March 1st, Everything Opens, Mask optional, No Restrictions!

Starkbuck

Active member
Is the majority of the country that polarized or has the ease of social media give really big voices to a few? I don’t know the answer to that question other than after the election, it seems like it’s either you are with us or against us.
Again, another great point. I don't have that information, but you are probably correct that the talking heads cloud the view.
 

Starkbuck

Active member
Are you following policy from the Biden administration? It's not a few, it's a majority.
I was simply referring to the number of people who are wishing for failure of a sitting president to confirm their negativity bias is representative of the majority of our country. This is not a partisan issue by any means.
 

OldSoulon

Well-known member
I was simply referring to the number of people who are wishing for failure of a sitting president to confirm their negativity bias is representative of the majority of our country. This is not a partisan issue by any means.
Are you shocked that he is being held accountable after what Trump went through, EVEN BEFORE DAY ONE?
 

2manyBats

Well-known member
Is the majority of the country that polarized or has the ease of social media give really big voices to a few? I don’t know the answer to that question other than after the election, it seems like it’s either you are with us or against us.
Harvard/Harris poll:
Which do you find more concerning
- the violence in American cities during the summer or the riots at the Capitol on January 6th?
55% Violence in the cities
45% January 6th riot

Democratic Officials See it Differently
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
At least educate yourself on the vaccine rates before making claims. The day that Biden took office, the supply chain from top-to-bottom was primed and manufacturing was making the vaccines that were due to be distributed through the end of March. Whatever magic fairy dust you think he did will not be fully responsible for pumping out vials for at least another 4-weeks. It amazes me how uneducated the general public is on how stuff is actually made. Or did Joe have equipment, factories, quality plans and approvals, trained staff, and raw materials hidden in his rectum on Inauguration Day that he magically pulled out?

Two vaccine methodologies that have never proven successful. Two vaccine methodologies whose raw material is so fragile that it fails at a high rate in a one-off lab environment let alone in machines that are pumping out millions of doses a day. Two vaccine methodologies that would have taken years to even get started in the approval process approved for use in 9-months. Two vaccine methodologies that can be tailor-made to variations in weeks. Yeah, we failed as a country.
I certainly don’t think we failed as a country. Only that the fight against COVID under Trump was a disaster for thousands of Americans and their families. Much of the lab work necessary for COVID vaccine development was jump started by years of work on the related SARS illness that we have been concerned with for years. In addition, our vaccine development piggybacked work done not just in American labs, but also labs all over Europe and Asia. Science worked a miracle with the vaccine, but it wasn’t done in nine months. They weren’t starting from scratch. Several Biden administration officials have lamented our lack of planning and readiness to implement the vaccination of the American people under the Trump administration. Based on the chaotic and dishonest performance of Trump throughout the pandemic I think most people believe our current administration.
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
My only two counters to that is that manufacturing and distribution activities usually get better and more efficient as time goes on, so the increase is likely organic in nature. Unless I missed a major change point in the news?

Secondly, I don’t care if you are left wing or right wing, you have to admit the whole distribution process was going to get jumbled as long as Trump was in office. There were states and governors that would have fought tooth and nail to have ANY federal involvement in their state to help with distribution. Left wing states would have done it because of the great political divide and the final chance to poke their thumb in Trump’s eye. Right wing states would have pushed back because of state sovereignty and state rights. I look at the distribution failure as more of a state level failure.
That’s why leadership at the national level is so important. You have no leadership when all the President cares about is self promotion and how he’s going to look to the American people, or how much personal wealth he can grift in the process. The lack of unity among the states was encouraged by Trump from the day he took office.
 

2manyBats

Well-known member
I certainly don’t think we failed as a country. Only that the fight against COVID under Trump was a disaster for thousands of Americans and their families.
Remember - The States control themselves !

You have blinders on when it comes to the Factual Truths !
 

2manyBats

Well-known member
That’s why leadership at the national level is so important. You have no leadership when all the President cares about is self promotion and how he’s going to look to the American people, or how much personal wealth he can grift in the process. The lack of unity among the states was encouraged by Trump from the day he took office.
You believe this because the Main Stream Media Declared it to be Truthful ! - FAKE NEWS

Democratic Voters were Rioting on Trump's Inauguration Day !

Time will Prove you WRONG
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
I will say this about your chart based off of how the political environment is. If I really wanted to hate Joe Biden and my nerves were so sensitive to everything he did, I would call him an absolute failure for the dip that happened during the inclement weather in February. Didn’t he know that the US could have large areas impacted by snow and ice in February? Didn’t his team have a contingency plan? People died because he let a little snow and ice hold up the greatest power on earth. What a failure!

But I don’t want my president or country to fail. I don’t want to short change the great minds that came up with the vaccine and manufacturing supply chain. Crap sometimes happens that delays huge undertakings and to pin that on one guy is crazy.
You’re right, Biden forgot about the idiots running Texas.
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
You believe this because the Main Stream Media Declared it to be Truthful ! - FAKE NEWS

Democratic Voters were Rioting on Trump's Inauguration Day !

Time will Prove you WRONG
You have the same cult talking points on everything. Try giving us some of your own original thoughts on anything.
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
Remember - The States control themselves !

You have blinders on when it comes to the Factual Truths !
The federal government is expected to unite the states on issues of national concern. That’s what the term federalism means. The states are not expected to chart their own futures.
 

2manyBats

Well-known member
You’re right, Biden forgot about the idiots running Texas.
The truth is that the federal government controls how Texas generates electricity - the mix of sources and the capacity of each.

The EPA requires that Texas' fossil fuel power generators operate far below their maximum output.

Texas knew that if the EPA would allow our natural gas and coal power plants to operate at peak efficiency they could meet 110% of the demand the state faced last week.

The EPA refused.

Biden's acting EPA chief, David Huizenga, is not an expert at power generation but instead an expert with nuclear waste management
 

John74

Well-known member
That’s why leadership at the national level is so important. You have no leadership when all the President cares about is self promotion and how he’s going to look to the American people, or how much personal wealth he can grift in the process. The lack of unity among the states was encouraged by Trump from the day he took office.
How do you think this would of played out if HRC would have won in 2016? Be really honest with yourself. Her every move would not have been highlighted every second and a big chunk of the media would have given her a free pass. A trial run can be seen in the whole Cuomo fiasco playing out now. Ignored until it became too big to ignore.

Plus, you don’t think the red states would have fought, ignored, and bucked every move if she was the point person? I can about guarantee every single red state would have told her to screw off and legally challenged any shutdown or mask mandate. Remember, you have blue population centers versus giant swaths of red, it would of been a monumental struggle.

You are letting your hatred for the man cloud your understanding of how good we ever could have responded to something like this. The CDC was decades behind in technology courtesy of several Rep and Dem administrations. The CDC’s in-house globally recognized testing leader pulled a boneheaded move that delayed any hope of getting testing out in a timely manner. You think old HRC would have trusted the globally recognized leader or yanked him at the first sign of trouble?

Sure, Trump is an obnoxious . He babbled and bragged to no end. He should of just shut up, but his personality is so different that he couldn’t. But there was only one way we were ever going to get out of this. Immunity, either through natural progression or a vaccine. Every thing else was duct tape trying to keep the wheels on.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
At least educate yourself on the vaccine rates before making claims. The day that Biden took office, the supply chain from top-to-bottom was primed and manufacturing was making the vaccines that were due to be distributed through the end of March. Whatever magic fairy dust you think he did will not be fully responsible for pumping out vials for at least another 4-weeks. It amazes me how uneducated the general public is on how stuff is actually made. Or did Joe have equipment, factories, quality plans and approvals, trained staff, and raw materials hidden in his rectum on Inauguration Day that he magically pulled out?

Two vaccine methodologies that have never proven successful. Two vaccine methodologies whose raw material is so fragile that it fails at a high rate in a one-off lab environment let alone in machines that are pumping out millions of doses a day. Two vaccine methodologies that would have taken years to even get started in the approval process approved for use in 9-months. Two vaccine methodologies that can be tailor-made to variations in weeks. Yeah, we failed as a country.
Years ago when I joined a major corporation to work in exploratory R&D one of the first things they did was send us to a manufacturing plant to watch product being made and packaged. It was an eye opener! The complexity was breathtaking. The message was clear to us eggheads.

I learned two key lessons from this: when developing a new technology try to keep it simple and pay attention to what might happen during the manufacturing process AND bring donuts when you visit the plant for startup pilot runs.

As an aside your point about the complexity is spot on. To be able to manufacture & package these vaccines in such large numbers given their fragility is astonishing.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
As an aside your point about the complexity is spot on. To be able to manufacture & package these vaccines in such large numbers given their fragility is astonishing.
Which is why I said last year it would be 2 years at least before an effective vaccine would be available (half the time of normal).... Thankfully, I was wrong.

It is truly astonishing what was accomplished with this vaccine.
 

John74

Well-known member
I certainly don’t think we failed as a country. Only that the fight against COVID under Trump was a disaster for thousands of Americans and their families. Much of the lab work necessary for COVID vaccine development was jump started by years of work on the related SARS illness that we have been concerned with for years. In addition, our vaccine development piggybacked work done not just in American labs, but also labs all over Europe and Asia. Science worked a miracle with the vaccine, but it wasn’t done in nine months. They weren’t starting from scratch. Several Biden administration officials have lamented our lack of planning and readiness to implement the vaccination of the American people under the Trump administration. Based on the chaotic and dishonest performance of Trump throughout the pandemic I think most people believe our current administration.
Yep, they had it in their back pocket. Just like baking cookies. Add a little more sugar and a touch of vanilla and bam, you got something.

Except in this case, there was never a successful mRNA vaccine. Never. Oh, and the creation of the foundational components for mRNA is so full of failure that the experts that work with the stuff every day joke that you can’t even look at it wrong or it will break.

Oh, and let’s not forget that little thing called
antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) effect, which was a major issue with the work on SARS and MERS vaccine development.

And your are right, the vaccine wasn’t developed in nine months. It was conceived, tested, approved, manufacturing methods created, plants and equipment procured and built, and the supply chain primed in nine months.
 

John74

Well-known member
Which is why I said last year it would be 2 years at least before an effective vaccine would be available (half the time of normal).... Thankfully, I was wrong.

It is truly astonishing what was accomplished with this vaccine.
Agree with both comments. I was a huge nay sayer in the beginning. It’s truly an amazing effort by all that contributed.
 

Starkbuck

Active member
Are you shocked that he is being held accountable after what Trump went through, EVEN BEFORE DAY ONE?
I am not defending Biden. I think all elected leaders should be held accountable. I have made no argument against accountability and have in fact argued that many people in this country are too lazy and ignorant to independently form their own opinions and would rather parrot what is fed to them. So I am not sure why you are asking me if I am shocked, when that is exactly what I was pointing out.
 

Starkbuck

Active member
Did you watch MSM in 2016?
Yes, this is what I am talking about. It is not just MSM, it is every form of media, rampantly spreading misinformation with the intent of creating revenue and knowing that the majority of our country will believe whatever they see or hear. You are confirming my stance that the majority of America is too lazy and ignorant to think for themselves.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
I was simply referring to the number of people who are wishing for failure of a sitting president to confirm their negativity bias is representative of the majority of our country. This is not a partisan issue by any means.
If his policies are bad for America then yes, I wish for his failure in implementing those policies.
 

John74

Well-known member
If his policies are bad for America then yes, I wish for his failure in implementing those policies.
And there is the problem. We have reached a point where it is a power struggle where each side hits their opponent with a hammer when they gain the upper hand. Each side votes as a party block and punishes the other side even if it’s bad for their constituents. No common sense to reach across the aisle and make sure what is going on is prudent and checked. Both sides are guilty, so if your side is not in power, your only recourse is to hope for complete failure.
 

boiler

Well-known member
And there is the problem. We have reached a point where it is a power struggle where each side hits their opponent with a hammer when they gain the upper hand. Each side votes as a party block and punishes the other side even if it’s bad for their constituents. No common sense to reach across the aisle and make sure what is going on is prudent and checked. Both sides are guilty, so if your side is not in power, your only recourse is to hope for complete failure.
There are good policies that help Americans and bad policies that don't. Can anyone provide me with a benefit to Americans from illegal immigration? Please do not say cheap labor. I cannot think of one good reason.
 

OldSoulon

Well-known member
I am not defending Biden. I think all elected leaders should be held accountable. I have made no argument against accountability and have in fact argued that many people in this country are too lazy and ignorant to independently form their own opinions and would rather parrot what is fed to them. So I am not sure why you are asking me if I am shocked, when that is exactly what I was pointing out.
So no one wished for Trump to fail, including politicizing the COVID pandemic, taking a very difficult decision, using it against him?

To the point of killing senior citizens in nursing homes to make him look bad?
 

John74

Well-known member
There are good policies that help Americans and bad policies that don't. Can anyone provide me with a benefit to Americans from illegal immigration? Please do not say cheap labor. I cannot think of one good reason.
It gets jumbled up by politics. Illegal immigration is terrible. There is no reason any border should ever be freely open. It is detrimental to the safety and health for both the immigrants and US citizens.

On the flip side, the entire process is broken. If the person wanting entry to the US is not well off or sponsored through employment, it is a financially impossible multi year process that many can’t do. So they try to circumvent using asylum rules or entering illegally.

So both parties war on. If you are against illegal immigration, you are a bigot. If you are for it, you are un-American and anti security. And the population just sits there watching whatever propaganda they agree with and give the politicians a free pass because of party loyalty.
 

2manyBats

Well-known member
Who wouldn't want to come to the United States ...... we can't Employ Everyone, the US doesn't have Job Openings
 
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