underthelights
Well-known member
I agree. I'm honestly surprised that Stefanski has had the amount of success he has with what the front office has given him.
Cleveland Browns 2024 Edition
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WJ-OSU-STEELERS
Well-known member
I think it is somewhat similar to the former Bengals HC Marvin Lewis. I never though my of Lewis (or Stefanski) as a top HC but based on their franchises historic instabilities and they actual track record (wins-losses); obviously they are both competent head coaches.
In the end, Browns are still playing hard and just who would they get to replace Stefanski? I do not believe it would surprise anyone if the Browns take down KC this week
The first thing that the Browns need to admit is that the team is a mess and is not just one or two pieces from being a contender. Not only does the comparative lack of talent at many positions stick out, the lack of discipline in the play is alarming. I have to believe that a great number of these players are not very bright, but depend totally on physical ability to try to get them through. If Stefanski is to be retained, then the players need to be matched up with whatever system he wants to run.
#1 - a qb must be found who fits in his system : drop back, classic qb who will go through his reads with consistency. But, the front office has been enchanted by the running, freestyle qb that other teams have. Is it any wonder that the most successful qb under Stefanski was Flacco? He fit the system; Watson does not, but the powers to be were hypnotized by his ability to improvise. But, the line never knew what he was going to do, whereas, they always knew where Flacco was going to be. The Browns would have been better off with Cousins.
#2 - recievers who can run good routes and catch the ball. Stop being enchanted with the 4.3 receivers who have had a history of drops.
#3 - rebuild your offensive line. They are getting old and your left tackle spot has been a disaster since Thomas retired. The high draft choice is terrible and his replacement has ended his two seasons on the injured list.
#4. - there are too many other positions to mention, but get players who really have a desire to play, even though they might not be the glamorous names; tough-nosed throwbacks to a bygone era. That's how the Steelers do it consistently. If there is a serious character question, don't put that person on the team. The Browns have had too many players with prior character concerns.
#5 - find a competent person to do the draft. Berry has not done the job, but no one will admit it. And get Haslam out of the process. Those two things might just be the most difficult of all of the points.
#1 - a qb must be found who fits in his system : drop back, classic qb who will go through his reads with consistency. But, the front office has been enchanted by the running, freestyle qb that other teams have. Is it any wonder that the most successful qb under Stefanski was Flacco? He fit the system; Watson does not, but the powers to be were hypnotized by his ability to improvise. But, the line never knew what he was going to do, whereas, they always knew where Flacco was going to be. The Browns would have been better off with Cousins.
#2 - recievers who can run good routes and catch the ball. Stop being enchanted with the 4.3 receivers who have had a history of drops.
#3 - rebuild your offensive line. They are getting old and your left tackle spot has been a disaster since Thomas retired. The high draft choice is terrible and his replacement has ended his two seasons on the injured list.
#4. - there are too many other positions to mention, but get players who really have a desire to play, even though they might not be the glamorous names; tough-nosed throwbacks to a bygone era. That's how the Steelers do it consistently. If there is a serious character question, don't put that person on the team. The Browns have had too many players with prior character concerns.
#5 - find a competent person to do the draft. Berry has not done the job, but no one will admit it. And get Haslam out of the process. Those two things might just be the most difficult of all of the points.
A good start: Toney dumped. New kicker added to practice squad.
brownswire.usatoday.com
Browns waive volatile receiver among gobs of roster moves
The Browns announced a series of roster moves, including the waiving of the former first round wide receiver
brownswire.usatoday.com
nupanther
Well-known member
It's one thing for a entrenched starter to get a 15 yarder. It's another when you're on your 3rd team in 5 years and just signed from the practice squad. I understand these guys are still young, emotional and still lack maturity in some cases. But when your job status is precariously hanging by dental floss, you gotta know when to reel it inA good start: Toney dumped. New kicker added to practice squad.
Browns waive volatile receiver among gobs of roster moves
The Browns announced a series of roster moves, including the waiving of the former first round wide receiver
clarkgriswold
Well-known member
As @tom 48 referenced, this team has no interest in players with character. The face of the team is a proven pervert. Their top draft choice was is a domestic abuser that other teams removed from their draft board due to character issues. Toney is a known NFL reject and bonehead but Berry thinks he can polish a turd. The franchise is owned by a guy who should be in prison for the Pilot Flying J rebate scam.
underthelights
Well-known member
When do we get to Daniel Snyder territory?
You just know that the Haslems are going to botch the new stadium project and set the team back even further.
I don’t disagree with most written on here … but if the Browns had a stud QB … most of the other issues would be hidden … there are two ways to win in the NFL … 1) stud QB & 2) good young QB still on a rookie contract with an elite roster around him … the Browns have neither … good news … with a few tweaks of the roster and a lot of luck getting a QB … the Browns could be back into contention.
I would like to see them go back to a strong running game (2 TEs) paired with an efficient play-action passing game and a solid defense. If it were me I would trade their high 1st round pick for several later 1st round picks and take the best OL & the TE from Penn State and then take a flier on a rookie QB in the 2nd or 3rd round (not sold on the top QBs in this draft) and then fill in holes with the other picks. Finally, I would also sign one of the failed free agent QBs in hope of striking gold … my pick is Justin Fields (but I am an OSU homer and probably bias) … and put DW as scout team QB until it is feasible to cut him.
I would like to see them go back to a strong running game (2 TEs) paired with an efficient play-action passing game and a solid defense. If it were me I would trade their high 1st round pick for several later 1st round picks and take the best OL & the TE from Penn State and then take a flier on a rookie QB in the 2nd or 3rd round (not sold on the top QBs in this draft) and then fill in holes with the other picks. Finally, I would also sign one of the failed free agent QBs in hope of striking gold … my pick is Justin Fields (but I am an OSU homer and probably bias) … and put DW as scout team QB until it is feasible to cut him.
clarkgriswold
Well-known member
With the KC game coming up, it struck me that less than 3 years ago this franchise nearly beat Kansas City to advance to the AFC Championship game. KC has built or maintained since then. This franchise decided it needed an upgrade at QB and completely wasted its period of opportunity in doing so.
I'm with @joesports. Go find this next year's Sam Darnold. Try to get extra first and second rounders and start building.
I'm with @joesports. Go find this next year's Sam Darnold. Try to get extra first and second rounders and start building.
eaglesfan216
Well-known member
I was just talking with a coworker today about the 2020 team and in particular Sheldon Richardson. A guy who just played his position really well and made everyone else around him a little better. Not a superstar by any means, just a really solid player. This years team has nobody like that. While Landry was flashy he was also like that, just played the game hard and was a competitor. Both seemed to be leaders even though they weren't the centerpiece players on O or D.
It's a culture thing, and for all of Dorsey's faults, he is a football guy. There's a reason why Detroit is playing so well. Football guys are just always going to be better than the analytical guys.
Richardson was the veteran who, upon hearing Baker in the locker room defending Mason Rudolph and ripping Myles to reporters after the helmet incident, harshly explained to Baker in no uncertain terms to never throw a fellow teammate under the bus.
John Dorsey is not running Detroit … he something like 4th in line … the is a GM, Assistant GM, and Player Personnel Director above him … so I wouldn’t give him too much credit … second, he is the Einstein that took Baker over Josh Allen … which is the #1 reason this franchise is where it is now and not where Buffalo is … revisionist history on him.
y2h
Well-known member
With all the holes on this team you want to trade the first 1st rounder in 3 years (which, in the only bright side to this miserable season, will be high) and then waste a 2nd or 3rd on a QB, in what is admittedly a weak QB class?
WJ-OSU-STEELERS
Well-known member
Clevleland has a history of destroying the careers of highly drafted QB’s. There is zero guarantee that if Josh Allen were drafted by the Browns that he would have become the Josh Allen of today. Back in the mid 2000’s the Browns selected a solder TE with the 6th overall pick instead of Ben Roethlisberger. If the Browns had selected Roethlisberger his name would have just taken up more space on the shirt with all of the starting qb’s the Browns have had since 1999.
y2h
Well-known member
There's no way to know how Allen develops in Cleveland with a different coaching staff.
underthelights
Well-known member
I agree with all points of this. I am disappointed the Browns got rid of Dorsey in the last house cleaning. He brought in legit football players. As far as WR's go, Landry might have been a little flashy, but he put in work, played hurt, and was a leader on and off the field. I like that you brought up Richardson. I was disappointed when they let him go because he was a team guy. He had no problem eating up blocks and not getting recognition, then made the plays he was supposed to make. I think Garrett would have greatly benefitted from having a guy like that around for a few more years. Watching Garrett, his nickname sticks. All he seems to care about it flash plays. He is an elite pass rusher, but his effort in the run game or when the play goes away is putrid.
I said trade back in the first round … and pick up an extra 1st round pick and maybe more depending where their pick ends up … allows them to make up for trading away all those picks for DW.
Second, I am not sold on taking a QB with a top 5 pick … but I am OK with taking a couple QB with a later pick … it is all about risk vs reward … for example Daniel Jones was taken with the 6th pick … way too high for his value … but if he had fallen to the second or third round … his value for those picks would be better … if you take a iffy QB with a top pick you are passing up on other good players … if you take a iffy QB with a later round pick the players you are passing on are not as good … it is all about value.
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There is no way to know he would not have … sorry but I would always gamble on the more physically talented player than the less physically talented player unless there was character issues … Allen had no character issues … Mayfield was less talented and had some issues … dumb pick … and I like Baker and wish they never traded him … I also think Allen and Stefansky would have worked great together
y2h
Well-known member
Daniel Jones sucks no matter where he was taken. It's a wasted pick no matter where it happened. We don't need to take a QB just to take a QB. Wasting resources on QBs, whether draft picks or the Watson debacle, has held this franchise back as much as anything else. Chasing the next Payton Manning when it's been proven you can win with Trent Dilfer.
Instead of Brandon Weedon we could've had a foundational piece. Instead of Johnny Manzeil we could've had a foundational piece. Instead of Brady Quinn we could've had a foundational piece. And of course the disaster of robbing the team of 3 first round foundational pieces along with the salary cap hell of the Watson deal.
Why negate the advantage of this terrible season? Take the best player available at 5 or 6 whether it's o line or wherever and do the same thing in the 2nd round and build from there. Stop chasing the white whale of HOF QB.
y2h
Well-known member
Accuracy was a huge question mark for Allen coming into the draft. To his credit he worked and overcame it. Lack of accuracy in college is a red flag with the tighter windows in the NFL. Despite his athletic ability he could've easily gone bust in the wrong place.
Even so, Haslam is not opposed to looking at the future of the position this offseason. When asked about quarterback by Fowler, Haslam didn't dismiss the idea of somebody different next season. "We need to get through the season and we will look at everything," Haslam said.
This is the first time that Haslam has even hinted at evaluating the status of Watson moving forward. The veteran completed 63.4% of his passes for 1,148 yards and five touchdowns to three interceptions in seven games before his season-ending Achilles injury.
www.si.com
This is the first time that Haslam has even hinted at evaluating the status of Watson moving forward. The veteran completed 63.4% of his passes for 1,148 yards and five touchdowns to three interceptions in seven games before his season-ending Achilles injury.
Browns Owner Jimmy Haslam Finally Acknowledges Team's Quarterback Problem
Cleveland will look into 'everything' this offseason, including the quarterback position.
www.si.com
Cedar_Point
Well-known member
4 years ago
underthelights
Well-known member
He'd be about 195 miles away.
But seriously, I think Allen would have been fine. Obviously, there are variables and maybe he wouldn't be seen as a top 5 quarterback in the league, but I don't think he would have flopped. It is hard to tell though. There is no way to tell if he would have dealt with injuries like Baker, if OBJ and his dad would have liked him, etc. etc. etc... I don't think the coaching in Cleveland vs the coaching in Buffalo is really all that far apart in quality. The main difference is that Buffalo seems to have a capable owner. But your opinion is as valid as mine because there really is no way to tell, I just happen to be a fan of the way Josh Allen plays the game.
High 1st round picks hurt much more than 2nd & 3rd round misses … you just named all the Browns 1st round bust Weedon, Quinn, & Manzeil … but not the later round misses like McCoy Frye, & Kizer … thanks for proving my point … and saying you can win with Trent Dilfer … how many times has that happened … let’s list them … Dilfer & Foles … don’t like the odds if you don’t have an elite QB … I agree you don’t chase them recklessly … but taking a flyer later in the draft is not reckless … you could get lucky like NE with Brady, SF with Purdy, Seattle with Wilson and Drew Brees was not a 1st round pick.
I like the idea of getting multiple picks instead of one 1st round pick … to make up for the ones they wasted in the DW trade … but that depends on where the pick is, who is available at that pick, and what you can get for trading back.
Great, more politicians involved. When will we hear from Rep. Josh Williams of flag-planting infamy?
Gov. Mike DeWine is becoming personally involved in the Cleveland Browns stadium issue, holding meetings with team owners and Cleveland Mayor Justin Bibb.
DeWine told reporters Wednesday that he’s “in a fact-gathering process at this point.” Lt. Gov. Jon Husted told cleveland.com/The Plain Dealer that the governor wants to get both sides on the same page about a stadium deal.
www.cleveland.com
Gov. Mike DeWine is becoming personally involved in the Cleveland Browns stadium issue, holding meetings with team owners and Cleveland Mayor Justin Bibb.
DeWine told reporters Wednesday that he’s “in a fact-gathering process at this point.” Lt. Gov. Jon Husted told cleveland.com/The Plain Dealer that the governor wants to get both sides on the same page about a stadium deal.
Gov. Mike DeWine ramps up involvement in the Browns stadium fight
Gov. Mike DeWine says he's holding meetings with team owners and Cleveland Mayor Justin Bibb about the issue.
www.cleveland.com
clarkgriswold
Well-known member
2021, well, January of '21. Almost 4. Same sentiment.
clarkgriswold
Well-known member
I bet London, Austin, San Antonio, Portland....would be more than happy to build a stadium.Great, more politicians involved. When will we hear from Rep. Josh Williams of flag-planting infamy?
Gov. Mike DeWine is becoming personally involved in the Cleveland Browns stadium issue, holding meetings with team owners and Cleveland Mayor Justin Bibb.
DeWine told reporters Wednesday that he’s “in a fact-gathering process at this point.” Lt. Gov. Jon Husted told cleveland.com/The Plain Dealer that the governor wants to get both sides on the same page about a stadium deal.
Gov. Mike DeWine ramps up involvement in the Browns stadium fight
Gov. Mike DeWine says he's holding meetings with team owners and Cleveland Mayor Justin Bibb about the issue.