High School Football Rules Misconceptions (originally posted in 2019)

BleedPurple13 said:
How is this rule supposed to be applied? I know a team who does not do a full huddle but only QB, RB and the line. They broke with two backs before the other realized he needed off the field. He ran straight to the sideline and the team was flagged for illegal substitution.
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A replaced player is required to leave the field within three seconds of being notified that he's being replaced......

Once the officials notice the number of players leaving do not match the amount entering they are using their voices.... i.e., "somebody's got to go"..... This allows for a potentially confused (we are talking high school kids) player to leave the game without penalty. If that 12th (or more) doesn't leave in that timely fashion, a foul for illegal substitution has occurred.
 
eastisbest said:
2:54:30, What penalty was called?
Bene - Walsh
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Looked like a personal foul for a late hit. Receiver's knee was down a split second before the extra defender propelled himself to clean up the tackle. I had to slow it down to 1/2 speed to see that the receiver was already down. Like the commentators, I didn't see in regular speed that the receiver's knee had touched the ground. That's why I'm not an official.

Did the officials who contribute to this thread see a different infraction?
 
thavoice said:
A lot of differences in pass interference.....

**No 5 yard rule for pass inteferance
**All plays are considered runs until a pass is thrown,
***A defensive player must avoid contact with a receiver who is no longer a potential blocker. So a
receiver is a potential blocker until there is a pass. A defender can contact an offensive receiver
until the ball is thrown.
***PI is only a penalty in the area the ball is thrown.
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First time in this thread. Clarification on Pass Interference is something I was looking for. Our receivers are being held (often times by the Jersey) as they are try to run pass routes. Sometimes a DB will tackle the receiver in mid route but nothing is ever called unless the ball is thrown. The QB can’t find open receivers because they are all being grabbed. I guess this is legal and if so, why doesn’t every team just tackle the receivers?
Also, is targeting the receivers head with the crown of the helmet legal in high school? If not, is there any repercussions for just ignoring it during a game?
 
Pickeringtonsports said:
First time in this thread. Clarification on Pass Interference is something I was looking for. Our receivers are being held (often times by the Jersey) as they are try to run pass routes. Sometimes a DB will tackle the receiver in mid route but nothing is ever called unless the ball is thrown. The QB can’t find open receivers because they are all being grabbed. I guess this is legal and if so, why doesn’t every team just tackle the receivers?
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Since the ball was not thrown (or was in the air), we cannot have pass interference. What we do have however is holding on the defense.
Pickeringtonsports said:
Also, is targeting the receivers head with the crown of the helmet legal in high school?
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The rune book definition of targeting is......

"Targeting is an act by any player who takes aim and initiates contact against an opponent above the shoulders with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow or shoulders."
Pickeringtonsports said:
If not, is there any repercussions for just ignoring it during a game?
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Not sure what you are asking here......
 
AllSports12 said:
Dead Ball Personal Foul.
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Is the ball considered "dead" when the knee hits or when the whistle blows and if the play isn't dead, would it still have been a personal foul? The timing on this one is close to call and video and audio tracks can be off a hair anyhow but I'm wondering in general.
 
eastisbest said:
Is the ball considered "dead" when the knee hits or when the whistle blows and if the play isn't dead, would it still have been a personal foul? The timing on this one is close to call and video and audio tracks can be off a hair anyhow but I'm wondering in general.
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A basic football fundamental is....

"a game official's whistle seldom kills the ball, it is already dead by rule"

Add that to Rule 4-2-2a .....

The ball becomes dead and the down has ended:
a) When a runner goes out of bounds, is held so his forward progress is stopped or allows any part of his person other than hand or foot to touch the ground.

Therefore, once his knee hits the ground, the ball is dead.
 
AllSports12 said:
Since the ball was not thrown (or was in the air), we cannot have pass interference. What we do have however is holding on the defense.

The rune book definition of targeting is......

"Targeting is an act by any player who takes aim and initiates contact against an opponent above the shoulders with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow or shoulders."

Not sure what you are asking here......
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Defensive holding hasn’t been called once this year. TE and WR getting held and/or tackled on most pass plays. I review every play on Hudl multiple times and it’s very easy to see.

If a ref looks right at a player who gets hit in the head by another player and doesn’t even throw a flag, is there any accountability for the ref such as suspension or extra training? I can post a video of exactly what I’m talking about.
 
AllSports12 said:
A basic football fundamental is....

"a game official's whistle seldom kills the ball, it is already dead by rule"

Add that to Rule 4-2-2a .....

The ball becomes dead and the down has ended:
a) When a runner goes out of bounds, is held so his forward progress is stopped or allows any part of his person other than hand or foot to touch the ground.

Therefore, once his knee hits the ground, the ball is dead.
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I think that would surprise a lot of fans. I think most understand it is the players' responsibility to know where the sideline is. But the other two, I always thought that a ref call signaled to the teams with the whistle.

Basically it means it is the defensive players' responsibility to determine the play is dead in all cases, not the refs'. Accurate interpretation?
 
Pickeringtonsports said:
Defensive holding hasn’t been called once this year. TE and WR getting held and/or tackled on most pass plays. I review every play on Hudl multiple times and it’s very easy to see.

If a ref looks right at a player who gets hit in the head by another player and doesn’t even throw a flag, is there any accountability for the ref such as suspension or extra training? I can post a video of exactly what I’m talking about.
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How can a video possibly show what the ref was looking at? A video might show the general direction the official was looking, but you cannot tell if he was looking at what was right in front of him or 50 feet beyond. If you think you could see both at the same time you have no idea.
 
Pickeringtonsports said:
Defensive holding hasn’t been called once this year. TE and WR getting held and/or tackled on most pass plays. I review every play on Hudl multiple times and it’s very easy to see.

If a ref looks right at a player who gets hit in the head by another player and doesn’t even throw a flag, is there any accountability for the ref such as suspension or extra training? I can post a video of exactly what I’m talking about.
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Really? The WR was tackled on most pass plays?
 
Pickeringtonsports said:
Defensive holding hasn’t been called once this year. TE and WR getting held and/or tackled on most pass plays. I review every play on Hudl multiple times and it’s very easy to see.
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Can't help you with that. All I can do is tell you what the rule is.
Pickeringtonsports said:
If a ref looks right at a player who gets hit in the head by another player and doesn’t even throw a flag, is there any accountability for the ref such as suspension or extra training? I can post a video of exactly what I’m talking about.
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Suspend an official for simply missing a call?

There'd be none left........

If things are as egregious as you claim, have your coach send the video to the assigner or in the case of the alleged targeting, the OHSAA.
 
AllSports12 said:
Can't help you with that. All I can do is tell you what the rule is.

Suspend an official for simply missing a call?

There's be none left.
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The play that I am referring to was a running play. The only way not to see it would be if no ref watched the tackle. Maybe they don’t watch the actual tackle but if they did, there is no way to miss it. There were several head scratchers in this particular game.
There really isn’t a need to be defensive. I understand refs miss calls all the time and I don’t worry about it. But the crew that worked the Pickerington v Massillon game needs to be evaluated.
 
eastisbest said:
I think that would surprise a lot of fans. I think most understand it is the players' responsibility to know where the sideline is. But the other two, I always thought that a ref call signaled to the teams with the whistle.

Basically it means it is the defensive players' responsibility to determine the play is dead in all cases, not the refs'. Accurate interpretation?
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Spot on

It's why I cringe when I hear "play to the whistle"
 
Pickeringtonsports said:
The play that I am referring to was a running play. The only way not to see it would be if no ref watched the tackle. Maybe they don’t watch the actual tackle but if they did, there is no way to miss it. There were several head scratchers in this particular game.
There really isn’t a need to be defensive. I understand refs miss calls all the time and I don’t worry about it. But the crew that worked the Pickerington v Massillon game needs to be evaluated.
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If the crew was as bad as you purport, there is nothing stopping either coach or athletic director from sending plays into the league assigner and/or the OHSAA. Heck, there is nothing stopping you from doing so, although you might not get a response or the answer you’re hoping for.

The only one being defensive is you. The film does not lie. If calls were missed, the film will show it, and no assigner worth his salt is going to defend a crew that makes an obvious mistake on film. If the film doesn’t show a missed call, then you either need a better camera or the coach needs to pick his spots better.
 
Pickeringtonsports said:
The play that I am referring to was a running play. The only way not to see it would be if no ref watched the tackle. Maybe they don’t watch the actual tackle but if they did, there is no way to miss it. There were several head scratchers in this particular game.
There really isn’t a need to be defensive. I understand refs miss calls all the time and I don’t worry about it. But the crew that worked the Pickerington v Massillon game needs to be evaluated.
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Nothing defensive at all....

Just a matter of fact response.
 
Had incident where there was false start in the Waverly Johnstown game where the ball was snapped but flagged for false start and was a fumble and was recovered. I thought it was just the 5 yard penalty and retain possession but johnstown recovered the fumble and was awarded possession
 
Burreaux said:
Had incident where there was false start in the Waverly Johnstown game where the ball was snapped but flagged for false start and was a fumble and was recovered. I thought it was just the 5 yard penalty and retain possession but johnstown recovered the fumble and was awarded possession
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Are you sure it was a false start, or rather an illegal formation? They have the same signal, but the latter is a live ball foul.
 
Burreaux said:
Had incident where there was false start in the Waverly Johnstown game where the ball was snapped but flagged for false start and was a fumble and was recovered. I thought it was just the 5 yard penalty and retain possession but johnstown recovered the fumble and was awarded possession
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A false start is a dead ball foul. Nothing can happen, other than a personal, unsporting, or flagrant foul after the false start.

If the crew allowed the fumble to stand after a false start, then they messed up....

If the foul was for an illegal formation, that's a live ball foul and the penalty can be declined, allowing for the fumble recovery and the change of possession.
 
Pickeringtonsports said:
I guess none of the 3 refs noticed. Lol
Check out this video!
https://www.hudl.com/v/2Fgx9R
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Terrible angle to determine for sure.

The R can't see it unless he has Xray vision
The wing has to see through a number of players
The best look may be the U...... and we don't know the angle

What it looks like, isn't always what it is.

That said... if it indeed was targeting and they missed it...... They missed it. We use good video throughout the year to learn from our and our colleague's mistakes.
 
AllSports12 said:
Terrible angle to determine for sure.

The R can't see it unless he has Xray vision
The wing has to see through a number of players
The best look may be the U...... and we don't know the angle

What it looks like, isn't always what it is.

That said... if it indeed was targeting and they missed it...... They missed it. We use good video throughout the year to learn from our and our colleague's mistakes.
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OK
 
Pickeringtonsports said:
I guess none of the 3 refs noticed. Lol
Check out this video!
https://www.hudl.com/v/2Fgx9R
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Incorrect no-call.

Worthy of the coach sending to the OHSAA? Yes. It’s a safety foul that we can’t miss. Also looks like unsportsmanlike conduct by the defender which wasn’t flagged either. Can’t let a player get away with targeting and taunting on the same play, but it’s easy to criticize behind a computer screen.

Suspension worthy? Give me a break. There have been worse misses than that at the Power 5 level that don’t result in a suspension. The difference is those guys have replay to bail them out.
 
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