if it could be proven they offer little to no protection, the tangible losses from masks alone are negligible.
 
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IVCguy said:
So, I have the right to decide what goes on and in my body, and telling me I have to put something on my body, rebreathing my expired waste, is another example of rights infringement.

The mask did that. Wrong again.
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Translation: my pride was hurt.
 
IVCguy said:
Full disclosure: I hate gambling.

I know I'm a fuddy duddy, but isn't there something unseemly about a government bribing its citizens by appealing to their greed and using a vice like gambling? It just strikes me as a very odd choice.
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DeWine hates gambling as well.

He will put his personal dislikes aside for political gains at the drop of a hat, as he has done here. (he's done it before)

I's disgusting what has done and continues to do here. He is a spineless weasel.
 
oxat622 said:
We're going in circles here. I've already acknowledged that a spike in fall and winter was always likely. I can't prove masks prevented the spike from being larger alone are negligible.
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You should have stopped here. You were doing so good. But then you continued to type...
oxat622 said:
and you can't prove that they didn't.

But when human lives are at stake, people who enriched the lives of others and also still contributed to our economy, masks are an incredibly small sacrifice. So small that even if it could be proven they offer little to no protection, the tangible losses from masks alone are negligible.
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Who said anything about losses from masks? I said they didn't help prevent the spread. It was simply virtue signaling so people like you could feel like you were contributing because you know, "we're all in this together.". You bought the propaganda hook, line, and sinker. Don't feel bad, you're not alone. And you can still double mask if you want. Not everyone will make fun of you.
 
oxat622 said:
But when human lives are at stake, people who enriched the lives of others and also still contributed to our economy, masks are an incredibly small sacrifice. So small that even if it could be proven they offer little to no protection, the tangible losses from masks alone are negligible.
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Says who? We don't know that to be true.
 
winbypin said:
You should have stopped here. You were doing so good. But then you continued to type...

Who said anything about losses from masks? I said they didn't help prevent the spread. It was simply virtue signaling so people like you could feel like you were contributing because you know, "we're all in this together.". You bought the propaganda hook, line, and sinker. Don't feel bad, you're not alone. And you can still double mask if you want. Not everyone will make fun of you.
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Did they prevent A spread from happening? No. But I also never heard anyone, be it a doctor, my neighbor, or internet strangers, make the claim that masks were an impenetrable force field. Did they help keep the spread from being larger than it could have been without them. I think so. I don't know so. And you don't know that the opposite is true either.

Even if somehow it could be proven that masks offered little to no protection all along, big deal. What have I lost? A few dollars buying cloth masks from the store? Not a big loss. Fortunately, my wife and I work essential jobs so our income was never effected. The biggest losses were missing out on opportunities to make memories with my family doing the things we like to do, like take my kids to the zoo, sports, theme parks, go out with my wife, and of course those places losing out on my consumer money. Attendance restrictions caused those losses, not masks. And I don't even protest attendance restrictions either because I understand distancing is far more effective than masks.
 
oxat622 said:
We're going in circles here. I've already acknowledged that a spike in fall and winter was always likely. I can't prove masks prevented the spike from being larger and you can't prove that they didn't.

But when human lives are at stake, people who enriched the lives of others and also still contributed to our economy, masks are an incredibly small sacrifice. So small that even if it could be proven they offer little to no protection, the tangible losses from masks alone are negligible.
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So we are going to wear masks and shut down every fall for the flu?

"If it saves one life"
 
oxat622 said:
Did they prevent A spread from happening? No. But I also never heard anyone, be it a doctor, my neighbor, or internet strangers, make the claim that masks were an impenetrable force field. Did they help keep the spread from being larger than it could have been without them. I think so. I don't know so. And you don't know that the opposite is true either.

Even if somehow it could be proven that masks offered little to no protection all along, big deal. What have I lost? A few dollars buying cloth masks from the store? Not a big loss. Fortunately, my wife and I work essential jobs so our income was never effected. The biggest losses were missing out on opportunities to make memories with my family doing the things we like to do, like take my kids to the zoo, sports, theme parks, go out with my wife, and of course those places losing out on my consumer money. Attendance restrictions caused those losses, not masks. And I don't even protest attendance restrictions either because I understand distancing is far more effective than masks.
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Again...I never said masks caused anyone any loss. Everything you missed out on was caused by the REST of the overreaction to the virus. And that is a whole other discussion.

But...wasn't the zoo, theme parks, restaurants, and even movie theaters open at least part of last year? You didn't have to really miss out on any of those things if you really wanted to go do them. Why didn't you do those things?

Glad you don't think wearing a mask is a "big deal"....what about having to prove you have been vaccinated to go to the movies? Or subject yourself to a swab test before flying? Maybe a blood test before going on a cruise? Maybe a special license plate that let's everyone know you've been vaccinated. Any of those a "big deal" yet? If not, what constitutes a big deal for you? When is enough, too much?
 
thavoice said:
Face it. Far too many were happy with the Gestopo tactics.....
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y2h said:
Frankly its embarrassing and a bit concerning how many went along with it.
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You deserve credit. You were one of a small minority here that saw this for what it was as soon as 2 weeks to flatten the curve became, "this is going to take a while."
 
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