High School Football Rules Misconceptions (originally posted in 2019)

AllSports12 said:
Hurdling is a personal foul, not an unsportsmanlike conduct foul. (UNS fouls count as one of the two that results in an automatic ejection)
Click to expand...
My apologies. It's been 5 years since that play occurred. I'm sure the officials signaled it correctly, and I'm remembering their signal incorrectly. It was 15 yards, and I was one of few on my side that was aware that the act was an infraction and that the ensuing penalty flag was thrown due to that act.
 
Last edited:
Raylan_Givens said:
The hurdling one was a bone of contention for opponents when Ethan Wright was piling up yards for Manchester. Dude was a stud, but not sure I saw a game where he didn't hurdle someone.
Click to expand...
If a defender has feet on the ground, it is a penalty to attempt to hurdle said defender. Then again, the refs at Manchester games can't make a proper ruling when the kicking team attempts to advance a successful onside kick attempt. :eek:
 
Mr. Slippery said:
If a defender has feet on the ground, it is a penalty to attempt to hurdle said defender. Then again, the refs at Manchester games can't make a proper ruling when the kicking team attempts to advance a successful onside kick attempt. :eek:
Click to expand...
Just to clarify....

"Hurdling is an attempt by a player to jump (hurdle) with one or both feet or knees foremost over an opponent who is contacting the ground with no part of his body except one or both feet."

In other words, if the player has only one or two feet are flat on the ground, it is illegal to attempt to hurdle.
If that player has one or two feet flat on the ground as well as a hand, knee....etc..... it is legal to attempt to hurdle.
 
TriangleMan said:
I always enjoy revisiting this post.

For Volleyball, documentation is available for rule comparisons between NCAA, USAV, and NFHS (https://pavo.org/Portals/0/docs/2020_RuleComparison_NCAA-NFHS-USAV_FINAL.pdf)

Is something like this readily available for football?
Click to expand...
The NFHS published this last year.... It does not include the NFL. Please note, these do not cover all the nuances of the rules, but it is a good guide depicting the differences between NFHS and NCAA Football Rules.

 
Mr. Slippery said:
A few seasons earlier, I saw my school's fans and coaches going berserk when 1 of the team's offensive players earned an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for hurdling a defender. They'd spent too much time watching Peyton Hillis on Sundays a couple years earlier.
Click to expand...
4BBBFBA7-0FAA-42B4-94D7-FAD21CDFB651.jpeg

And I always chuckle thinking back to Benedictine’s 2014 state title run when we got away with this one in the regional championship. To rub salt in the wound for Bay this picture was on the front page of the Plain Dealer Sports page the next morning.
 
FreeFromGreen said:
I will die on the hill that the holding penalty is arbitrarily too punitive. 18 yards for holding in the backfield is ridiculous. Why oh why can't the penalty be 10 yards from the line of scrimmage the way God intended it to be :)
Click to expand...
Yes - the two worst (and practically inexplicable) departures in high school from college/pros is this one and the fact that almost no defensive fouls are automatic first downs. Obviously, some departures make sense (for high school, I really like the rules on kicking - particularly on field goal attempts (touchback if it crosses the goal line)). But these two make ZERO sense.
 
Mr. Slippery said:
The best one I saw last season was:
Punt returner from Team A attempted to corral a punt at his 10 that was rolling toward him. He muffed it, it rolled into the end zone, and Team B "recovered" it. Everyone initially expected it to be ruled a TD for Team B. The back judge also signaled TD. After conference by the officials, it was ruled a touchback. It was only then that I remembered the ball is dead as soon as it crosses the goal line on a kick when no possession was established in the field of play. There were plenty of parents from Team B yelling "you need to learn the rules" at the officials.
Click to expand...
Glad the crew got it right, but shame on the back judge for putting the crew in a tough spot to begin with. It is pounded into the heads of HS officials that “a kick is a kick is a kick.” There’s no excuse to get that call wrong on a varsity field.
 
Just.here said:
View attachment 20166
And I always chuckle thinking back to Benedictine’s 2014 state title run when we got away with this one in the regional championship. To rub salt in the wound for Bay this picture was on the front page of the Plain Dealer Sports page the next morning.
Click to expand...
I don’t like to make judgments about a crew’s decision-making based on a still frame, but if the action was clearly illegal and ignored by the game officials, in a regional final nonetheless – shame on them.
 
Mr. Slippery said:
My apologies. It's been 5 years since that play occurred. I'm sure the officials signaled it correctly, and I'm remembering their signal incorrectly. It was 15 yards, and I was one of few on my side that was aware that the act was an infraction and that the ensuing penalty flag was thrown due to that act.
Click to expand...
Just remember UNS is verbal. Personal foul is physical.
 
zebrastripes said:
Glad the crew got it right, but shame on the back judge for putting the crew in a tough spot to begin with. It is pounded into the heads of HS officials that “a kick is a kick is a kick.” There’s no excuse to get that call wrong on a varsity field.
Click to expand...
I watched that muffed punt turned touchback play again earlier today. Sure enough, the back judge signaled it as a TD. None of the other officials in the picture did.

I also re-watched the play where a receiver was called for hurdling. The infraction was clear, but the videographer didn't stay with the play long enough to get the referee's signal. Regardless, it was 15 yards. However, it was hilarious to watch the entourage of fans who had sideline passes hopping around all hyped up when the infraction occurred, not realizing that it was a penalty.
 
Last edited:
Mr. Slippery said:
I watched that muffed punt turned touchback play again earlier today. Sure enough, the back judge signaled it as a TD. None of the other officials in the picture did.

I also re-watched the play where a receiver was called for hurdling. The infraction was clear, but the videographer didn't stay with the play long enough to get the referee's signal. Regardless, it was 15 yards. However, it was hilarious to watch the entourage of fans who had sideline passes hopping around all hyped up when the infraction occurred, not realizing that it was a penalty.
Click to expand...

I worked a JH game several years ago when the ball carrier hurdled a player. The crowd loved it, the coaches loved it then they saw 3 flags on the field (R,U,LJ). Coach though it was ok since he'd seen it on tv many times. I explained to him it was illegal under National Federation rules the OHSAA uses...
 
Mr. Slippery said:
The infraction was clear, but the videographer didn't stay with the play long enough to get the referee's signal. Regardless, it was 15 yards.
Click to expand...
Just because the penalty yardage was correct doesn't make everything ok. (*** DISCLAIMER, this is assuming that the foul was announced as an Unsportsmanlike Conduct Foul) An Unsportsmanlike Conduct Foul (UNS) carries additional sanctions that a Personal Foul does not..... Any accumulation of 2 UNS fouls results in an automatic ejection from the game. Personal Fouls (PF) do not.

So, let's say this player was amped up early in the game an does something silly that earns him an UNS...... Later in the game this same player, after correcting his ways and being an absolute model for sporting behavior, hurdles a player. If the officials incorrectly assess an UNS foul for this hurdle, that player is now ejected from the game.

This is why it's imperative for officials to know the classification of fouls and their associated penalties. Fans can be wrong til the cows come home because there's no direct effect to them being wrong....

If an official screws this up, it can cause a player to suffer an unjust departure from the game.

We (officials) simply cannot be wrong here.
 
Last edited:
Tom.OH said:
I worked a JH game several years ago when the ball carrier hurdled a player. The crowd loved it, the coaches loved it then they saw 3 flags on the field (R,U,LJ). Coach though it was ok since he'd seen it on tv many times. I explained to him it was illegal under National Federation rules the OHSAA uses...
Click to expand...
The player just needs to know that if they do the hurdle, they can't land on their feet and keep running right? If you land on anything but your feet, it's not a foul (but you are also down, of course).
 
L Hand said:
The player just needs to know that if they do the hurdle, they can't land on their feet and keep running right? If you land on anything but your feet, it's not a foul (but you are also down, of course).
Click to expand...
No. How they land is irrelevant.

What is relevant is the manner that they attempt to avoid the tackler.... Here's the definition of a hurdle...

Rule 2-22 -- Hurdling
"Hurdling is an attempt by a player to jump (hurdle) with one or both feet or knees foremost over an opponent who is contacting the ground with no part of his body except one or both feet"
 
AllSports12 said:
No. How they land is irrelevant.

What is relevant is the manner that they attempt to avoid the tackler.... Here's the definition of a hurdle...

Rule 2-22 -- Hurdling
"Hurdling is an attempt by a player to jump (hurdle) with one or both feet or knees foremost over an opponent who is contacting the ground with no part of his body except one or both feet"
Click to expand...
Read it wrong - but now looking at the Benedictine picture, I don’t think that is a foul. Neither the feet or knees of the Benedictine hurdler are “foremost” over the opponent.
 
L Hand said:
Read it wrong - but now looking at the Benedictine picture, I don’t think that is a foul. Neither the feet or knees of the Benedictine hurdler are “foremost” over the opponent.
Click to expand...
Could be a jump and "split" (legal) or could have been a hurdle with one leg out front....

As zebrastripes noted prior, there a reason why we don't make rulings on still pics ;)
 
Tuned in to the Ursuline Hartley game. Flag gets thrown at the beginning of the play. Runner gets tackled to force 4th down. We check the flag and it’s a procedure penalty as expected. So of course our glorious announcers tell us. That it’s a false start penalty and it will be declined. Welcome back to football season.

It’s week 1 for everybody.
 
Just.here said:
Tuned in to the Ursuline Hartley game. Flag gets thrown at the beginning of the play. Runner gets tackled to force 4th down. We check the flag and it’s a procedure penalty as expected. So of course our glorious announcers tell us. That it’s a false start penalty and it will be declined. Welcome back to football season.

It’s week 1 for everybody.
Click to expand...
As much grief as I give PA announcers - I've heard mic'd up high school referees incorrectly announce fouls as "illegal procedure" and "offsides." And unlike announcers, we are PAID to know the correct terminology.
 
AllSports12 said:
Just because the penalty yardage was correct doesn't make everything ok. (*** DISCLAIMER, this is assuming that the foul was announced as an Unsportsmanlike Conduct Foul) An Unsportsmanlike Conduct Foul (UNS) carries additional sanctions that a Personal Foul does not..... Any accumulation of 2 UNS fouls results in an automatic ejection from the game. Personal Fouls (PF) do not.

So, let's say this player was amped up early in the game an does something silly that earns him an UNS...... Later in the game this same player, after correcting his ways and being an absolute model for sporting behavior, hurdles a player. If the officials incorrectly assess an UNS foul for this hurdle, that player is now ejected from the game.

This is why it's imperative for officials to know the classification of fouls and their associated penalties. Fans can be wrong til the cows come home because there's no direct effect to them being wrong....

If an official screws this up, it can cause a player to suffer an unjust departure from the game.

We (officials) simply cannot be wrong here.
Click to expand...
It's also a major pet peeve of Bruce Maurer and Beau Rugg when PF and UNS are mixed up. As it should be - it's not a hard rule to get right.
 
Zebra, this is a little off subject but still involve officiating. I was talking to a buddy last year during a football game (he refs football and basketball), he was explaining to me that shortage of officials for football is extremely bad and basically there is growing divide of officiating crews that are really good or really bad. He also said that any new officials that are turning down opportunities to do varsity games because they would be joining terrible crews and do not want to be associated with that crew, thus another terrible new official joins these existing crappy crews perpetuating the cycle of terrible officiating crews. Mean while the new quality officials just continue to do lower level games and buy time until a opening is available on a respected crew. Is there any truth to this? I will say that officiating in the last 10 years seems to be either really good or really bad!
 
lightspeed84 said:
Zebra, this is a little off subject but still involve officiating. I was talking to a buddy last year during a football game (he refs football and basketball), he was explaining to me that shortage of officials for football is extremely bad and basically there is growing divide of officiating crews that are really good or really bad. He also said that any new officials that are turning down opportunities to do varsity games because they would be joining terrible crews and do not want to be associated with that crew, thus another terrible new official joins these existing crappy crews perpetuating the cycle of terrible officiating crews. Mean while the new quality officials just continue to do lower level games and buy time until a opening is available on a respected crew. Is there any truth to this? I will say that officiating in the last 10 years seems to be either really good or really bad!
Click to expand...
There is some truth to this and unfortunately no easy solution other than getting rid of set crews (not going to happen anytime soon). Officials get comfortable and complacent working with their friends who they've been with for 20 years and unfortunately some don't strive to get better.

In the "Gold Book" era there really is no practical reason to have crews anymore other than camaraderie and familiarity and because "it's always been done that way" - the days of each crew doing its own thing are long gone especially if you want to sniff the postseason. Don't get me wrong, I like my crew and am glad I get to work with them every Friday. But I've lived in states where I work with different crewmates every week - and we got along just fine. And at the college level - even if you work with the same guys all season, the assigner is the one who puts the crews together. You don't get to choose who you work with like high school.

We've seen crews go away in basketball for the most part, especially in the metropolitan conferences. And believe me - it's for the better. Still see some assigners assigning "by crew" particularly in rural leagues, but not that many.

I would caution that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder - some coaches don't like certain crews that other coaches have no issues with. Assigners are no different.
 
lightspeed84 said:
Zebra, this is a little off subject but still involve officiating. I was talking to a buddy last year during a football game (he refs football and basketball), he was explaining to me that shortage of officials for football is extremely bad and basically there is growing divide of officiating crews that are really good or really bad. He also said that any new officials that are turning down opportunities to do varsity games because they would be joining terrible crews and do not want to be associated with that crew, thus another terrible new official joins these existing crappy crews perpetuating the cycle of terrible officiating crews. Mean while the new quality officials just continue to do lower level games and buy time until a opening is available on a respected crew. Is there any truth to this? I will say that officiating in the last 10 years seems to be either really good or really bad!
Click to expand...
Most of the good young ones who have yet to hook up with a crew, are subbing every week(s) for different crews. Can't begrudge anyone for not wanting to be a part of a crew that's 1) not a "good crew" or 2) not with people they want to be around. (Basketball is different in this respect as occasionally you are with someone who you personally do not care for, but it's only one night.... not ten weeks.)

The problem lies with the dwindling numbers of good veteran officials as well as the lack of retention of newer officials.
Both will continue...... Things will get waaaaaayyyyyy worse before they get better.
 
Runner gets tackled by the facemask in the red zone on third down last night. Half the distance to the goal but not enough to reach the stakes so we replay third down. Offense’s fans and head coach all clamoring for an “automatic first down!!!!!!”

The season is here!
 
zebrastripes said:
Runner gets tackled by the facemask in the red zone on third down last night. Half the distance to the goal but not enough to reach the stakes so we replay third down. Offense’s fans and head coach all clamoring for an “automatic first down!!!!!!”

The season is here!
Click to expand...
I was in a booth last night. Home team had 3rd and 20+ and away team got a PI. You should have heard the home side when not only did they not get the ball at the spot but they also did not get an automatic first down.
 
All the issues about dwindling number of officials is a huge problem. Set crews is also a problem. I also see assigners as a problem. They take the best crews and always assign them to the "best teams". Rotate the good guys around to everyone or split up the best crews and have them work with younger officials to teach them how to be a great official.

I've coached at both "good" and "bad" football schools and at the "good" ones we would have the same 2 crews all year. One year I think we had a crew 7 games. While they were an excellent crew, we definitely used it to our advantage knowing what types of flags would be called and what certain pet peeves were.
 
cincifbfan said:
All the issues about dwindling number of officials is a huge problem. Set crews is also a problem. I also see assigners as a problem. They take the best crews and always assign them to the "best teams". Rotate the good guys around to everyone or split up the best crews and have them work with younger officials to teach them how to be a great official.

I've coached at both "good" and "bad" football schools and at the "good" ones we would have the same 2 crews all year. One year I think we had a crew 7 games. While they were an excellent crew, we definitely used it to our advantage knowing what types of flags would be called and what certain pet peeves were.
Click to expand...
One problem with the way assigning is done in Ohio is games being assigned way too far in advance. It's a product of each league having its own assigner and "competing" for the best crews/officials, but I still don't like it. I've lived in a state where I get my games about 2-3 weeks in advance, a month at most, and I much prefer that. It's particularly problematic in basketball because I work college as well as high school - I end up having to give back a significant portion of my high school schedule because I got those games a year in advance, whereas I get my college games in the fall immediately preceding the season.

Having the same crew 7 out of 10 games is a major problem. If an assigner believes he has only two crews that are worthy of the "best" games in his league, he needs to figure out why he can't get more good crews to work for him (could also be a good-ol-boys problem). Otherwise he might not keep his job very long...
 
AllSports12 said:
My response has always been....

"yes, sir... they did"
Click to expand...
How is this rule supposed to be applied? I know a team who does not do a full huddle but only QB, RB and the line. They broke with two backs before the other realized he needed off the field. He ran straight to the sideline and the team was flagged for illegal substitution.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top