Running Clock in basketball

Smarty2022 said:
Keep the Running Clock! It’s been Great!
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Agreed, it has more benefits than it does downside. I understand wanting the end of the bench to get real minutes, but if the game is out of hand that's not doing anybody any good. Both teams just want the game to be over at that point. It's been good this season and we've been on the losing end of a running clock
 
thavoice said:
GoOd Ole pay to play. That's what most of these so called travel baseball teams are about. First attribute? Are you willing to pay a few grand this summer to travel an for your kid to play ball all over the place ?
Yes? You made the team
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Agreed. Saying you play AAU basketball isn't even really a separator any more. Any dad or coach looking to feature their own kid can start an "aau program". See it all the time. It's ridiculous how many bad teams travel the country to play with 0 chance of getting exposure playing in bad pools and getting blown out.
 
D4fan said:
If your an AAU program and are not full of talented players you have not done your job screening and recruiting. Many AAU teams are by invitation (recruiting) only. Some, such as Dayton Metro will have mandatory tryouts. The tryouts may have 30 -40 kids and you only have 3 remaining spots that need filled, or potentially no spots and the tryout is just a formality.

I think the club basketball, non card carrying form that plays tournaments similar to AAU may be what your thinking about. Those are indeed what I would term pay to play. Good AAU programs have sponsors who defray the real cost of travel and uniforms etc. Some kids, especially inner city programs, may pay zero for the opportunity to travel and compete. These are good players, selected for their talent and character.
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Yes, not ever AAU / club ball is created the same, but unfortunately if it's outside school ball, it's termed AAU. Now we can discuss the pitfalls of the "good" AAU programs and sponsors and defraying costs, that's another discussion altogether. But let's be real, youth sports has turned into it's own industry where multi-million dollar complexes are now built to house tournaments upon tournaments. Have we made better basketball players? Debatable.
 
Smalls said:
Not a fan of a running clock. Let the kids at the end of the bench break a sweat. I have seen two foul shots take 1:30+ off the clock. Do that 3-4 times in a quarter and the game is over.
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No you haven't.
 
*67 said:
No you haven't.
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I bet so.
-From the time the foul is called.
-Relayed to scorers table..
Everyone to the line.
-Subs after 1 shot (coaches seem to feel the need to sub at every free throw) .
-Obligatory high five after the first FT.
-Sub for the shooter if he makes it


And at this point when it's this fae gone everyone is moving slower like football officials setting the ball in a running clock.


I did see a good min half off the clock the other night.
 
thavoice said:
I bet so.
-From the time the foul is called.
-Relayed to scorers table..
Everyone to the line.
-Subs after 1 shot (coaches seem to feel the need to sub at every free throw) .
-Obligatory high five after the first FT.
-Sub for the shooter if he makes it


And at this point when it's this fae gone everyone is moving slower like football officials setting the ball in a running clock.


I did see a good min half off the clock the other night.
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I can believe this in a running clock situation.
 
thavoice said:
I bet so.
-From the time the foul is called.
-Relayed to scorers table..
Everyone to the line.
-Subs after 1 shot (coaches seem to feel the need to sub at every free throw) .
-Obligatory high five after the first FT.
-Sub for the shooter if he makes it


And at this point when it's this fae gone everyone is moving slower like football officials setting the ball in a running clock.


I did see a good min half off the clock the other night.
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I fully believe this. Running clock is a terrible idea. Heck I'd say if you're for the running clock, then just cut to the chase like baseball softball and put a hard stop to the game. Nothing more demeaning than giving up that 10th run and just walking off the field, eh?
 
Based on some of the box scores coming in from last nights round of sectional semi-finals for girls - the running clock is VERY needed. No reason to have full games with scores where one team is in the 60/70/80s and the other is in the teens. Get those games to 0.00 as quickly as possible.
 
CasualFan24 said:
Based on some of the box scores coming in from last nights round of sectional semi-finals for girls - the running clock is VERY needed. No reason to have full games with scores where one team is in the 60/70/80s and the other is in the teens. Get those games to 0.00 as quickly as possible.
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I will definitely concede on tournament games moving to a running clock. At this point, you are not working in new kids. I still think it’s unnecessary during the regular season
 
CasualFan24 said:
Based on some of the box scores coming in from last nights round of sectional semi-finals for girls - the running clock is VERY needed. No reason to have full games with scores where one team is in the 60/70/80s and the other is in the teens. Get those games to 0.00 as quickly as possible.
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Exactly
 
thavoice said:
I bet so.
-From the time the foul is called.
-Relayed to scorers table..
Everyone to the line.
-Subs after 1 shot (coaches seem to feel the need to sub at every free throw) .
-Obligatory high five after the first FT.
-Sub for the shooter if he makes it


And at this point when it's this fae gone everyone is moving slower like football officials setting the ball in a running clock.


I did see a good min half off the clock the other night.
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Both Coaches can call Time Out before the FTs. Can Sub, draw up a play for the 12th man on the Team whatever they want. Obligatory high 5 is on the Players. Why and the hell am I gonna high 5 you after you make a FT when we losing by 40?
 
There is only one boys team in my area that has been involved in running clock games due to lack of talent. There is need for the running clock in girls games but not so much in boys - although you have to have the same rules for both. The biggest complaint I hear is that it doesn't allow for your backup players to get game experience. I don't believe you get game experience by playing minutes against bad teams. Experience is obtained by playing meaningful minutes in tough situations. Neither team gains by playing time in blowouts.
 
Dragon72 said:
There is only one boys team in my area that has been involved in running clock games due to lack of talent. There is need for the running clock in girls games but not so much in boys - although you have to have the same rules for both. The biggest complaint I hear is that it doesn't allow for your backup players to get game experience. I don't believe you get game experience by playing minutes against bad teams. Experience is obtained by playing meaningful minutes in tough situations. Neither team gains by playing time in blowouts.
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It’s not necessarily about the developing players. It’s about the players that have zero future playing basketball who enjoy basketball. They practice all season knowing they get to play 5-8 minutes every 4th game. I ran the numbers earlier in this thread. We end up saving 12-18 minutes of real time. Are we really in that big of a hurry?
 
Knight27 said:
It’s not necessarily about the developing players. It’s about the players that have zero future playing basketball who enjoy basketball. They practice all season knowing they get to play 5-8 minutes every 4th game. I ran the numbers earlier in this thread. We end up saving 12-18 minutes of real time. Are we really in that big of a hurry?
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Yea, yes we are.

I watched a game that was 30-3 at the end of the 1st quarter last night, and that 3 was luckily scored with a desperate shot thrown up with 24 seconds left. It was 24-0 just 3 minutes into the game when the winning team started subbing out their starters. That game had an incredible disparity in skill level between the two teams and needed to be ended. Bench players got plenty of PT, but like it's been pointed out, how beneficial was that PT against such low level competition?
 
Taft won last night 87-15. Without running clock they would have won 130-20. Same story with Woodward or Purcell Marion girls. Tempers flare in these situations because some coaches are morons and clearly want to embarrass teams for whatever reasons. Running clock isnt going anywhere.
 
After looking at some of the first round tournament scores, the running clock has been used quite a bit in the girls tournament the last week.

For me, I do not like the running clock. I feel every second of every minute should be used for playing time for the kids. No one is going to remember if you lost by 20 or 40 or even 60, it's just a number. Now any coach that is pressing when up by more than 20 needs to be questioned by the AD, the superintendent and the OHSAA. There are ways to play these games without humiliating the players.

One thing I'll also add, top 4 seeds in each district get double byes. Do not allow these slaughters to occur. Have play in games where the lower seeded teams play each other, you stay away from the 1 seed vs. 13 seed that way. For some reason some coaches of #1 seeds don't like to take the bye, they want to pound someone by 50 the first game. Just take that option away.
 
Knight27 said:
It’s not necessarily about the developing players. It’s about the players that have zero future playing basketball who enjoy basketball. They practice all season knowing they get to play 5-8 minutes every 4th game. I ran the numbers earlier in this thread. We end up saving 12-18 minutes of real time. Are we really in that big of a hurry?
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I agree, same as with football, why are we in such a hurry to end the game? Give the kids as much playing time as we can. Most girls and boys high school games last an hour and a half tops, no commercial breaks or media timeouts.
 
CasualFan24 said:
Here's the thing about that statement - in my experience, there is still a lot of fouling in those blowout games. Add to the fact that we're talking about putting in less talented kids as substitutes because of the score disparity, less talent usually leads to even more fouling.....

Also allow me to play devil's advocate - if you were a parent of one of the 8 point career scorers you are referring to, would it not infuriate you if your kid finally got in the game and got hammered on a shot and didn't get a foul call because it was near the end of the game and the officials throttled down their whistles? A running clock allows the officials to officiate the game as they see it, there is no thought in the back on their mind that "I don't want to call a foul here because it'll stop the clock"....If the clock is already running, the official is theoretically MORE LIKELY to call the fouls that should be called!
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I would certainly hope most officials call the game as they see it regardless of score and time. That's the foundation. Why are we in such a hurry?
 
14Red said:
After looking at some of the first round tournament scores, the running clock has been used quite a bit in the girls tournament the last week.

For me, I do not like the running clock. I feel every second of every minute should be used for playing time for the kids. No one is going to remember if you lost by 20 or 40 or even 60, it's just a number. Now any coach that is pressing when up by more than 20 needs to be questioned by the AD, the superintendent and the OHSAA. There are ways to play these games without humiliating the players.

One thing I'll also add, top 4 seeds in each district get double byes. Do not allow these slaughters to occur. Have play in games where the lower seeded teams play each other, you stay away from the 1 seed vs. 13 seed that way. For some reason some coaches of #1 seeds don't like to take the bye, they want to pound someone by 50 the first game. Just take that option away.
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Agree--was at Princeton last Saturday where #1 seed Woodward led #19 Bethel-Tate 57-19 at halftime and continued to press deep into the 4th quarter as they pulled out their top 7-8 players by 3:00 left in the 4th quarter with the running clock and eventually winning 84-35. Woodward did the same thing last year to Bethel-Tate in the tourney in a 75-23 victory at Mason----anyone who knows coaching etiquette would drop back to playing 1/2 court MTM or even a 2-3 zone in both those cases by early in the 3rd quarter---the game is decided long before the running clock begins. At some point a better team will pay them back.
 
The running clock is in place because teams evidently cannot manage/kill off games in a fashion that is viewed as respectable. As a result, the powers that be have decided to shrink the length of playing action in order to get the games done with.
 
bucksman said:
The running clock is in place because teams evidently cannot manage/kill off games in a fashion that is viewed as respectable. As a result, the powers that be have decided to shrink the length of playing action in order to get the games done with.
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I agree, but would love to hear from the crowd that says a shot clock isn't needed because it doesn't happen enough to warrant the rule.

Seems the same applies here. It really doesn't happen with great regularity, and a better solution would be to punish the coach, not the kids missing out on playing time.

Both issues (stalling and running up a score) have the coach at the center of the issue.
 
OnTheLine85 said:
I agree, but would love to hear from the crowd that says a shot clock isn't needed because it doesn't happen enough to warrant the rule.

Seems the same applies here. It really doesn't happen with great regularity, and a better solution would be to punish the coach, not the kids missing out on playing time.

Both issues (stalling and running up a score) have the coach at the center of the issue.
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Someone has to question the Coach not Playing his Subs up or down by 40. The length of the Game is the same regardless of Running Clock or not. The Coaches pressing while winning by 30-40 points are a joke. The Coaches losing by 30-40 and say they can’t play their Subs are the same joke.
 
OnTheLine85 said:
I agree, but would love to hear from the crowd that says a shot clock isn't needed because it doesn't happen enough to warrant the rule.

Seems the same applies here. It really doesn't happen with great regularity, and a better solution would be to punish the coach, not the kids missing out on playing time.

Both issues (stalling and running up a score) have the coach at the center of the issue.
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The running clock rule comes into play far more often than a true stalling situation does.
 
I think it's hypocritical to be opposed to the running clock - and in the same breath, criticize coaches for "running up the score". So basically what you're saying is - you want to play the full game with stoppages but you want one team to stop playing/play hard.

So just to be clear, we don't want to take minutes and seconds away from players on the losing team, but we want to ask the players on the winning team to not play hard or to their fullest potential? I don't see this as being fair either.

Also - MOST of the time, in these blowout situations, the team that is winning switches to a motion offense where they pass and cut and throw the ball around for minutes at a time. I ask, how is this making anyone better on either team? Both teams at this point, are "going through the motions." If a player goes to practice and just "goes through the motions" are they getting better? Most people would say no, that you need to practice hard to get better. If that's the case, then why are we ok with it happening in games?

People also keep bringing up and comparing to football - and the football model is something OHSAA should take a look at for basketball (but we know they won't because the want the $$$) to solve these blowout issues. Not every team makes to tournament in football - it should be the same for basketball. Do we really need 38 seeds in a girls basketball region? We all have a better chance of winning the lottery than the 38 seed winning a State Championship.

The other option, which I think actually makes the most sense for EVERYONE (including OHSAA) would be to take the college basketball post season format. Have 2 tournaments - just like the NCAA Championship bracket, and the NIT. The parameters would need to be discussed and set for what the qualifications would be to make the championship bracket, then every other school that doesn't qualify goes into the NIT tournament. Same number of games would be played in total - and you have more competitive games throughout each tournament. OHSAA still gets all their money....all the teams get a chance to play more games, and those games would be closer and more meaningful. Just makes too much sense tbh...
 
CasualFan24 said:
I think it's hypocritical to be opposed to the running clock - and in the same breath, criticize coaches for "running up the score". So basically what you're saying is - you want to play the full game with stoppages but you want one team to stop playing/play hard.

So just to be clear, we don't want to take minutes and seconds away from players on the losing team, but we want to ask the players on the winning team to not play hard or to their fullest potential? I don't see this as being fair either.

Also - MOST of the time, in these blowout situations, the team that is winning switches to a motion offense where they pass and cut and throw the ball around for minutes at a time. I ask, how is this making anyone better on either team? Both teams at this point, are "going through the motions." If a player goes to practice and just "goes through the motions" are they getting better? Most people would say no, that you need to practice hard to get better. If that's the case, then why are we ok with it happening in games?
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I think what most people really want is to see the Winning team be working on something when they are up 30 40 50 points. By the time you are up that much you have likely proven you are very good at the fast break or the drive and dime. So try something else. Defensively, fans find it unnecessary to body someone up 60 feet from the basket when you are up that much.
 
OnTheLine85 said:
I agree, but would love to hear from the crowd that says a shot clock isn't needed because it doesn't happen enough to warrant the rule.

Seems the same applies here. It really doesn't happen with great regularity, and a better solution would be to punish the coach, not the kids missing out on playing time.

Both issues (stalling and running up a score) have the coach at the center of the issue.
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I wouldn't say the shot clock isn't a good idea because it doesn't happen enough, my resistance to the shot clock is because you have to find yet another person to put at the scorers table, and someone who actually has to know what the heck is going on. Also, what's the rule if the shot clock malfunctions? I just think for the pain that it comes with, it's simply not worth it.
 
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