March 1st, Everything Opens, Mask optional, No Restrictions!

Starkbuck

Active member
So no one wished for Trump to fail, including politicizing the COVID pandemic, taking a very difficult decision, using it against him?

To the point of killing senior citizens in nursing homes to make him look bad?
Yes, they did. I am agreeing with you, so what are you arguing? My original point is that the vast majority of our country are too lazy and ignorant to formulate their own opinions and would rather be a parrot for something they heard.

Again, I don't think this blind ignorance is a partisan issue by any means. I simply believe that the majority of our country are going to align with a D or R regardless of the candidate. I also think that this majority would rather get behind something they heard than formulate their own opinion. You turning this into me being against Trump is kind of proving my point, as I have said it would be unwise to wish failure upon our president as it will ultimately hurt us.
 

OldSoulon

Well-known member
Yes, they did. I am agreeing with you, so what are you arguing? My original point is that the vast majority of our country are too lazy and ignorant to formulate their own opinions and would rather be a parrot for something they heard.

Again, I don't think this blind ignorance is a partisan issue by any means. I simply believe that the majority of our country are going to align with a D or R regardless of the candidate. I also think that this majority would rather get behind something they heard than formulate their own opinion. You turning this into me being against Trump is kind of proving my point, as I have said it would be unwise to wish failure upon our president as it will ultimately hurt us.
Look at my face!

My life is one big argument. And don't cross me when I'm drinking.

We good.
 

John74

Well-known member
Who wouldn't want to come to the United States ...... we can't Employ Everyone, the US doesn't have Job Openings
Sure we do have openings. Drive by almost every manufacturing plant in Ohio and there is a sign hanging up for workers. Trades businesses can’t find anyone to fill slots.

There is whole other set of issues about getting people employed that will show up every day on time and and have the ability to pass a piss test. I oversaw a plant expansion several years ago where we required an additional 400-workers because of a new line. These were $20+ per hour jobs, climate controlled well lit facility, good insurance, full tuition reimbursement, ergonomically designed processes, and a company match 401k. We ended up cycling through over 2200 applicants to fill those positions with good people.

But all of that could be controlled with good immigration policy. Set quotas based off of certain criteria. Solidify the asylum rules. Get control of the situation.
 

James x2

Well-known member
It's still him

New name, same wrapper
That's why I called him out a few weeks back. No moron could spew this stuff and coincidently have a soul mate with a similar name spewing similar garbage. Not to bright are you Snappier go sucks thee?
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
The truth is that the federal government controls how Texas generates electricity - the mix of sources and the capacity of each.

The EPA requires that Texas' fossil fuel power generators operate far below their maximum output.

Texas knew that if the EPA would allow our natural gas and coal power plants to operate at peak efficiency they could meet 110% of the demand the state faced last week.

The EPA refused.

Biden's acting EPA chief, David Huizenga, is not an expert at power generation but instead an expert with nuclear waste management
Let’s not get into appointing experts to the cabinet after the farce of Trump’s cabinet. As long as they were in the cult they were qualified. Mark Esper, Betsy DeVos, Ben Carson, Rick Perry, WilburRoss, Ryan Zinke, Steve Bannon, Scott Pruitt, Rex Tillerson, Jared Kushner, Ivanka Trump, and a host of unqualified judges and minor appointments. None of these folks were even remotely qualified for the posts Trump gave them, but the Republican controlled Senate played right along. Now Senate Republicans act like care about Biden’s qualified appointees.
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
How do you think this would of played out if HRC would have won in 2016? Be really honest with yourself. Her every move would not have been highlighted every second and a big chunk of the media would have given her a free pass. A trial run can be seen in the whole Cuomo fiasco playing out now. Ignored until it became too big to ignore.

Plus, you don’t think the red states would have fought, ignored, and bucked every move if she was the point person? I can about guarantee every single red state would have told her to screw off and legally challenged any shutdown or mask mandate. Remember, you have blue population centers versus giant swaths of red, it would of been a monumental struggle.

You are letting your hatred for the man cloud your understanding of how good we ever could have responded to something like this. The CDC was decades behind in technology courtesy of several Rep and Dem administrations. The CDC’s in-house globally recognized testing leader pulled a boneheaded move that delayed any hope of getting testing out in a timely manner. You think old HRC would have trusted the globally recognized leader or yanked him at the first sign of trouble?

Sure, Trump is an obnoxious . He babbled and bragged to no end. He should of just shut up, but his personality is so different that he couldn’t. But there was only one way we were ever going to get out of this. Immunity, either through natural progression or a vaccine. Every thing else was duct tape trying to keep the wheels on.
So how does this end. You folks haven’t even given Biden a chance. You criticize everything. That is astonishing after the free pass Trump was given. Democracies that do not understand the importance of compromise fail. We need, both Dems and Rep, to elect people who will compromise and put the country first.
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
So no one wished for Trump to fail, including politicizing the COVID pandemic, taking a very difficult decision, using it against him?

To the point of killing senior citizens in nursing homes to make him look bad?
Yeah, but he lied to us. Told us it was like the flu and would soon end. Nothing to worry about. And, he knew the truth months earlier (Woodward tapes) and let Americans die. Had he just told the truth, how many people would have masked up and socially distanced and lived. That is unforgiveable.
 

TigerPaw

Well-known member
Yeah, but he lied to us. Told us it was like the flu and would soon end. Nothing to worry about. And, he knew the truth months earlier (Woodward tapes) and let Americans die. Had he just told the truth, how many people would have masked up and socially distanced and lived. That is unforgiveable.
So he lies alot, pffft. That don't phase supporters. He also got vaccinated in January and didn't want anyone to know. Because that's how big a piece of **** he is. But again, won't phase 'em.

 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
Remember - The States control themselves !
No they don’t. They share power with the federal government. It is called federalism, and it is one of the main concepts upon which our government was founded. Did you drop out before high school government class?

You have blinders on when it comes to the Factual Truths !
 

John74

Well-known member
So how does this end. You folks haven’t even given Biden a chance. You criticize everything. That is astonishing after the free pass Trump was given. Democracies that do not understand the importance of compromise fail. We need, both Dems and Rep, to elect people who will compromise and put the country first.
I haven’t criticized Biden at all. I’ve criticized people that say we are improving now due to Biden. He hasn’t been in office long enough to do anything. It’s just childish gloating about nothing that diminishes the true heroes.

This will end, and probably very shortly. Go out and about any weekend and stores and restaurants are packed. Manufacturing workers have been back to work full tilt since May. I get to 5-6 factories a week, and only about half even require masks anymore. The only holdouts are a few school systems and college professors. And that will change by next school year or I guarantee there will be hell to pay. Colleges are going to see financial hardship and public schools will lose community support.

What else can happen? Wait for variant after variant? How do you even know if one variant is more deadly or worse than another? Our scientific community has done an awful job of cataloging and mapping samples, so they are just spitballing off of incomplete data.

And no one is even talking about the elephant in the room. They are starting to hit the critical mass as far as those that will take the vaccine in the subgroups. I watch a four county area and they are begging people to show up at clinics. All the way through the day of the clinic, messages pop up that there are still tons of spots left. Nursing homes are pretty much tapped out at 50-60 percent. Maybe all these chuckleheads like Trump, Cuomo, Biden, Pelosi, Fauci, Newsome, Dewine, et al. could have put their political game playing aside and and done a full court blitz and tried to ease the anxiety throughout the public about the safety of the vaccine from day #1 of development. They did the opposite and questioned the approval process. WTF? But hey, stuff like the crying nurse commercial was money well spent. May of even resulted in more people meandering out and about with their underwear mask “saving” people.
 

John74

Well-known member
Yeah, but he lied to us. Told us it was like the flu and would soon end. Nothing to worry about. And, he knew the truth months earlier (Woodward tapes) and let Americans die. Had he just told the truth, how many people would have masked up and socially distanced and lived. That is unforgiveable.
We have been masked up and socially distanced, and cases are still happening and people are still dying.

You act like those acts were the same as him shooting them down with a gun. Lying, half truths, gloating, and embellishing were all moves, no doubt. And there is good reason for many to really hate the guy because of it. But the fact is, how much did any of that impact the overall death toll? You stated earlier that we were the worst country by far as far as death toll. I ran the numbers for Western Europe, and that statement is simply not true. The U.K. and Italy have a higher rate than the US. Spain and France were slightly lower, but in the ballpark. Germany did much better. Far East societies did much better. Why? It comes down to either being willing to militarily lock your society down or having the willingness of society to share health data and the technology foundation already in place to track and isolate. The US couldn’t or wouldn’t do either, so we ended up directionaly pretty close to similar countries.
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
I haven’t criticized Biden at all. I’ve criticized people that say we are improving now due to Biden. He hasn’t been in office long enough to do anything. It’s just childish gloating about nothing that diminishes the true heroes.

This will end, and probably very shortly. Go out and about any weekend and stores and restaurants are packed. Manufacturing workers have been back to work full tilt since May. I get to 5-6 factories a week, and only about half even require masks anymore. The only holdouts are a few school systems and college professors. And that will change by next school year or I guarantee there will be hell to pay. Colleges are going to see financial hardship and public schools will lose community support.

What else can happen? Wait for variant after variant? How do you even know if one variant is more deadly or worse than another? Our scientific community has done an awful job of cataloging and mapping samples, so they are just spitballing off of incomplete data.

And no one is even talking about the elephant in the room. They are starting to hit the critical mass as far as those that will take the vaccine in the subgroups. I watch a four county area and they are begging people to show up at clinics. All the way through the day of the clinic, messages pop up that there are still tons of spots left. Nursing homes are pretty much tapped out at 50-60 percent. Maybe all these chuckleheads like Trump, Cuomo, Biden, Pelosi, Fauci, Newsome, Dewine, et al. could have put their political game playing aside and and done a full court blitz and tried to ease the anxiety throughout the public about the safety of the vaccine from day #1 of development. They did the opposite and questioned the approval process. WTF? But hey, stuff like the crying nurse commercial was money well spent. May of even resulted in more people meandering out and about with their underwear mask “saving” people.
Sorry the vaccine safety issue is on Trump and his followers. Have you heard any democratic leader question the safety or necessity of the vaccine? I have not. Otherwise I agree with you unless a variant develops that does pose a truly serious threat to life and the current vaccines aren’t effective in fighting it. I believe science will eventually defeat COVID, but that’s probably going to take a lot more cooperation from all the American people.
 

John74

Well-known member
Sorry the vaccine safety issue is on Trump and his followers. Have you heard any democratic leader question the safety or necessity of the vaccine? I have not. Otherwise I agree with you unless a variant develops that does pose a truly serious threat to life and the current vaccines aren’t effective in fighting it. I believe science will eventually defeat COVID, but that’s probably going to take a lot more cooperation from all the American people.
Man, you must have been under a rock in late October and early November. Newsome and Cuomo both went on record that their states were going to do their own review because they were afraid Trump would compromise the approval. Pelosi said something very similar. And Fauci was silent. He should have been raising holy hell supporting the independent government agencies that were analyzing the data. Those were his people.
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
Man, you must have been under a rock in late October and early November. Newsome and Cuomo both went on record that their states were going to do their own review because they were afraid Trump would compromise the approval. Pelosi said something very similar. And Fauci was silent. He should have been raising holy hell supporting the independent government agencies that were analyzing the data. Those were his people.
But that is not refusing the vaccine, or doubting the validity of it. That’s more about not trusting Trump. Fauci was quiet because he didn’t trust anythingTrump said. Why would any state want the Trump adm to evaluate anything in their state related to COVID.
 
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winbypin

Well-known member
So how does this end. You folks haven’t even given Biden a chance. You criticize everything. That is astonishing after the free pass Trump was given. Democracies that do not understand the importance of compromise fail. We need, both Dems and Rep, to elect people who will compromise and put the country first.
New to this planet I see...
 

winbypin

Well-known member
Yeah, but he lied to us. Told us it was like the flu and would soon end. Nothing to worry about. And, he knew the truth months earlier (Woodward tapes) and let Americans die. Had he just told the truth, how many people would have masked up and socially distanced and lived. That is unforgiveable.
We've been masked up and socially distanced for nearly a year now.
 

John74

Well-known member
But that is not refusing the vaccine, or doubting the validity of it. That’s more about not trusting Trump. Fauci was quiet because he didn’t trust anythingTrump said. Why would any state want the Trump adm to evaluate anything in their state related to COVID.
The approval process was done by career scientists with a neutral oversight board and may be the most critical scientific breakthrough in a century. The exact quotes from Newsome and Cuomo can be found all over the web. Leaders of over 50-million citizens and leaders of hard hit states. They were not going to take the federal government’s evaluator agencies findings and they were going to form there own agencies to approve. Why? Did they have evidence of evaluators not doing their job? Have you heard a peep from any whistleblower since that the process wasn’t on the full up-and-up? Nope. Because Trump was going to take credit and win the election? That’s a far cry from disrupting an impartial analysis. Pure political noise from people who you said were above that. Guess what, the seeds of doubt they sewed with no firm basis killed people and are killing people today. They are no better than any other garden variety slug.
 

winbypin

Well-known member
Sorry the vaccine safety issue is on Trump and his followers. Have you heard any democratic leader question the safety or necessity of the vaccine? I have not. Otherwise I agree with you unless a variant develops that does pose a truly serious threat to life and the current vaccines aren’t effective in fighting it. I believe science will eventually defeat COVID, but that’s probably going to take a lot more cooperation from all the American people.
The vice president is on line 2.
 

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
And there is the problem. We have reached a point where it is a power struggle where each side hits their opponent with a hammer when they gain the upper hand. Each side votes as a party block and punishes the other side even if it’s bad for their constituents. No common sense to reach across the aisle and make sure what is going on is prudent and checked. Both sides are guilty, so if your side is not in power, your only recourse is to hope for complete failure.
Are you versed in tactical politics? The ends justifies the means.
 

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
I haven’t criticized Biden at all. I’ve criticized people that say we are improving now due to Biden. He hasn’t been in office long enough to do anything. It’s just childish gloating about nothing that diminishes the true heroes.

This will end, and probably very shortly. Go out and about any weekend and stores and restaurants are packed. Manufacturing workers have been back to work full tilt since May. I get to 5-6 factories a week, and only about half even require masks anymore. The only holdouts are a few school systems and college professors. And that will change by next school year or I guarantee there will be hell to pay. Colleges are going to see financial hardship and public schools will lose community support.

What else can happen? Wait for variant after variant? How do you even know if one variant is more deadly or worse than another? Our scientific community has done an awful job of cataloging and mapping samples, so they are just spitballing off of incomplete data.

And no one is even talking about the elephant in the room. They are starting to hit the critical mass as far as those that will take the vaccine in the subgroups. I watch a four county area and they are begging people to show up at clinics. All the way through the day of the clinic, messages pop up that there are still tons of spots left. Nursing homes are pretty much tapped out at 50-60 percent. Maybe all these chuckleheads like Trump, Cuomo, Biden, Pelosi, Fauci, Newsome, Dewine, et al. could have put their political game playing aside and and done a full court blitz and tried to ease the anxiety throughout the public about the safety of the vaccine from day #1 of development. They did the opposite and questioned the approval process. WTF? But hey, stuff like the crying nurse commercial was money well spent. May of even resulted in more people meandering out and about with their underwear mask “saving” people.
Are you discounting herd immunity?
 

John74

Well-known member
Are you discounting herd immunity?
No, not at all. Masks and social distancing have always been a stopgap response. And maybe not even a good one. Immunity through a combination of natural progression and vaccine, or simply living with it and getting sick once a year, are the only way to move forward once a virus gets out of containment and is too robust to die out on its own.
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
The approval process was done by career scientists with a neutral oversight board and may be the most critical scientific breakthrough in a century. The exact quotes from Newsome and Cuomo can be found all over the web. Leaders of over 50-million citizens and leaders of hard hit states. They were not going to take the federal government’s evaluator agencies findings and they were going to form there own agencies to approve. Why? Did they have evidence of evaluators not doing their job? Have you heard a peep from any whistleblower since that the process wasn’t on the full up-and-up? Nope. Because Trump was going to take credit and win the election? That’s a far cry from disrupting an impartial analysis. Pure political noise from people who you said were above that. Guess what, the seeds of doubt they sewed with no firm basis killed people and are killing people today. They are no better than any other garden variety slug.
Trump’s guys is all the proof anyone would need to be suspicious. Skills and competency were never big with Trump when choosing people for any government assignment. Everything you said was a ridiculous reach. No one with any sense would expect any kind of competent, objective evaluation from anyone connected to the Trump administration.
 

John74

Well-known member
Trump’s guys is all the proof anyone would need to be suspicious. Skills and competency were never big with Trump when choosing people for any government assignment. Everything you said was a ridiculous reach. No one with any sense would expect any kind of competent, objective evaluation from anyone connected to the Trump administration.
But Trump’s guys had nothing to do with the approval. It was existing government agencies with a neutral oversight committee. Dr. Fauci was in his position years before Trump ever decided to enter politics. And to say the actual scientists that were responsible for the process could be driven by political motives is an insult. Again, I will ask, has a single whistleblower come forward and highlight any undue pressure to lie or cut corners?

It’s a ridiculous argument. Maybe one of the most ridiculous in the whole year long debate. Looking back, there are quotes from Biden, Harris, Newsome, and Cuomo that call into question the safety of the vaccine due to Trump. Why? Because the president was a blow-hard and kept saying how great and wonderful the vaccine was going to be? Because he kept gloating that it could be here by Election Day? And then you have the gall to say no Democratics ever questioned the vaccine’s safety? GMAFB. And notice, I did put Trump first on my list of chuckleheads. He should have never used the vaccine as an election tool. But I guess wrongness in your mind is only one direction.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
But Trump’s guys had nothing to do with the approval. It was existing government agencies with a neutral oversight committee. Dr. Fauci was in his position years before Trump ever decided to enter politics. And to say the actual scientists that were responsible for the process could be driven by political motives is an insult. Again, I will ask, has a single whistleblower come forward and highlight any undue pressure to lie or cut corners?

It’s a ridiculous argument. Maybe one of the most ridiculous in the whole year long debate. Looking back, there are quotes from Biden, Harris, Newsome, and Cuomo that call into question the safety of the vaccine due to Trump. Why? Because the president was a blow-hard and kept saying how great and wonderful the vaccine was going to be? Because he kept gloating that it could be here by Election Day? And then you have the gall to say no Democratics ever questioned the vaccine’s safety? GMAFB. And notice, I did put Trump first on my list of chuckleheads. He should have never used the vaccine as an election tool. But I guess wrongness in your mind is only one direction.
I think he's equating "cutting corners" with the easing of unnecessary and burdensome regulations.

He also ignores the key role that the Trump administrations commitment to underwrite production scale-up costs played in the quick turnaround here.
 

John74

Well-known member
I think he's equating "cutting corners" with the easing of unnecessary and burdensome regulations.

He also ignores the key role that the Trump administrations commitment to underwrite production scale-up costs played in the quick turnaround here.
No, he is picking and choosing the science he believes in based off of his political views. The CDC says to wear a mask, but Trump hates it, well they are right. The career FDA scientists approved a vaccine that Trump had his hand in and will make him look good, well they are probably crooked and the dems that questioned it are heroes. See, science is politics and politics is science. It will be really interesting a year from now to see how they spin it when vials of vaccine doses are sitting in the shelves and a large percentage of the population are still saying “stick it”.
 

TrueEagle

Well-known member
No, not at all. Masks and social distancing have always been a stopgap response. And maybe not even a good one. Immunity through a combination of natural progression and vaccine, or simply living with it and getting sick once a year, are the only way to move forward once a virus gets out of containment and is too robust to die out on its own.
Over 500,000 dead and your suggesting we give herd immunity a try w/o masks, etc. How many more dead would that have led to?
No, he is picking and choosing the science he believes in based off of his political views. The CDC says to wear a mask, but Trump hates it, well they are right. The career FDA scientists approved a vaccine that Trump had his hand in and will make him look good, well they are probably crooked and the dems that questioned it are heroes. See, science is politics and politics is science. It will be really interesting a year from now to see how they spin it when vials of vaccine doses are sitting in the shelves and a large percentage of the population are still saying “stick it”.
You really would consider anything Trump said that would contradict Fauci, or any other scientist? Like I said earlier, keep shooting off your mouth. You’re at risk for looking like one dumb MFer. But, you’re probably used to that. That statement applies to several of you.
 
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