Irwin20
Well-known member
Ok, uncle.
CHL 2024/2025 preview/season thread
- Thread starter 93 red ls
- Start date
yappimember67
Well-known member
Add in the success of the soccer team (2020 state title, consistent top 3 CHL team) and the growing popularity of the sport and they're losing a few athletes there too.
MyNameIsDoug?
Well-known member
I’m not saying that haven’t gotten kids from other districts or areas at all, but just that one year gave them a handful of good athletes. Kinda crazy. They also went away from OE for a bit, but are now back to it
MyNameIsDoug?
Well-known member
I’m not sure on the enrollment part so I’m going to believe you on that, but something they don’t have that a lot of kids at schools like IH, MM and Wyoming have is money. Those schools may or may not be smaller, but they have a lot better/more resources than Three Rivers and Cleves can offer.
93 red ls
Well-known member
It was strictly b/c of #'s in the classes to why they didn't take any , ALSO one of the "covid perks" was they were getting a grant for 10K for each kid.
The 2026 class DEF prolly has the most OE out of any (again going to guess) I would imagine those kids wanted to stay together and weren't hip to the OH's way of things and decided to migrate down Bridgetown road!
Now that is gone. I believe the OE fee is $2500 a kid. (i could be wrong on that # but I heard thats what it is)
This is only partially true and sounds more like a political statement given by a candidate when they want to generalize. Are there kids in Three Rivers who can't afford personalized instruction, club sports, etc......yes. Are there still a whole lot who can and do participate.......YES.
realityking
New member
I couldn't agree more. Taylor has a beautiful school with really nice facilities, equal if not better than any school in the CHL. They dominate in Volleyball and I would dare to say most of those girls in the program play on club teams, which cost a ton of money! Baseball won 4 straight CHL championships not long ago, those kids all play club baseball, even a lot of the kids in the program now. Softball has been a dominant program as well. Basketball has been respectable and getting better, due to quality coaches and I am sure there are a number of kids playing AAU. The only schools that can use the resources argument are Finneytown and Deer Park. The schools themselves truly do not have a lot of money to invest in their athletics and a lot of kids that are high level athletes that live in these communities end up going to a Roger Bacon, St. X, Moeller etc. so it is very hard for them!
Three Rivers has come a long way from being not much more than lower income river community with an endzone on a hill. We used to have their Superintendent in to speak to education classes at MSJ in the early 2000's. I'm friends with quite a few folks who still live in the area and am over there a few times per year. There is money in the area and those families are becoming more prevalent. I realize, they still have a decent amount of lower SES folks in the community but the comment you made, makes it seems like they are the majority and they are not anymore. We also forget that Mariemont's district has Fairfax - typical run-of-the-mill middle class community and also borders Madisonville (only has a shooting about once/month). Not sure where the boundary is between the two but the homes along the border aren't anything special. Indian Hill has some sketchy apartment/condo spots in Kenwood along Montgomery Rd and the mall and if there wasn't a sign, you wouldn't know where Deer Park ended and Indian Hill began between Kenwood/Blue Ash Rd. Maderia has a trailer park.
This data is from 4 years ago but recent enough that it's still relevant IMO. They are higher than Milford and only about $3K per year different average AGI than Kings. I don't think we'd even think to talk about those districts like they don't have some wealth.
Every school district in Ohio, ranked by income
Eight of the 20 highest income school districts in Ohio are from the Greater Cleveland/Akron.
www.cleveland.com
93 red ls
Well-known member
yea I couldn't agree more. the 2027 class has a TON of baseball only kids. (I coach our summer team) the 15,000+ budget for next year will say that is true LOL! We have multiple kids in our 2026 class who play for Yeager, weststars and The Raiders organization
Most of our Varsity VB roster plays club. A big chunk of boys/girls soccer play club. Just about every kid (minus 2-3) that played Varsity basketball play AAU.
Most of our Varsity VB roster plays club. A big chunk of boys/girls soccer play club. Just about every kid (minus 2-3) that played Varsity basketball play AAU.
93 red ls
Well-known member
Appreciate the kind words for our district!
We have our flaws with facilities for sure (no on-site weight room) but our Boosters/Athletics have been busting their tails to raise the funds to build an indoor training complex! and we have had a TON of alumni support in the last few years with donations as well!
Any one who has never taken in a baseball game at our park is missing out! one of the nicest fields/parks in the area!
Three Rivers has come a long way from being not much more than lower income river community with an endzone on a hill. We used to have their Superintendent in to speak to education classes at MSJ in the early 2000's. I'm friends with quite a few folks who still live in the area and am over there a few times per year. There is money in the area and those families are becoming more prevalent. I realize, they still have a decent amount of lower SES folks in the community but the comment you made, makes it seems like they are the majority and they are not anymore. We also forget that Mariemont's district has Fairfax - typical run-of-the-mill middle class community and also borders Madisonville (only has a shooting about once/month). Not sure where the boundary is between the two but the homes along the border aren't anything special. Indian Hill has some sketchy apartment/condo spots in Kenwood along Montgomery Rd and the mall and if there wasn't a sign, you wouldn't know where Deer Park ended and Indian Hill began between Kenwood/Blue Ash Rd. Maderia has a trailer park.
This data is from 4 years ago but recent enough that it's still relevant IMO. They are higher than Milford and only about $3K per year different average AGI than Kings. I don't think we'd even think to talk about those districts like they don't have some wealth.
Every school district in Ohio, ranked by income
Eight of the 20 highest income school districts in Ohio are from the Greater Cleveland/Akron.
Interesting List. Here's where the different CHL schools rank based on Average AGI (out of 612 listed districts):
#1) Indian Hill - - - (Average AGI: $393,918)
#11) Wyoming - - - (Average AGI: $151,172)
#12) Mariemont - - - (Average AGI: $146,065)
#22) Madeira - - - (Average AGI: $124,039)
#58) Three Rivers - - - (Average AGI: $83,070)
#163) Finneytown - - - (Average AGI: $60,490)
#379) Deer Park - - - (Average AGI: $50,315)
#450) Reading - - - (Average AGI: $47,477)
Club volleyball is stupid expensive. My daughter is on a national level team. I could take the entire family on a nice, weeklong vacation for what it costs which is only the fee to play - no hotels, food, gate fees, etc.
I bet most of us could have guessed the order. No surprise there. There is still a pretty significant gap between the top 4 and the bottom 4. As far as education is concerned I think the percentage of students that qualify for free or reduced meals is a better gauge than AGI.
Percent of Students that qualify for free/reduced lunch program:
IH 3%
Wyoming 6%
Madeira 9%
Mariemont 10%
Three Rivers 35%
Deer Park 40%
Finneytown 62%
Reading 64%
93 red ls
Well-known member
I feel this!!!
3 tournaments for PBR and Pastime this summer for our baseball team is $5100 just for entry fee's
we just booked our "stay to play" for the youth baseball national world series in Myrtle Beach each family is on the hook for $2400 for 6 nights the 1st week of July! Not counting the $1495 the event cost to enter LOL!
My son made a select baseball team too this year....lucky me LOL. It's all good. i love watching them.
4GX
Well-known member
THIS is a racket-- they are basically shaking down families who are delusional enough to think that THEIR kid is going to be either a college (Division I) and/or professional baseball player-- when reality is... not many (if any) will be... These "showcase" tournaments are a sham-- the scouts KNOW (and FIND) the real high-level baseball players WITHOUT the benefit of needing to go to these shakedown events...
93 red ls
Well-known member
No one is holding a gun to any of the parents heads in order to play/travel.
Out of our 14 kids I would say we have 3-5 that have a shot to play baseball at the next level!
(most of our roster is Taylor , but I do have Harrison, Oak Hills , Elder and Lakota East on my team ALL of which made their HS team)
Part of that is playing in PBR to get the exposure.
We have been to a TON of nice facilities over the year's to play ball (lake point GA , Publix @ PCB, Grand park, Ripken in both Pigeon Forge and Myrtle Beach, Etown KY , Shipyard South Carolina) Id do it all over again with my youngest if that's the route he wants to do regardless if he wants/intends to try to play at the next level.
I've coached my oldest son in baseball since he was 4. And I would say I am the exact opposite of what most dad's that coach their kids are like.
My son is a small lefty who can play OF and pitches, not a ton of velo but has some off speed stuff that he can locate and miss some barrels.
My kid has been a Rf'er and hit 8-10 in the order on any team I have coached with him on it in our Organization!
Fast forward to His 1st year of HS baseball he played RF for JV and hit in the 9 hole. Granted he did lead JV in innings pitched and Was the only pitcher not to record a loss (3-0)
I only say that last part b/c i have some buddies who have coached their kids inside of large well known organizations for years and come to Freshmen year their kids didn't even make their HS freshmen team. but bet your bottom dollar they were playing SS and batting leadoff in summer ball lol!
93 red ls
Well-known member
Enjoy it!!! it flies by , cant believe mine will be a Sophomore
4GX
Well-known member
Yes-- of course-- no one is holding a gun to any of the parents' heads in order to play/travel... They make these decisions voluntarily-- but the vast majority of them are entirely delusional about the future potential of their sons (or daughters, in many women's sports, as well)...
And these tournaments KNOW that-- which is how/why they get away with these extortionist fees for these tournaments-- SO MANY parents are convinced that "if only Little Johnny can get SEEN at that BIG tournament, where all these 'national power' type clubs will be, then MAYBE some scout is going to recognize what an undiscovered gem Little Johnny is-- and sign him to a College Division I or pro offer"... but it's just very unlikely to happen...
93 red ls
Well-known member
I agree , and I say it and have said it. Doesn't matter the size of your school for ANY sport if you are good enough they will find you.
Does it help with PBR/PG/pastime scouting these events and blowing up social media. Yea , it helps but parents and the kids have to help in that process too. Social Media is a power tool when used correctly and too your advantage.
But as a parent you have to be realistic with your kids ability as well!
That’s what I was talking about. Dealing with kids from those demographics is a big challenge when the percentages reach a certain level. IH & Wyoming… barely any thought needed. Madeira, Mariemont… eh, not much. Taylor & Deer Park… more than a third of their population. You can bet they spend some real effort dealing with it. The two on the bottom have some monumental challenges. Schools don’t talk about it much. They probably don’t want to blame those kids but if you get involved deeply enough it’s a real eye opener.
4GX
Well-known member
I would not have guessed at the disparity (on the side of poverty) in Finneytown versus Deer Park-- and I never would have guessed that both Finneytown and Reading are SO much more beset by this issue than Deer Park... Reading is literally one of the poorest districts in the state-- I did NOT know that... I spend quite a bit of time over there, and while I think of Reading as very "blue collar, working class", I didn't think of it as being stridently poor/poverty stricken-- but this data would say otherwise...
4GX
Well-known member
I saw this result today:
Withrow (1-5) beat Taft 19-14
... with ALL the talk on this thread about the merits of Taft (accompanied by no little disparagement of Wyoming-- which has beaten Taft the last 2-3 times they played), it made me think-- it really puts the CHL down in an unfavorable light-- even in the estimation of (presumably) CHL fans who are commenting here:
1) Wyoming is clearly the first or second best team in the CHL...
2) People here seem SO certain that Taft would wipe the floor with Wyoming this year...
3) However, I KNOW that Withrow is NOT a good team-- I watched a mediocre St. X team (for St. X and for Division I) just dismember Withrow--it was 31-0 at the half, and thus a running clock for the entire second half-- it took ~26 minutes of elapsed time to play a 24-minute second half... Withrow was not well coached, well organized, or competent at much of anything...
4) Withrow then beat Taft-- for its ONLY win of the season so far...
5) The transitive property doesn't ALWAYS hold-- but it can tell you a lot...
6) My conclusion: If Withrow can beat Taft, Taft is NOT a good team (even in Division IV)...
7) If Taft is NOT a good team, then that suggests (by dint of the Taft bandwagoners here) that NO ONE in the CHL is really much good...
I tend to disagree with the end conclusion (in the second part of #7 above)-- which, then, suggests that Taft is NOT all that much better than Wyoming, as some here have pronounced...
Withrow (1-5) beat Taft 19-14
... with ALL the talk on this thread about the merits of Taft (accompanied by no little disparagement of Wyoming-- which has beaten Taft the last 2-3 times they played), it made me think-- it really puts the CHL down in an unfavorable light-- even in the estimation of (presumably) CHL fans who are commenting here:
1) Wyoming is clearly the first or second best team in the CHL...
2) People here seem SO certain that Taft would wipe the floor with Wyoming this year...
3) However, I KNOW that Withrow is NOT a good team-- I watched a mediocre St. X team (for St. X and for Division I) just dismember Withrow--it was 31-0 at the half, and thus a running clock for the entire second half-- it took ~26 minutes of elapsed time to play a 24-minute second half... Withrow was not well coached, well organized, or competent at much of anything...
4) Withrow then beat Taft-- for its ONLY win of the season so far...
5) The transitive property doesn't ALWAYS hold-- but it can tell you a lot...
6) My conclusion: If Withrow can beat Taft, Taft is NOT a good team (even in Division IV)...
7) If Taft is NOT a good team, then that suggests (by dint of the Taft bandwagoners here) that NO ONE in the CHL is really much good...
I tend to disagree with the end conclusion (in the second part of #7 above)-- which, then, suggests that Taft is NOT all that much better than Wyoming, as some here have pronounced...
93 red ls
Well-known member
""Just for reference Withrow beat Taft last year 31-0""
When Jones left Withrow they opened the flood gates to all the kids leaving there that came to play football. Add on top of that playing 3 of the 4 GCL -S schools ....
Withrow is 4 pts from being 3-3 and only losses to all GCL schools. (Woulda shoulda coulda i know)
Tafts other loss is to 5-1 Mt Healthy.
Mt Healthy hung 62 on Ross that Wyoming put up 35 against the previous week
Alter lost their starting senior QB during the Withrow game. Had to start a Back up vs Taft the very next week and has even made another change since then to a freshmen.
The kicker when comparing Wyoming and Taft is Wyoming is and has been a team that's offense has flowed through 1 kid.
Prater-hester-hancock
There are 10 kids w/just as much if not more athletic ability than Hancock at taft. Better football players? No. Better athletes by far yes.
When Jones left Withrow they opened the flood gates to all the kids leaving there that came to play football. Add on top of that playing 3 of the 4 GCL -S schools ....
Withrow is 4 pts from being 3-3 and only losses to all GCL schools. (Woulda shoulda coulda i know)
Tafts other loss is to 5-1 Mt Healthy.
Mt Healthy hung 62 on Ross that Wyoming put up 35 against the previous week
Alter lost their starting senior QB during the Withrow game. Had to start a Back up vs Taft the very next week and has even made another change since then to a freshmen.
The kicker when comparing Wyoming and Taft is Wyoming is and has been a team that's offense has flowed through 1 kid.
Prater-hester-hancock
There are 10 kids w/just as much if not more athletic ability than Hancock at taft. Better football players? No. Better athletes by far yes.
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MyNameIsDoug?
Well-known member
It’s not political at all? Lol what? Last I heard (within the last year) something like 40% of kids in Three Rivers live below the poverty line. And yes, of course you’re right that there are kids who can and do do those things, but that’s still a big number of kids who probably can’t and certainly isn’t generalizing.
I obviously don’t check this enough and missed some things, but I see some people showed the AGI and free lunch numbers. I’m wondering if AGI is based strictly on the families at the school or who live in the district? Because there are plenty of families in that district who send their kids to private schools that might disproportionately affect those numbers. Looks like it does say district so my original point stands. I just think the CHL is a somewhat unique league in the disparity between the schools and, when you look through the history of the league, that tends to be reflected in most sports standings.
My guess would be the AGI stats are based on families who live in the district - not just those who attend the schools. Hence why Finneytown has a higher AGI than Deer Park but more students who qualify for free and reduced lunch. FT loses a lot more kids to private schools/open enrollment.
We do it simply to play and get better at the things my kids are passionate about. I do think some fees are excessive but if you want your kids to continue to grow and maximize their potential, you don't have much of a choice. The CHL isn't exactly a Volleyball powerhouse conference. Taylor is really good but they are the only CHL team ranked in the top 25 of any division. If I want my daughter to get better, she has to play against better competition - i.e. club. My son's knothole baseball team went 20-2 and won their post season tournament. It doesn't help my son get any better playing poor competition. We run ruled 13 of those 20 wins. The next step in his development is playing for a Bronze/Silver level select baseball team. They may not end up playing DI or any division in college for that matter. I was a 5'11 offensive lineman in D3. I still think you still owe it to your kids to put them in a position to be successful. I'm doing it for academics too. My son is taking the Walnut Hills test next weekend. Unfortunately, maximizing your athletic potential does come at a price and when you're trying to "keep up with the Joneses" people like to capitalize on the market.
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For sports like VB, Baseball, etc. where you do have to "try out" to be on the team, it gets tricky in higher income schools or larger districts to be seen if you DONT play club. One, the girls who do club are going to be better and more likely to make the HS team and Two, club might be the only option to play at all. It may not exactly be the thought of exposer at the Big Tournament, but being in a position to get any type of exposer. Indian Hill's 8th grade VB team has 10 of their 12 girls on a club team. There are some club kids who tried out and didn't make the team. This is probably a bigger deal once you get to HS and you have 4 classes of girls trying out for 12 varsity spots. Simple math says some good players are going to be left out and off the team
Baseball, basketball, soccer.....are all probably similar. At a school like DP, that isn't as much of an issue cause not as many kids have the financials to participate in those opportunities.