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Guard pulls on a power play and turns up through a hole to block a linebacker. Linebacker fills the hole and just before contact with the pulling guard the linebacker dives to the guard's legs and cuts them out creating a pile rather than engaging the guard. Is this legal in HS football? Settling an argument.
 
akron1 said:
Guard pulls on a power play and turns up through a hole to block a linebacker. Linebacker fills the hole and just before contact with the pulling guard the linebacker dives to the guard's legs and cuts them out creating a pile rather than engaging the guard. Is this legal in HS football? Settling an argument.
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Illegal block below the waist on the linebacker. The state has emphasized calling this when done to a lead blocker, usually another back, but in this case the guard.
 
Has anyone heard what the numbers are like for new refs? I heard more "advertising" last fall about becoming a ref and wondering if all the marketing helped...
 
Rush Limbaugh said:
Has anyone heard what the numbers are like for new refs? I heard more "advertising" last fall about becoming a ref and wondering if all the marketing helped...
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The usual indicator is who took the new officials course (which would be going on about now). But with the ability to take it online anytime, those numbers are less available without contacting the state or a local secretary who are the ones who get notified (or are supposed to) of newbies.
 
umpire16 said:
The usual indicator is who took the new officials course (which would be going on about now). But with the ability to take it online anytime, those numbers are less available without contacting the state or a local secretary who are the ones who get notified (or are supposed to) of newbies.
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Yeah, I have no idea. Probably not good if I had to guess.
 
bb9 said:
Yeah, I have no idea. Probably not good if I had to guess.
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I know in baseball and softball last time I looked - all arguments about quality and experience aside - we are about even now in that the number onboarded is about equivalent to the number who left in the last year (although the total number is still down ALOT since 2020).
 
[Context: Team ‘A’ is trailing with under a minute to go, completes pass in-bounds and is in a clear situation where a spike is to be expected.]

B1 (opposing nose tackle) bullrushes A1 (center) into A2 (QB) as the ball is snapped. A2 stumbles and fumbles, regains possession as B1 is bearing down and making contact with A2. A2 throttles the ball in a forward motion into the ground.

No whistle is sounded. Live ball.

The ball, trotting forward on the ground and landing about the LOS, is recovered by the defense. The crew convenes, a penalty flag is then tossed. Intentional Grounding. Team A retains possession.

Did they get this right? I thought the provision was made recently that the QB cannot be flagged for intentional grounding if contact is made by a defender.
 
The Dock said:
[Context: Team ‘A’ is trailing with under a minute to go, completes pass in-bounds and is in a clear situation where a spike is to be expected.]

B1 (opposing nose tackle) bullrushes A1 (center) into A2 (QB) as the ball is snapped. A2 stumbles and fumbles, regains possession as B1 is bearing down and making contact with A2. A2 throttles the ball in a forward motion into the ground.

No whistle is sounded. Live ball.

The ball, trotting forward on the ground and landing about the LOS, is recovered by the defense. The crew convenes, a penalty flag is then tossed. Intentional Grounding. Team A retains possession.

Did they get this right? I thought the provision was made recently that the QB cannot be flagged for intentional grounding if contact is made by a defender.
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Contact by the defender means nothing in either instance. I’m gonna assume they had an obvious spike attempt but since he didn’t do it immediately (bad snap), once he regained possession and tried it again it becomes IG. Nothing the defenders do makes any difference.

Take the whistles out of it as well. They can come
Together, talk and decide. Good job by those guys.

It looks funny but I think they got it right.
 
The Dock said:
[Context: Team ‘A’ is trailing with under a minute to go, completes pass in-bounds and is in a clear situation where a spike is to be expected.]

B1 (opposing nose tackle) bullrushes A1 (center) into A2 (QB) as the ball is snapped. A2 stumbles and fumbles, regains possession as B1 is bearing down and making contact with A2. A2 throttles the ball in a forward motion into the ground.

No whistle is sounded. Live ball.

The ball, trotting forward on the ground and landing about the LOS, is recovered by the defense. The crew convenes, a penalty flag is then tossed. Intentional Grounding. Team A retains possession.

Did they get this right? I thought the provision was made recently that the QB cannot be flagged for intentional grounding if contact is made by a defender.
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What do you mean by "throttles" ?
 
I've twice listened to the official explanation of the rule changes, and regarding penalty enforcement, oh my, what a mess.
 
AllSports12 said:
Gotcha.... Next question......

Did the bull rush interrupt the snap?
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Trying to find replay of it. I’ll link it in as soon as I can find it.

My recollection on the bull rush is the exchange between center and QB was initiated, but not finished, when the center gets driven into the QB (ball is in QB’s hands but still under Center’s hiney.) It was freakishly close. The replay will do it justice.
 
The Dock said:
Trying to find replay of it. I’ll link it in as soon as I can find it.

My recollection on the bull rush is the exchange between center and QB was initiated, but not finished, when the center gets driven into the QB (ball is in QB’s hands but still under Center’s hiney.) It was freakishly close. The replay will do it justice.
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No need..... This is an illegal forward pass (Intentional Grounding)

- Because the snap was muffed, the exception granted to the passer to legally ground the ball expires.
- There should have been a whistle on the play because we still have a forward pass,
 
I think The Dock was saying that the ref crew may have not whistled the play for an incompletion due to a potential fumble as opposed to a spike (aka, forward pass), and then the craw came together and decided it was an incompletion, but IG due to the snap being muffed. I think the question here is the following - with the snap being muffed, there is no longer the ability to legally "spike" the ball to kill the clock ... but does that ruling conflict with the high school interpretation about contact by the defense with the QB eliminating intentional grounding calls.
 
Rush Limbaugh said:
Is it true that the offensive holding penalty is being changed? It is no longer from the spot of the foul...
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The short answer is:

It is from the previous spot, if it occurs behind the line of scrimmage. If it's downfield, it's still from the spot of the foul.

I will allow someone else to provide all of the details
 
This was posted elsewhere as a 'how well do you know the rulebook? You make the call. Answer will be posted later' by a ref. I'll post the text of their question, and their answer. I think their answer is actually wrong. If their answer is right, can someone explain the qualifier that makes their answer correct?

Their Question said:
The offense has the ball at the opponent’s 9 yard line.
The Qb rolls to the left and fires a pass into the endzone.
The Corner picks it off in the endzone and starts to return it out. The intended WR strips the ball from the corner while in
the endzone and the balls rolls forward out of bounds at the 3. During the attempted return a linebacker blocks an offensive lineman below the waist at the 9.

What do we have?
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Their Answer said:
Per high school rules a fumble that rolls forward returns
to the spot of the fumble (end of the run) and in this case
that is the endzone. The offense will accept the penalty on the return team and it will be enforced from the end of the run (endzone).

As a result, the intercepting team will have a penalty in
their own endzone, thus this will be a safety.

If there had not been a penalty on the return, we would
have a touchback.
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The part that I think they have wrong on this is it being a safety. Their original question said the penalty occurred outside of the endzone, on the 9-yard line. Is the basic spot for penalty enforcement not the 20 yard-line in this situation?

If the penalty occurred in the end zone, it'd be a safety, yeah?
 
Football has so many variables on just one live ball play, like the example above. Those are absolutely the types of plays that should’ve part of a pregame, along with basic formation penalties.
 
I'm going with 10-4-6
The basic spot is the 20-yard line for fouls by either team when the opponent of the team in possession at the time of the foul is responsible for forcing the ball across the goal line of the team in possession, and the related run ends in the end zone and is followed by a loose ball, regardless of where the loose ball becomes dead.

The penalty for the illegal block below the waist (9-3-2) is enforced from the B20, half the distance to the goal. 1st and 10 for B at the B10.
 
The Dock said:
This was posted elsewhere as a 'how well do you know the rulebook? You make the call. Answer will be posted later' by a ref. I'll post the text of their question, and their answer. I think their answer is actually wrong. If their answer is right, can someone explain the qualifier that makes their answer correct?





The part that I think they have wrong on this is it being a safety. Their original question said the penalty occurred outside of the endzone, on the 9-yard line. Is the basic spot for penalty enforcement not the 20 yard-line in this situation?

If the penalty occurred in the end zone, it'd be a safety, yeah?
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The result of the play is 1st & 10 on the 3 yard line for the defensive team. It is not a high school rule that the ball be returned to the spot of the fumble.

The basic spot for this penalty enforcement is the 20 yard line. (Rule 10.4.6) The penalty would be half the distance to the goalline. That will be declined and the ball will be spotted on the 3.

Case Book 10.4.6 Situation B is the same scenario, except the foul is a clip.
 
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The NFHS did a poor job with the rule change regarding penalty enforcement. As a result there is conflict between the the Rule Book and the Case Book.

Yesterday they began taking steps to try to rectify the issues created by striking Rule 10-5-2 from the Rule Book....

Let's refrain for the time being from hashing over situations regarding penalty enforcements. (a simple review of the play presented a few days ago is proof that confusion exists as there are different rulings being presented) Once we get the final word(s) from the NFHS ans/or Bruce/Beau, then we can get correct answers out to these situations.

It should only be a couple of days.

Thanks.....
 
AllSports12 said:
The NFHS did a poor job with the rule change regarding penalty enforcement. As a result there is conflict between the the Rule Book and the Case Book.

Yesterday they began taking steps to try to rectify the issues created by striking Rule 10-5-2 from the Rule Book....

Let's refrain for the time being from hashing over situations regarding penalty enforcements. (a simple review of the play presented a few days ago is proof that confusion exists as there are different rulings being presented) Once we get the final word(s) from the NFHS ans/or Bruce/Beau, then we can get correct answers out to these situations.

It should only be a couple of days.

Thanks.....
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That eliminates a contradiction, but is is still an impossible mess.
 
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