D1 State semifinals - 11-6-18

K-1122

New member
Well the difference is that a player intentionally corks a bat to gain an advantage. Playing with 12 players in soccer could be an accident. Having had some interaction with the Strongsville coach, I think he's a class act and I doubt he'd do something like this intentionally. Especially given just how good the Strongsville program is, I can't see them thinking they needed to cheat to win that match.
You may be missing the point that this may have been intentional (corked bar)?
I have heard no explanation on this thread on how the substitution “error” occurred. Maybe since there is now an investigation there is also silence from the offender.
 
Well the difference is that a player intentionally corks a bat to gain an advantage. Playing with 12 players in soccer could be an accident. Having had some interaction with the Strongsville coach, I think he's a class act and I doubt he'd do something like this intentionally. Especially given just how good the Strongsville program is, I can't see them thinking they needed to cheat to win that match.
So I would then make the comparison of a player using another players corked bat “not knowing” it was corked. Ignorance is no excuse. Rules are there for a reason.
 

K-1122

New member
OK, I have two daughters that play ‘02’ and ‘05’ club soccer, as well as school soccer, neither at the level of these two D1 schools. I asked both of them, why do you pass off a penny during substitutions, both said, to help the refs monitor the subbing and to ensure 1 in, 1 out. Then I asked, would you know almost immediately when you were doubled up at a position, both...yes.

I figure one team knew they had twelve players the entire time and it obviously was not Twinsburg
 

bucksman

Moderator
The AR and "4th" on the side of the substitution should have watched to see that two players came off for the goalie and field player that came on, so should have the referee.

Should a team have been caught playing with too many players, the player that is the "12th player" would be given a caution. In the NFHS book, this can both be found within rule 3 and rule 12.
 

K-1122

New member
And a yellow card on the bench as a penalty for a substitution ‘Error’ like this is like getting a direct free kick frim your own box...
Whoopeeeeee! Nice equalizer.
The burg may got screwed within the rules I guess.
On to next season and live and learn.
Even if you’ve (some coaches?) have learned a way to work the system???
 

K-1122

New member
Well I just don't think it's a good analogy. A bat doesn't become corked by accident. Playing with 12 players on the field may very well be an accident. But in fairness I wasn't at the game and don't know how this may have happened.

Is there an investigation happening?
Not the author of the corked bat analogy, sorry.
Yes, heard there is an inquiry by the OHSAA...which will lead to a dead end.
 
Saw on twitter, so take it for what that's worth, that Strongsville allegedly played with 12 vs. Medina in 2017 as well. If true, it would seem this was more intentional than accidental...regardless, they may or may not have still ended up at the state finals but thankfully Beavercreek is making sure they don't go home state champs at least (was 4-0 at the half).
 
Interesting story

https://fox8.com/2018/11/09/twinsburg-not-pursuing-lawsuit-after-controversial-girls-soccer-game-against-strongsville/

“STRONGSVILLE, Ohio -- The Strongsville High School girls soccer team is playing for the state championship Friday night, but there is a cloud of controversy hanging over the Lady Mustangs. Parents of the players that lost the game, the Twinsburg Lady Tigers, believe they were cheated out of a chance to win, but the school has decided it will not fight the outcome of the game.

The referees did not notice it, but in the second half of the state semi-final soccer game between Strongsville and Twinsburg, Strongville sent an extra player into the game after an injury time out, and for more than six minutes, the lady mustangs had 12 players on the field to 11 for Twinsburg.

Strongsville won the game to advance to the state championship. After watching video of the game, Twinsburg lodged a complaint with the state athletic association, but the district was careful not accuse their opponent of cheating.

Strongsville said the use of the extra player was a mistake and there was no malicious intent.

Soccer controversy after Strongsville girls team wins semi-finals with extra player on field
When Twinsburg learned that the state would not force Strongsville to forfeit the game, the district did consider taking legal action, but the athletic staff vetoed the idea, when they learned that if Twinsburg lost in court, the state could strip the Tigers of their district and regional championships.

During a September 2017 game between Strongsville and arch rival Medina, the game was stopped in the second half, when it was discovered that the Lady Mustangs had 12 twelve players on the field. The Medina coach, who indicated he has never used an extra player by accident or on purpose in 18 years of coaching, told FOX 8, "the referee removed the extra player, issued a yellow card and the game was restarted. We chalked it up as an oversight."

The Twinsburg School District is now hoping the state athletic association will examine whether the extra player on the pitch for Strongsville in at least two games is a coincidence or a strategy.”
 

winbypin

Well-known member
What sanctions do you want against the team that mistakenly played with 12? Forfeit next season? No post season? Pick up trash along the highway?

The game is over and in the books. Nothing is going to happen. Move on. It's a waste of your energy.
 

K-1122

New member
Last post was in reference to the State final score, no conciliation for Twinsburg...

And wow, this has happened before...thanks to the previous posters information

Maybe they need to try every other year instead of back to back?
 

winbypin

Well-known member
OK, I have two daughters that play ‘02’ and ‘05’ club soccer, as well as school soccer, neither at the level of these two D1 schools. I asked both of them, why do you pass off a penny during substitutions, both said, to help the refs monitor the subbing and to ensure 1 in, 1 out. Then I asked, would you know almost immediately when you were doubled up at a position, both...yes.

I figure one team knew they had twelve players the entire time and it obviously was not Twinsburg
So? I have seen games where a team had 12 a period of time by accident. My anecdotal evidence cancels yours.
 

K-1122

New member
What sanctions do you want against the team that mistakenly played with 12? Forfeit next season? No post season? Pick up trash along the highway?



The game is over and in the books. Nothing is going to happen. Move on. It's a waste of your energy.


I think most have agreed that it’s ‘in the books’ but at least let them about what was most likely a crappy system to ensure as best of a fair game as possible start to finish.

Apprentices to Belicheck need not be in the same sport and rules are always one step behind.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

K-1122

New member
So? I have seen games where a team had 12 a period of time by accident. My anecdotal evidence cancels yours.


If you want it to?

I just don’t see a high, high level team like Strongsville (players, maybe not the coach if you all think he’s innocent), notice that they are doubled up at a position for that period of time.

A lower lever, green organization where chaos unfortunately is what describes their offense and defensive sets most of the time, yes I could see them going long periods of time with who knows, maybe even two extra before noticing. And heck, depending on how bad the other team may be winning by, they may not care.

I think the disparity you see in girls soccer top to bottom in the state is so great that when you get to the final four, discussions about what may ha occurred in the regular season among two teams that one or neither may leave the sectionals is irrelevant.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

winbypin

Well-known member
If you want it to?

I just don’t see a high, high level team like Strongsville (players, maybe not the coach if you all think he’s innocent), notice that they are doubled up at a position for that period of time.

A lower lever, green organization where chaos unfortunately is what describes their offense and defensive sets most of the time, yes I could see them going long periods of time with who knows, maybe even two extra before noticing. And heck, depending on how bad the other team may be winning by, they may not care.

I think the disparity you see in girls soccer top to bottom in the state is so great that when you get to the final four, discussions about what may ha occurred in the regular season among two teams that one or neither may leave the sectionals is irrelevant.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No matter the level of experience or the intelligence of the players, coaches, or refs they are all human. And as we all know, humans are prone to mistakes.
 

K-1122

New member
No matter the level of experience or the intelligence of the players, coaches, or refs they are all human. And as we all know, humans are prone to mistakes.
I agree entirely with your comment and with the thought (actually a right, at least some still believe this) that we are innocent until proven guilty, but with that at least comes the right to inject that there is a possibility otherwise. And to describe the likelihood that this was a ‘play’ on the current system and rules is still in play.

Mistake, unlikely, but plausible
 

atthemike

New member
As I mentioned earlier...

https://fox8.com/2018/11/09/twinsburg-not-pursuing-lawsuit-after-controversial-girls-soccer-game-against-strongsville/

“STRONGSVILLE, Ohio -- The Strongsville High School girls soccer team is playing for the state championship Friday night, but there is a cloud of controversy hanging over the Lady Mustangs. Parents of the players that lost the game, the Twinsburg Lady Tigers, believe they were cheated out of a chance to win, but the school has decided it will not fight the outcome of the game.

The referees did not notice it, but in the second half of the state semi-final soccer game between Strongsville and Twinsburg, Strongville sent an extra player into the game after an injury time out, and for more than six minutes, the lady mustangs had 12 players on the field to 11 for Twinsburg.

Strongsville won the game to advance to the state championship. After watching video of the game, Twinsburg lodged a complaint with the state athletic association, but the district was careful not accuse their opponent of cheating.

Strongsville said the use of the extra player was a mistake and there was no malicious intent.

Soccer controversy after Strongsville girls team wins semi-finals with extra player on field
When Twinsburg learned that the state would not force Strongsville to forfeit the game, the district did consider taking legal action, but the athletic staff vetoed the idea, when they learned that if Twinsburg lost in court, the state could strip the Tigers of their district and regional championships.

During a September 2017 game between Strongsville and arch rival Medina, the game was stopped in the second half, when it was discovered that the Lady Mustangs had 12 twelve players on the field. The Medina coach, who indicated he has never used an extra player by accident or on purpose in 18 years of coaching, told FOX 8, "the referee removed the extra player, issued a yellow card and the game was restarted. We chalked it up as an oversight."

The Twinsburg School District is now hoping the state athletic association will examine whether the extra player on the pitch for Strongsville in at least two games is a coincidence or a strategy.”

In my earlier post. The entire game Strongsville's subs carried something orange in their hands to give to the player exiting the field. In the incident at 10:31 remaining #23 enters the game (the 12th player) with NOTHING in her hands, thus no one comes off the field.
 
In my earlier post. The entire game Strongsville's subs carried something orange in their hands to give to the player exiting the field. In the incident at 10:31 remaining #23 enters the game (the 12th player) with NOTHING in her hands, thus no one comes off the field.
And your point?
 

K-1122

New member
And your point?
I am by no means trying to respond to what the point is.

But...it would be considered unusual for this to occur after what was stated as to how all previous substitutions had occurred, coupled with the unanswered question (see previous posts about the lack of an explanation), of who was the sub going in for and why was it considered ok to just go in as an extra player if you were not replacing someone?
 

winbypin

Well-known member
I agree entirely with your comment and with the thought (actually a right, at least some still believe this) that we are innocent until proven guilty, but with that at least comes the right to inject that there is a possibility otherwise. And to describe the likelihood that this was a ‘play’ on the current system and rules is still in play.

Mistake, unlikely, but plausible
Actually a mistake is most likely. Because even if it was the intent of the coach to cheat the refs made a clear mistake by losing track of the subs entering and exiting the game. Unless you are suggesting the refs were in on the cheating as well.
 

K-1122

New member
Actually a mistake is most likely. Because even if it was the intent of the coach to cheat the refs made a clear mistake by losing track of the subs entering and exiting the game. Unless you are suggesting the refs were in on the cheating as well.
Not at all suggesting the refs were in on it.
If it was an intentional act there would be three outcomes
-caught immediately, corrected by the refs and game moved on
-caught during play some time later, yellow card
-not caught at all during play
Like I said earlier, no real penalty if caught and you don’t need the refs help.
 

atthemike

New member
Hello!

And your point?
Sorry you can't figure that out?

This whole forum stems from the point that human beings (businessmen, politicians and athletes just to name the obvious) will lie, cheat, steal to get what they want. One time, I can see a mistake, BUT TWICE!? I don't see other schools or programs coming forward claiming this type of error, and I'm sure they have tapes and videos for review! Teams that have nothing to play for apparently play by the rules (for now). Yet in this circumstance TWICE they've been caught with NO reparation for their actions (until now)?

Truth is from now on, that program will be watched with more eyes than they've ever seen. Shame for the kids...but if they are on the up and up, they have nothing to worry about?
 

winbypin

Well-known member
Lol. You people are funny. The entire girls season is now over. Are you going to let it eat at you until next season? Let it go. It is healthier for you.
 
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