SL expansion

BlackandGold

#BleedBlack&Gold
According to reports, the SL is interested in expanding again and 4 schools from the GCC have applied: Medina, Brunswick, Strongsville, and Solon. It is also rumored Brush (currently in the WRC) has applied, but not confirmed. Can anyone provide any updates for proposed division alignments or confirm the applications? Also, how may this affect other conference affiliations in Northeast Ohio?

 
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Yappi

Go Buckeyes
I'm wondering if a couple schools have expressed their desire to leave the conference and this is a way to fill those openings without interruption.

Two 8 team divisions makes alot of sense. Anything more than that limits scheduling opportunities and also may increase drive time. Since the SL is at 15 teams right now, not sure why they would want more than 1 school to join. That is why I think a couple might be on the way out. I suspect it might be the smaller schools looking for greener grass.
 

Bad Blake

Member
I’d hate to see those teams leave the GCC. That’s a nice big public school conference. That would make things tough on Mentor too. Who would replace Brush in the WRC? West Geauga should get an enrollment bump when they absorb Newbury next year so they would make the most sense although they would still be about half the size of Riverside. Lakeside would make some sense based on enrollment and geographically but I don’t know if they could compete in any sport.
 
Perry could be a consideration, they already play Riverside, Madison and Chardon. I know they are division four but clearly they more than handle themselves quite well. If not, maybe Geneva could be brought back in the fold.
 

BlackandGold

#BleedBlack&Gold
IMO, I don't think any CVC school would be interested in the WRC. Those mentioned (Geneva, West G, Perry) either have enrollment or program-building advantages in the CVC. Why play a meat-grinder schedule of larger schools when you don't have to? Lakeside would benefit the most based on enrollment, however they would struggle to compete in most sports AND the western schools in the WRC (Mayfield, North, South) do not want to commute to Ashtabula. That's why the were left out during the original formation.
 
give it five to seven years and Mentor enrollment will be similar to Riverside, North and South. Their enrollment is dropping every year and will likely continue. By then they may be invited into some sort of Lake County plus Chardon configuration.
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
give it five to seven years and Mentor enrollment will be similar to Riverside, North and South. Their enrollment is dropping every year and will likely continue. By then they may be invited into some sort of Lake County plus Chardon configuration.
Enrollment is dropping but this is a little much ..
 
According to reports, the SL is interested in expanding again and 4 schools from the GCC have applied: Medina, Brunswick, Strongsville, and Solon. It is also rumored Brush (currently in the WRC) has applied, but not confirmed. Can anyone provide any updates for proposed division alignments or confirm the applications? Also, how may this affect other conference affiliations in Northeast Ohio?

For Suburban League expansion, it all depends on what the league wants to do.

The simplest option is to simply accept Medina into the SL-National effective 2021, when Cuyahoga Falls drops to the American.

One would have to think that Brunswick and Strongsville would ideally want to go together wherever they end up, so if they are accepted into the SL, it's most likely along with Medina to create an 18-team league. Then there would be a couple options: Nordonia could drop along with Falls to the American to create 2 9-team divisions, taking up weeks 2-10 with one team not playing within the division each of those weeks (allowing for a crossover or non-league game).

The most likely scenario with the addition of these three, though, would be three six-team divisions (rigid instead of fluid, unlike the old NOC which changed every 2 years). Then you could still do 2 crossovers and 3 nonleague games (or 5 nonleague games).
Example of divisional layout:
A - Brunswick, Strongsville, Medina, Wadsworth, Hudson, Stow
B - Aurora, North Royalton, Brecksville, Nordonia, Twinsburg, Cuyahoga Falls
C - Kent, Tallmadge, Revere, Copley, Highland, Barberton

Brush fits size-wise, but it'd be a hike for some of the southern schools.

And finally, I have a better chance of dating the current Miss America than Solon does of EVER getting an invite to the Suburban League.
 

bmss17

Member
For Suburban League expansion, it all depends on what the league wants to do.

The simplest option is to simply accept Medina into the SL-National effective 2021, when Cuyahoga Falls drops to the American.

One would have to think that Brunswick and Strongsville would ideally want to go together wherever they end up, so if they are accepted into the SL, it's most likely along with Medina to create an 18-team league. Then there would be a couple options: Nordonia could drop along with Falls to the American to create 2 9-team divisions, taking up weeks 2-10 with one team not playing within the division each of those weeks (allowing for a crossover or non-league game).

The most likely scenario with the addition of these three, though, would be three six-team divisions (rigid instead of fluid, unlike the old NOC which changed every 2 years). Then you could still do 2 crossovers and 3 nonleague games (or 5 nonleague games).
Example of divisional layout:
A - Brunswick, Strongsville, Medina, Wadsworth, Hudson, Stow
B - Aurora, North Royalton, Brecksville, Nordonia, Twinsburg, Cuyahoga Falls
C - Kent, Tallmadge, Revere, Copley, Highland, Barberton

Brush fits size-wise, but it'd be a hike for some of the southern schools.

And finally, I have a better chance of dating the current Miss America than Solon does of EVER getting an invite to the Suburban League.
Again, what makes you say that about Solon? From what I heard, there were two main schools anti-Solon...I have to think they would get a nod over Medina.
 

PGEMF

Member
I’d hate to see those teams leave the GCC. That’s a nice big public school conference. That would make things tough on Mentor too. Who would replace Brush in the WRC? West Geauga should get an enrollment bump when they absorb Newbury next year so they would make the most sense although they would still be about half the size of Riverside. Lakeside would make some sense based on enrollment and geographically but I don’t know if they could compete in any sport.
Shaker and Elyria have already left the GCC
 
Again, what makes you say that about Solon? From what I heard, there were two main schools anti-Solon...I have to think they would get a nod over Medina.
What two schools are anti-Solon? They’d be the best fit of the four schools mentioned. I don’t count Brush, as they don’t fit at all geographically.
 

BlackandGold

#BleedBlack&Gold
Who would replace Brush in the WRC? West Geauga should get an enrollment bump when they absorb Newbury next year so they would make the most sense although they would still be about half the size of Riverside. Lakeside would make some sense based on enrollment and geographically but I don’t know if they could compete in any sport.
West Geauga will get a slight enrollment bump absorbing Newbury. IF it gives them the enrollment numbers similar to Kenston and Chardon, then I would agree they may consider the WRC to improve travel. Otherwise, I don't think they would consider if they would be the largest in the CVC, but the smallest in the WRC. Actually, I could see Aurora expressing interest even if they would be the smallest school. Their enrollment is increasing, they have strong athletic programs that would rival the best of the WRC, and it would be a little less travel for them than the SL (rival Kenston within 10 minutes away). Lakeside was intentionally left out when the conference reformed in 2015 because Mayfield, South, and North do not want to commute to Ashtabula on a regular basis. You're correct with the inability to compete. The CVC offers similar struggling athletic programs, like Harvey and Edgewood that Lakeside can compete with.
 
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bmss17

Member
What two schools are anti-Solon? They’d be the best fit of the four schools mentioned. I don’t count Brush, as they don’t fit at all geographically.
Nordonia & Stow in the past have tried to block Solon from getting in the SL; that’s why I’m very curious, why now for the SL choosing to expand if they don’t want Solon? I just can’t see it being Medina; with the exception of Wadsworth, proximity would seem to favor Solon, and absolutely enrollment as well. Medina is a place where it seems its athletic department is really starting to figure it out, and if that happens they could become the next Mentor...they won’t be nearly as dominant in football, but they would run the SL in football and basketball for a long time coming, which I would think would have to be difficult to stomach for those other SLA schools, given the enrollment disparity.
 

bmss17

Member
I'm wondering if a couple schools have expressed their desire to leave the conference and this is a way to fill those openings without interruption.

Two 8 team divisions makes alot of sense. Anything more than that limits scheduling opportunities and also may increase drive time. Since the SL is at 15 teams right now, not sure why they would want more than 1 school to join. That is why I think a couple might be on the way out. I suspect it might be the smaller schools looking for greener grass.
Who do you see potentially leaving, and where to Yappi?
 

BlackandGold

#BleedBlack&Gold
I'm wondering if a couple schools have expressed their desire to leave the conference and this is a way to fill those openings without interruption.

Two 8 team divisions makes alot of sense. Anything more than that limits scheduling opportunities and also may increase drive time. Since the SL is at 15 teams right now, not sure why they would want more than 1 school to join. That is why I think a couple might be on the way out. I suspect it might be the smaller schools looking for greener grass.
I’ve read hearsay on here that Revere is looking at a Cleveland-based conference. My guess would be the GLC. I haven’t seen any confirmation of this reported.
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
Who do you see potentially leaving, and where to Yappi?
This is my own speculation and haven't heard this from anyone connected...

I could see Tallmadge moving to wherever the Portage Trail Metro schools go to. They are closer in distance and closer in size to Tallmadge. With Tallmadge's football decline, there won't be as much resistance to them joining up with those schools. It wouldn't surprise me if Kent Roosevelt followed along.
 
That
This is my own speculation and haven't heard this from anyone connected...

I could see Tallmadge moving to wherever the Portage Trail Metro schools go to. They are closer in distance and closer in size to Tallmadge. With Tallmadge's football decline, there won't be as much resistance to them joining up with those schools. It wouldn't surprise me if Kent Roosevelt followed along.
I never thought of that. If Tallmadge were to pull the trigger a lot of sense geographically. As far as Roosevelt, wonder if they'd be interested in rejoining the Metro Schools in their new conference, or if the others would welcome them back. Didn't they leave there on bad terms or something?
 
Nordonia & Stow in the past have tried to block Solon from getting in the SL; that’s why I’m very curious, why now for the SL choosing to expand if they don’t want Solon? I just can’t see it being Medina; with the exception of Wadsworth, proximity would seem to favor Solon, and absolutely enrollment as well. Medina is a place where it seems its athletic department is really starting to figure it out, and if that happens they could become the next Mentor...they won’t be nearly as dominant in football, but they would run the SL in football and basketball for a long time coming, which I would think would have to be difficult to stomach for those other SLA schools, given the enrollment disparity.
That’s surprising since those two schools would compete well against Solon, especially Stow. Solon would be a great add and make the conference more competitive. Medina is way to big enrollment wise. They’d dominate some sports only because they’d be a big fish in a small pond.
 

SVillegrad

Well-known member
This is just speculation, but going off what I've been hearing and some of what has been talked about here, I think what is being figured out is whether a third division could be created, that would also help out the existing schools.

I'll put it on here, but there may be legs to something like:

Suburban National
1. Medina
2. Strongsville
3. Brunswick
4. Solon
5. Stow
6. Hudson
7. Wadsworth
8. Barberton

While Stow may have been anti-Solon in the past, they have played them in football the past few years so they can't be that against it. It finds a landing spot for four of the GCC teams. Also, don't think Hudson would be against it as they have played (in football) Strongsville, Solon and I believe Brunswick in OOC recently. Medina and Wadsworth play every year. Barberton may be the head scratcher, but it's a geographical rival to Wadsworth and a school that has a long history in basketball and a football program that seems on the upswing and can handle playing bigger schools; plus, they are kind of the red-headed step child of the SL since they were originally booted then let back in.

Suburban American
1. North Royalton
2. Brecksville
3. Nordonia (anti-Solon but won't have to play them)
4. Twinsburg
5. Revere
6. Aurora
7. Copley
8. Highland

Solid D2/D3 league with a nice mix of rivalries/proximity

Suburban Metro (this going off Yappi's speculation)
1. Cuyahoga Falls
2. Tallmadge
3. Kent

Those are the three remaining SL schools. I can see an pretty easy case where five could join that and create a geographical fit:

4. Ravenna
5. Streetsboro
6/7/8 ... take the pick from the rest of the PTC Metro (the not chosen ones can move down to the PTC Trail ... and then just call it the PTC.) . ... Maybe even CVCA.
 

BlackandGold

#BleedBlack&Gold
This is just speculation, but going off what I've been hearing and some of what has been talked about here, I think what is being figured out is whether a third division could be created, that would also help out the existing schools.

I'll put it on here, but there may be legs to something like:

Suburban National
1. Medina
2. Strongsville
3. Brunswick
4. Solon
5. Stow
6. Hudson
7. Wadsworth
8. Barberton

While Stow may have been anti-Solon in the past, they have played them in football the past few years so they can't be that against it. It finds a landing spot for four of the GCC teams. Also, don't think Hudson would be against it as they have played (in football) Strongsville, Solon and I believe Brunswick in OOC recently. Medina and Wadsworth play every year. Barberton may be the head scratcher, but it's a geographical rival to Wadsworth and a school that has a long history in basketball and a football program that seems on the upswing and can handle playing bigger schools; plus, they are kind of the red-headed step child of the SL since they were originally booted then let back in.

Suburban American
1. North Royalton
2. Brecksville
3. Nordonia (anti-Solon but won't have to play them)
4. Twinsburg
5. Revere
6. Aurora
7. Copley
8. Highland

Solid D2/D3 league with a nice mix of rivalries/proximity

Suburban Metro (this going off Yappi's speculation)
1. Cuyahoga Falls
2. Tallmadge
3. Kent

Those are the three remaining SL schools. I can see an pretty easy case where five could join that and create a geographical fit:

4. Ravenna
5. Streetsboro
6/7/8 ... take the pick from the rest of the PTC Metro (the not chosen ones can move down to the PTC Trail ... and then just call it the PTC.) . ... Maybe even CVCA.
I think this idea is great, but I just can't see the SL allowing all three BIGGER schools to join. There is a big enrollment gap between those three and the rest of the SL. If needed, I can see them adding Strongsville as an aging community.

If the SL is really trying to replicate the CVC setup, they really don't have to add any other schools beyond the PTC Metro minus Field (the smallest school):

NATIONAL
Barberton
Brecksville
Hudson
Nordonia
North Royalton
Stow
Twinsburg
Wadsworth

AMERICAN
Aurora
Copley
Cuyahoga Falls
Highland
Kent Roosevelt
Revere
Tallmadge

METRO
Cloverleaf
Coventry
Norton
Ravenna
Springfield
Streetsboro
Woodridge

The American and Metro divisions would play one cross-over game for football. Even if the SL is losing 1-2 schools, they could still keep this alignment by including Field AND adding Solon OR Strongsville to the National and bumping down Nordonia to the American. Norton and Cloverleaf as the largest schools in the Metro could bump up to the American. Tallmadge as the smallest school in the American could drop down to the Metro.
 
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bmss17

Member
I think this idea is great, but I just can't see the SL allowing all three BIGGER schools to join. There is a big enrollment gap between those three and the rest of the SL. If needed, I can see them adding Strongsville as an aging community.

If the SL is really trying to replicate the CVC setup, they really don't have to add any other schools beyond the PTC Metro minus Field (the smallest school):

NATIONAL
Barberton
Brecksville
Hudson
Nordonia
North Royalton
Stow
Twinsburg
Wadsworth

AMERICAN
Aurora
Copley
Cuyahoga Falls
Highland
Kent Roosevelt
Revere
Tallmadge

METRO
Cloverleaf
Coventry
Norton
Ravenna
Springfield
Streetsboro
Woodridge

The American and Metro divisions would play one cross-over game for football. Even if the SL is losing 1-2 schools, they could still keep this alignment by including Field AND adding Solon OR Strongsville to the National and bumping down Nordonia to the American. Norton and Cloverleaf as the largest schools in the Metro could bump up to the American. Tallmadge as the smallest school in the American could drop down to the Metro.
This is really interesting, and makes a lot of sense on a lot of levels. I can’t see them moving Barberton up, seeing as they just moved Falls down; I feel they would have made those moves simultaneously. I also can’t see them excluding Field from the Metro, considering the entire just severed ties with the PTC. If the County Division was still in tact I could see Field maybe choosing that, but I can’t see the other seven schools giving them the boot.

But those 8 Metro schools to the SL makes a lot of sense. The reason I see that as a possibility is Keith Walker, the SL commissioner. He’s far and away the best commissioner in NEO, and fits what those schools were looking for: a third party commissioner and improved officiating. Keith takes so much pride in assigning officials, those schools would see a massive improvement. The officiating in the PTC (across all sports) was nothing short of disastrous most of the time.

I can see this three division setup working out in this sense, I just think it makes sense to have 8 teams per division, and each group separates as its own entities in most sports.
 

Mike Gully

Member
I just think that the more schools you add to the equation the more volatile things will get. Everyone forgets the current landscape of conferences was built on schools wanting to get away from present situations. I don’t think everyone that left those old situations will be ready to saddle back up after 5 years apart.
 
Honestly, as much as a clusterfudge as it would be, I can see the Suburban League adding a third tier. Wherever Medina goes, Brunswick will follow IMO. Can't see Solon getting turned down for the Suburban League. They make a lot of sense geographically, and if you put them in a division with, say, Twinsburg, Nordonia, Hudson, Aurora, etc., it cuts down majorly on travel. Even though it would push the conference past 16 and create problems, that may very well be their best bet unless something better comes along.

The reality of the situation is that the GCC is not going to last long as a league. Shaker and Elyria were the two dominoes to fall, and they'll keep falling from there.

The way I see things working out is:

Suburban Red (Bigger schools) Medina, Brunswick, Wadsworth, Stow, Brecksville, North Royalton

Suburban White (Mid-size schools) Solon, Hudson, Twinsburg, Kent Roosevelt, Aurora, Nordonia

Suburban Blue (Smaller schools) Medina Highland, Barberton, Tallmadge, Revere (if both stay), Copley, Cuyahoga Falls

And I know this idea sounds kinda far-fetched but hear me out. I imagine something like three tiers of six teams, with two conference crossovers to make it seven conference games (and saving the three non-conference games as well) in total.

And with a three team setup, for instance, each division plays the teams within it, plus a crossover with each school in the other one.
Ex. Solon plays Stow in Red, Revere in Blue, Cuyahoga Falls plays Wadsworth in Red, Kent Roosevelt in White, etc.

But should Tallmadge and Revere decide to leave, the Suburban COULD look like this:

American Division: Aurora, Barberton, Kent Roosevelt, Copley, Cuyahoga Falls, Nordonia, Twinsburg

National Division: Medina, Brunswick, Wadsworth, Stow, Brecksville, North Royalton, Solon, Hudson

Again, just speculating and grasping at straws here. I doubt this is how things will actually shake down.
 
Just admit Solon and be done with it. Let those larger schools figure it out amongst themselves. The SL is a solid league with some great rivalries. Adding a division with crossover games muddies that up. Some of these schools recently left such an arrangement because it didn’t work for them.
 

FirestoneFan

Well-known member
Field should be in the PCL or whatever they end up. Springfield as well. Less travel and rivalries. Too bad Ellet is stuck in the City Series because they would be a great addition. Not Suburban League but where teams maybe should be.
 
Just admit Solon and be done with it. Let those larger schools figure it out amongst themselves. The SL is a solid league with some great rivalries. Adding a division with crossover games muddies that up. Some of these schools recently left such an arrangement because it didn’t work for them.
Admitting Solon, IMHO, would be a huge mistake for the SL. In addition to being the northernmost geographically, they would be bigger than all but one school (Stow) and they have a track record in recent decades of having a hand in destroying every league they've been in. They played a major in the breakup of the original CVC in '96 (the league did continue, but in '96, 6 of the 8 were brand new members). A big reason that the WRC merged with the Pioneer to form the NOC was that a lot of the WRC schools wanted to not play Solon. Solon was a BIG reason Nordonia left the NOC for the SL in 2011, and then the 7 other schools following suit in 2015 (though other schools can be blamed for the latter). And now the GCC is on the verge of breaking up.
 
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