No coach would do that. Like I said, many losing coaches are still playing their starters down 30 with 3 minutes left. And some winning coaches. The reserves on both teams should play most of the 4th quarter. Same thing happens in football. Sad for the hard working players who don’t get into a blowout game. Maybe 1 small reason numbers are down ?
Running Clock in basketball
- Thread starter Lancermania
- Start date
Talk some sense
Active member
Sorry there were delays earlier. You make them them sound like they were major not normal. Sorry you didn't get home until 10:30. Hopefully you slept deeper than normal, or got to sleep in, after such a late arrival.
Talk some sense
Active member
Even without responding point by point when I could better spend my time, I'm glad you found a kindred soul in 1 time. Enjoy the mutual admiration and echo chamber.
10th comment ever from an obvious idiot. don't waste a single breath going forward. lol
Talk some sense
Active member
Love to see your stats. I'm against the running clock by the way and actually have no idea where you stand. Just like calling out "facts" presented as rationale or backup to an opinion. Thanks.
Talk some sense
Active member
So it seems you're seriously doubting that the #8 player didn't do the same amount of work. I don't have a horse in this race , but usually top players like these have both worked very hard. And these rankings are pretty much the same given how subjective they are. 4 year QB view could probably find plenty of ammo for any point of view, from HS girls to NBA draft picks.
I'm happy for #33, although I'm not sure she would agree with your profile that she wasn't anything special. You're not Mr. Mikesell are you? lol and jk but maybe not.
CedarBuck92
Well-known member
Couple comments.
In regards to the "just work harder" idea. Its always great to see kids put effort into refining their craft. But sometimes you have to protect them from themselves. You have to train hard but you also have to recoup and recharge correctly.
In regards to the purpose of the running clock. I think at least some of it is to protect coaches from themselves.
In regards to the "just work harder" idea. Its always great to see kids put effort into refining their craft. But sometimes you have to protect them from themselves. You have to train hard but you also have to recoup and recharge correctly.
In regards to the purpose of the running clock. I think at least some of it is to protect coaches from themselves.
CasualFan24
Well-known member
Here's what you don't understand or maybe it's that your too short sighted to see....Officials are regular people too. I have young children, a family at home and a regular day job. I leave the house at 7:30am each morning, and on game nights like that, I don't even get to see my children that day. So while you can make jokes about it - the difference between starting a varsity game at 7pm or after 8pm means all the world to me, because it determines whether or not I get to put my kids to bed when I get home. It is people like you that make every single year of officiating harder and harder.
But hey - you're super cool for your sarcastic uneducated comments on this message board. I think the username "Keyboard Warrior" is available if you want it....
Ignorance must be such bliss...
CasualFan24
Well-known member
Again, ignorance - I know for a fact the #8 player didn't spend the amount of time on the court that the #33 player did. TBH, the #8 player didn't need to. She was a supremely gifted athlete.
Actually since you're so openly a fan of facts - open up google for me. Type: Taylor Mikesell Training. Then open up another page and search Kierstan Bell Training.
Tell us how many videos you see of each player working out.....and don't come back here claiming that they just didn't post the videos....if you're training the #8 player in the country, if the world of social media that we live in, you're 100% posting videos of it to help your brand/business.
Talk some sense
Active member
I know a lot of refs and respect them and what they do. Sorry if I touched a nerve. Thank you for your work so the kids can play games. I don't know everything of course, but I believe I have been balanced poster on this forum. Again I apologize for unintentionally making light of your situation.
Talk some sense
Active member
OK one top player worked harder than another. I don't follow girls basketball so wow what an amazing athlete #8 must be. And such a hard worker #33 seems to be.
CasualFan24
Well-known member
Moving on....
So we can't come to a consensus on a running clock....
Who's in favor of a shot clock!?! ?
So we can't come to a consensus on a running clock....
Who's in favor of a shot clock!?! ?
I'm coming around on it, and have even developed a formula for it.
The shot clock shall be the amount of time elapsed in a quarter when a team gains possession of the ball, subtracted from the initial time at the start of the quarter being 8 minutes. The buzzer for the shot clock and the buzzer to sound the end of regulation for the quarter shall simultaneously sound in unison.
Smarty2022
Well-known member
Keep the Running Clock! It’s been Great!
Sad, but true
14Red
Well-known member
Just because a kid plays AAU doesn't mean they are a good basketball player. You pay for a spot and you pay to play. There's no incentive to earn playing time by getting better. Also at many schools today, if a kid isn't a starter they don't want to play. This came from the "equal" playing time Idea that started 15-20 years ago. When kids have to compete for playing time, the product gets better. Now don't get me wrong, at the youth levels everyone should play, this at least hopefully insures the varsity coach doesn't have some first year players coming out in high school because all the kids who played before decided to "focus" on one sport. But my jr. high, it's time to win and start earning playing time.
Smarty2022
Well-known member
Princeton Girls Beat Western Hills 78-7 I saw. Running Clock only in 2nd Half. Did the Girls get enough playing time? Please keep up the Running Clock Mercy Rule!!!!
CedarBuck92
Well-known member
I half agree. You definitely should earn your PT in Jr. High but it is still about development over winning.
Thavoice
Well-known member
Concur.
JH every kid should play. How much PT depends on their ability and game.
Nephew was in a program with very, very low HS numbers. Embarrassingly low. So, to remedy that they had this great idea of playing all 15 8th grade kids the exact (as possible) playing time irregardless of ability, opponent and score. They wanted to keep them all happy so that next year they could have enough kids to fill the JV and have a FROSH team.
It backfired and it made a lot of the better players mad and surprise suprise, they quit and focused on other sports.
14Red
Well-known member
I can live with that. And I wholeheartedly agree, you need to develop at the jr. high level. I've see too many times these small schools get burnt when 3-4 kids start and get the lions share of the PT in 7th/ 8th grade and then abandon basketball in high school. The program is screwed at that point. Club Vball is a girls basketball killer.
14Red
Well-known member
15 is way too many. Need to either cut to 12 or have two teams. I know of some schools who have A and B teams or Blue and White if you want to be PC. There needs to be a "competition" for time at some point. The jr. high coaches should be instructed to get as many kids playing time as possible, but no specific time limit. Time and score has alot to do with this. Kids know, they know who should be playing the most time. It is incredibly frustrating to know you have chance to win games, but due to arbitrary playing time, you can't win games.
I think building a "culture" of basketball is also key. There isn't the same "responsibility" for kids to play "for the school" as generations past.
Somewhat agree with this. Our district has a semi-official policy that middle school teams are capped at 12 players. If that means that only one kid gets cut, then so be it.
I could make the argument that the cap should be dropped down to 10 players. It's hard to get kids meaningful playing time when you are doing only four 6-minute quarters.
The everyone gets a trophy mentality really should begin to disappear in middle school, TBH.
Last edited:
Talk some sense
Active member
Practice gets hard if you only have 10 and get an injury or somebody gets sick. I've coached where there are 2 teams of 8 or 9 that practice together. Works great.
14Red
Well-known member
I don't necessarily disagree, but we all know that it's very likely that someone gets sick/ hurt/ quits during the season. Better option for me would be to recruit 5-6 more kids and have two teams. For me, the more kids that are active in jr. high the better. You never know when that 4'9" 90 lb. 7th grader may have a growth spurt and be 6'0" as a junior and has never played organized basketball. Really hard to learn that late. Also, that 6'0" 7th grader that can't run and chew gum may get everything together by the time they are 16.
And I definitely agree on the time. 24 minutes is very difficult to get kids ample playing time. Again if it was me, I'd increase the quarters in jr. high to 7 or 8 minutes.
OnTheLine85
Well-known member
I think most teams keep 13-15 guys based on game rotation and some kids for the practice squad. Usually your 8-9 rotational players get most of the reps in practice but the 5-6 other kids are mimicking your competition for the week and helping the team prepare for their game. I've got alot of respect for kids that put in that work knowing they likely won't see many minutes but show up everyday with a good attitude and playing hard to make their team better.
These are some of the unseen things that make programs successful. Every kid has a role, and it doesn't have to be getting the bulk of the minutes on Friday night. It's not as glamourous but just as important to team success. Teaches humility, hard work, true teamwork.
As for freshman and JV levels, I have no issue taking more kids if your program infrastructure can handle it. There's no downside to it assuming you have the resources (coaches, court time, scheduling, etc).
These are some of the unseen things that make programs successful. Every kid has a role, and it doesn't have to be getting the bulk of the minutes on Friday night. It's not as glamourous but just as important to team success. Teaches humility, hard work, true teamwork.
As for freshman and JV levels, I have no issue taking more kids if your program infrastructure can handle it. There's no downside to it assuming you have the resources (coaches, court time, scheduling, etc).
If your an AAU program and are not full of talented players you have not done your job screening and recruiting. Many AAU teams are by invitation (recruiting) only. Some, such as Dayton Metro will have mandatory tryouts. The tryouts may have 30 -40 kids and you only have 3 remaining spots that need filled, or potentially no spots and the tryout is just a formality.
I think the club basketball, non card carrying form that plays tournaments similar to AAU may be what your thinking about. Those are indeed what I would term pay to play. Good AAU programs have sponsors who defray the real cost of travel and uniforms etc. Some kids, especially inner city programs, may pay zero for the opportunity to travel and compete. These are good players, selected for their talent and character.
Thavoice
Well-known member
GoOd Ole pay to play. That's what most of these so called travel baseball teams are about. First attribute? Are you willing to pay a few grand this summer to travel an for your kid to play ball all over the place ?
Yes? You made the team
There may be some of those types of programs, but there are plenty of others that are all about developing the athlete. Parents should able to identify the difference.
On the other hand, if that's what makes them happy (dropping a few k to play travel ball) then guess that's on them. I know of a few teams that had fees of 300-500 and played almost entirely local tournaments. They were not AAU but served a similar purpose and if that experience is what the athlete wanted I find that a rather cheap method of staying busy and getting social interaction.
Some kids do nothing on their own without parental encouragement. It is a high personal cost to sit in the basement for 15 hours every weekend playing video games not to mention game system costs.
The area I have concern about is the parent who can't see who their child really is and believes a couple summers playing travel basketball will make them a star. Those are the parents I have seen become disillusioned with the system, and blame the coaches for their inability to develop their average Joe son into a superstar.
I saw a survey that was conducted on exiting seniors who had played in travel basketball, conducted around 2012. For the athletes themselves, about 50% were happy they had played and traveled with teammates. For the parents, 20% felt the same and 80% were regretful. Don't know if those numbers would still apply today?
OnTheLine85
Well-known member
You can't expect every kid that plays HS basketball to play on a circuit program. There's too many kids. So just because a kid doesn't make one of those teams, it doesn't mean they're not a good player. Alot of politics and money relationships involved in those rosters. Alot of hassle too.
The key is to find a program that will not only play a bunch of games, but will work on development too. It's nice and fun to play a bunch of games, but you can do that anywhere. I'm not so sure soem random open gyms with local high school players wouldn't be just as beneficial. Skill work has to be part of your off-season - probably more important than games.
Get your skill work in, and play some games, whether that's AAU or just a bunch of open gyms with good players.
The key is to find a program that will not only play a bunch of games, but will work on development too. It's nice and fun to play a bunch of games, but you can do that anywhere. I'm not so sure soem random open gyms with local high school players wouldn't be just as beneficial. Skill work has to be part of your off-season - probably more important than games.
Get your skill work in, and play some games, whether that's AAU or just a bunch of open gyms with good players.