March 1st, Everything Opens, Mask optional, No Restrictions!

John74

Well-known member
Over 500,000 dead and your suggesting we give herd immunity a try w/o masks, etc. How many more dead would that have led to?


You really would consider anything Trump said that would contradict Fauci, or any other scientist? Like I said earlier, keep shooting off your mouth. You’re at risk for looking like one dumb MFer. But, you’re probably used to that. That statement applies to several of you.
Wow, are you eight? A guy that presents absolutely nothing but headline level sound bites and emotion. What a douchbag.
 

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
No, he is picking and choosing the science he believes in based off of his political views. The CDC says to wear a mask, but Trump hates it, well they are right. The career FDA scientists approved a vaccine that Trump had his hand in and will make him look good, well they are probably crooked and the dems that questioned it are heroes. See, science is politics and politics is science. It will be really interesting a year from now to see how they spin it when vials of vaccine doses are sitting in the shelves and a large percentage of the population are still saying “stick it”.
Science is now Politics. Skeptics are shunned. MSM and internet is the science of today imo Good point
 

lotr10

Well-known member
This is a great example of the politicization of science.


A Swedish professor of epidemiology has quit researching COVID-19 after facing fierce backlash over his findings that the illness poses a low threat to children — undermining the political argument that schools can’t reopen.

Jonas Ludvigsson, a professor of clinical epidemiology at the Karolinska Institute, said he has lost sleep as a result of the “angry messages through social media and email” assailing his study and partly blaming him for Sweden’s contrarian COVID-19 strategy, the College Fix reported.

His research focused on children ages 1 to 16 during the first wave of the pandemic last spring, including those with “laboratory-verified or clinically verified COVID-19, including patients who were admitted for multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children” because it’s “likely” related to the bug.

Only 15 children went to the ICU — a rate of 0.77 per 100,000, according to the report. Four had “an underlying chronic coexisting condition” and none died.

As far as teachers, “fewer than” 30 ended up in the ICU during the same period — a rate of about 19 per 100,000.

Ludvigsson also noted that children weren’t wearing face masks, while the rest of Swedish citizens were simply “encouraged” to practice social distancing.

And for this work he gets death threats.
 

Starkbuck

Active member
This is a great example of the politicization of science.


A Swedish professor of epidemiology has quit researching COVID-19 after facing fierce backlash over his findings that the illness poses a low threat to children — undermining the political argument that schools can’t reopen.

Jonas Ludvigsson, a professor of clinical epidemiology at the Karolinska Institute, said he has lost sleep as a result of the “angry messages through social media and email” assailing his study and partly blaming him for Sweden’s contrarian COVID-19 strategy, the College Fix reported.

His research focused on children ages 1 to 16 during the first wave of the pandemic last spring, including those with “laboratory-verified or clinically verified COVID-19, including patients who were admitted for multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children” because it’s “likely” related to the bug.

Only 15 children went to the ICU — a rate of 0.77 per 100,000, according to the report. Four had “an underlying chronic coexisting condition” and none died.

As far as teachers, “fewer than” 30 ended up in the ICU during the same period — a rate of about 19 per 100,000.


Ludvigsson also noted that children weren’t wearing face masks, while the rest of Swedish citizens were simply “encouraged” to practice social distancing.

And for this work he gets death threats.
Reading the rest of the article, I will make the counter argument that this professor writing a letter to the editor was an act of politicizing his scientific findings in an attempt to receive further protections for their work. It would seem to me that someone who is receiving death threats and losing sleep over his research wouldn't want to further spread his name and/or work to more people. One could also assume that this scientist was acting in a manner to gain notoriety and not for the benefit of science.

I am not saying I necessarily believe this, but this is an example of how one scenario can be interpreted two ways. This is why I would personally prefer to read the studies myself and reserve judgment until then, but as I have said before, most of our country is unwilling to do so.
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
But Trump’s guys had nothing to do with the approval. It was existing government agencies with a neutral oversight committee. Dr. Fauci was in his position years before Trump ever decided to enter politics. And to say the actual scientists that were responsible for the process could be driven by political motives is an insult. Again, I will ask, has a single whistleblower come forward and highlight any undue pressure to lie or cut corners?

Was Fauci free to speak his mind while Trump was in office? I’m sure the scientists would do their job, but Trump would still try to control the message, or completely lie about the findings. NY and California were targets of Trumps from the outset. I don’t blame them for not trusting anything coming from the Trump administration.

It’s a ridiculous argument. Maybe one of the most ridiculous in the whole year long debate. Looking back, there are quotes from Biden, Harris, Newsome, and Cuomo that call into question the safety of the vaccine due to Trump. Why? Because the president was a blow-hard and kept saying how great and wonderful the vaccine was going to be? Because he kept gloating that it could be here by Election Day? And then you have the gall to say no Democratics ever questioned the vaccine’s safety? GMAFB. And notice, I did put Trump first on my list of chuckleheads. He should have never used the vaccine as an election tool. But I guess wrongness in your mind is only one direction.
Yeah, due to Trump. They didn’t trust Trump. Why is that so hard to understand. He is a lying POS, and the cult believes everything he says.
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
Wow, are you eight? A guy that presents absolutely nothing but headline level sound bites and emotion. What a douchbag.
And you want to appear objective, but you completely shy away from specifically condemning Trump for anything. You’re one of “the Dems do the same thing“ crowd, but you’re very wrong. There have been Dems who have made major mistakes an done some pretty bad things, but no one ever to the level of Trump.
 

Starkbuck

Active member
And you want to appear objective, but you completely shy away from specifically condemning Trump for anything. You’re one of “the Dems do the same thing“ crowd, but you’re very wrong. There have been Dems who have made major mistakes an done some pretty bad things, but no one ever to the level of Trump.
So you feel that the politicians in Washington have never done things to the level of Trump? I would disagree whole-heartedly and say that Trump was not as good at doing these bad things as our politicians.
 

John74

Well-known member
And you want to appear objective, but you completely shy away from specifically condemning Trump for anything. You’re one of “the Dems do the same thing“ crowd, but you’re very wrong. There have been Dems who have made major mistakes an done some pretty bad things, but no one ever to the level of Trump.
You are absolutely silly. The vaccine was being developed under the Trump administration. Not Biden, not Clinton, not Obama. Trump. So either you trust the science, as you appear to when it fits your narrative, or you don’t. You appear to trust Fauci. You appear to trust the CDC. But the one thing that was going to end the whole thing, eh, that agency might be crooked. So all your little Dem buddies go on record and say I will not trust a vaccine approved under the Trump administration. Think about that for a minute. Trust the science of all these other government agencies, but don’t trust the one that may benefit Trump’s re-election campaign. I could care less about Donald Trump. He is a blow-hard rectum. I do care immensely that we have a vaccine that is not being accepted across the spectrum. Right wing, elderly, minorities. Get your head out of CNN and Trump and look at the damn health department web sites. Talk to nursing home case managers. Talk to medical personnel.

And then you throw out the condescending 500k dead and herd immunity will kill thousands more. Hey Einstein, actually read my posts. It’s going to be a mixture where hopefully a majority of the immunity will be by vaccine. But if they don’t get people on board at a level above 50-60%, it’s gonna be natural. Their decision, not mine or yours.

Sure would have been nice if the black, female VP that is looked up by many women and minorities would of said I trust Dr. Fauci and the FDA. I have confidence that they will maintain their professional standards of conduct and come forward if undue pressure is being applied for political gain. But no, she said she wouldn’t take any vaccine developed under the Trump administration. Whose was she going to take? Insert Cuomo, insert Biden, insert Newsome. All of them could have messaged differently and not hurt their standing and help build confidence in the process. But they didn’t. And you are to obtuse to understand the problem. By the way, whose administration’s vaccine is being safely put in the arms of tens of millions of people? Did any of those secondary evaluations ever happen? Nope, looks like the process was good even with all Trump’s idiotic rhetoric. Hmm.
 

2manyBats

Well-known member
TrueEagle = or should we use Douchbag
According to the Tenth Amendment ... And this is Totally Against what you Want

Each State retains its Sovereignty, Freedom, independence ......

Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.[7]
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
So far the little I've seen on the long lasting effects of covid infection is that they're not expected to be much different then the flu. For most people there won't be any.

I completely misunderstood nupanther's question but I would reiterate that by far the worst SHORT & LONG TERM damage of the covid to young people will be the effects of the lock downs. Direct covid effects will be like a pea on an elephants back in comparison.
A small number of people can’t shake the COVID symptoms, some severe, even after being proclaimed over the illness. That includes some children. We still don’t really know what we are dealing with.
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
You are absolutely silly. The vaccine was being developed under the Trump administration. Not Biden, not Clinton, not Obama. Trump. So either you trust the science, as you appear to when it fits your narrative, or you don’t. You appear to trust Fauci. You appear to trust the CDC. But the one thing that was going to end the whole thing, eh, that agency might be crooked. So all your little Dem buddies go on record and say I will not trust a vaccine approved under the Trump administration. Think about that for a minute. Trust the science of all these other government agencies, but don’t trust the one that may benefit Trump’s re-election campaign. I could care less about Donald Trump. He is a blow-hard rectum. I do care immensely that we have a vaccine that is not being accepted across the spectrum. Right wing, elderly, minorities. Get your head out of CNN and Trump and look at the damn health department web sites. Talk to nursing home case managers. Talk to medical personnel.

What I and others didn’t trust was Trump. He tried hard to get the scientists to lie to fit his narrative of the virus, or have you conveniently forgotten that. Birx ruined her reputation and retired because she fell for Trump’s BS. I never said I didn’t trust the science. Not once. Trump would lie and misrepresent anything, scientifically proven or not, to discredit the states of New York or California.


And then you throw out the condescending 500k dead and herd immunity will kill thousands more. Hey Einstein, actually read my posts. It’s going to be a mixture where hopefully a majority of the immunity will be by vaccine. But if they don’t get people on board at a level above 50-60%, it’s gonna be natural. Their decision, not mine or yours.

And, your degree is in what branch of science? You consider yourself quite the expert don’t you? I know all about the combined vaccine/COVID patients herd immunity theory. Sounds great. The problem is you can’t get the cult and other mouth breathers to get the damn vaccine.

Sure would have been nice if the black, female VP that is looked up by many women and minorities would of said I trust Dr. Fauci and the FDA. I have confidence that they will maintain their professional standards of conduct and come forward if undue pressure is being applied for political gain. But no, she said she wouldn’t take any vaccine developed under the Trump administration. Whose was she going to take? Insert Cuomo, insert Biden, insert Newsome. All of them could have messaged differently and not hurt their standing and help build confidence in the process. But they didn’t. And you are to obtuse to understand the problem. By the way, whose administration’s vaccine is being safely put in the arms of tens of millions of people? Did any of those secondary evaluations ever happen? Nope, looks like the process was good even with all Trump’s idiotic rhetoric. Hmm.

To set the record straight Harris said she would take the vaccine on the recommendation of medical science, but she would not on Trump’s word alone. That’s pretty much the same thing others said. Fact check it, and stop taking partial quotes out of context. 90% of the people who refused the vaccine probably would have taken it if Trump would have admitted to getting the vaccine himself in December. Total hole. Another example of his failed leadership costing lives.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
A small number of people can’t shake the COVID symptoms, some severe, even after being proclaimed over the illness. That includes some children. We still don’t really know what we are dealing with.
This is true about all sorts of health hazards. But you don't shutdown society over it.
 

gneiss rocks

Well-known member
Amazing there are still kids not going to school in dem run cities for a virus less 30 times less deadly than the flu and almost no cases of student to teacher transmission... Truly sick people!

This is a sad but true portrayal of what goes on when the kids go back to school in theses hell holes.
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
Amazing there are still kids not going to school in dem run cities for a virus less 30 times less deadly than the flu and almost no cases of student to teacher transmission... Truly sick people!

This is a sad but true portrayal of what goes on when the kids go back to school in theses hell holes.
How do you figure? In a typical year the flu kills 50,000 or so Americans. COVID is at 517,000 and counting. You don’t know your from 3rd base.
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
How do you figure? In a typical year the flu kills 50,000 or so Americans. COVID is at 517,000 and counting. You don’t know your from 3rd base.
This is about kids. Kids don't die from it. They don't even end up in the hospital with it. Have you been following the data on this? This is child abuse, plain and simple, that they are not back in school full time.
 

gneiss rocks

Well-known member
This is about kids. Kids don't die from it. They don't even end up in the hospital with it. Have you been following the data on this? This is child abuse, plain and simple, that they are not back in school full time.
So harmful to kids, suicide rates skyrocketing among kids not in school, no sports or activities also destroying students and putting them behind for life.

All completely dem run with racist intent, inner city schools mostly. Just keep knee capping and killing off a bunch of poor useless minorities, we can import new ones...truly evil intent!
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
This is about kids. Kids don't die from it. They don't even end up in the hospital with it. Have you been following the data on this? This is child abuse, plain and simple, that they are not back in school full time.
You’re right I misread your post. For the most part agree on children and COVID. Flu isn’t much of a threat to kids either.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
How do you figure? In a typical year the flu kills 50,000 or so Americans. COVID is at 517,000 and counting. You don’t know your from 3rd base.
Not true. You're comparing apples & oranges. The counting methodology for covid deaths was changed and is not at all like the methodology used to count flu deaths. On top of that there has been substantial financial incentives provided to call as many deaths as possible "covid deaths".

Most experts in the field I have read believe that the Spanish Flu of 1918 was much worse then covid and that the Asian (1958) & Hong Kong (1969) flu outbreaks were as bad.

It's fair to say that covid has been much worse then a typical flu season. But beyond that the current covid death totals should be skeptically viewed.
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
Not true. You're comparing apples & oranges. The counting methodology for covid deaths was changed and is not at all like the methodology used to count flu deaths. On top of that there has been substantial financial incentives provided to call as many deaths as possible "covid deaths".

BS. Too much Fox News. I want your proof of people making $ of off inflating the COVID figures. That right wing nonsense was debunked months ago. The inflating of death figures for profit came from a Trump speech nearly a year ago. Another lie from one of the most prolific liars in history. Also, thoroughly debunked just recently in a USA Today article is the conspiracy theory claiming the death totals are exaggerated. These two fabrications are solely being kept alive by the nut job conspiracy crowd. Fact check them.

Most experts in the field I have read believe that the Spanish Flu of 1918 was much worse then covid and that the Asian (1958) & Hong Kong (1969) flu outbreaks were as bad.

It's fair to say that covid has been much worse then a typical flu season. But beyond that the current covid death totals should be skeptically viewed.
 
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