I agree … I would not have just given him away … but my suggestion was to trade him for a player or two that would who were more ready to contribute to winning this year … I am not just trading him because I don’t like him … just IMO he is several years away from being a force in the playoffs … I think Mitchell can be … that timeline didn’t match … that was the problem … if you want Mitchell to stay around … the Cavs needed to surround him with others on the same timeline … plus, right now, the Cavs are best when Allen & Mobley are not on the floor at the same time … all this is mute now … because IMO the Cavs will not make a long playoff run … and Mitchell will ask for a trade in the summer … so now they should keep Mobley and Garland , build around them and find others on or near the same timeline as them.
Cavs 2023-24
- Thread starter y2h
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nwwarrior09
Well-known member
I haven't checked in here in a while, but 100% this.
I had no clue that trading Mobley was a serious thought it some fan circles. It's udderly ridiculous. He was all-defensive 1st team in his second year, and though he's missed some time this year, in years 2 and 3 has averaged 16 points and 9-9.5 rebounds. And he doesn't turn 23 for a few more months. I doubt he's a top-10 player five years from now, but it seems very likely to me he's a 20+ and 10 guy that's 1st/2nd all-defensive team every year, and a top 4-5 defender among bigs in terms of impact and versatility.
The value/upside he has in terms of future potential/continued growth is a lot higher than actual players that he'd return in a trade...which would probably be one above-average starter or an average starter and a good rotational player.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
Would probably be lucky to get a Tyler Herro level player as a return for Evan Mobley in a trade.
An actual offer from another team probably looks more like Duncan Robinson and Jaime Jacquez with maybe a second round pick. Disgusting.
An actual offer from another team probably looks more like Duncan Robinson and Jaime Jacquez with maybe a second round pick. Disgusting.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
Yes! He is very productive in ways a lot of people do not look at.
Yesterday's game for example. Some fans say "12 rebounds is nice but only 12 points". Look closer and you see 4 blocks, 3 steals, which is incredible. Also, he only took 10 shots (6th most on the team) to get those 12 points - highly efficient. 2-4 from three point range.
Kid is a great complimentary player for Donovan and will keep getting better.
I am really confused … Mobley is so good that he is untouchable … yet the best you could get for him is Tyler Hero or Duncan Robinson & Jaime Jacques … does not seem to match up to me.
… the problem (IMO) is that if they don’t win some in this year’s playoffs … there is a good chance Mitchell is gone.
I don’t doubt this … but I am not sure the Cavs (and Mitchell) have 5 years to wait.
I don’t believe this … but if it is true … then they shouldn’t have traded him … I just believe he is worth much more than you are suggesting … and trading him for players that are ready to help the Cavs win this year would have been smart … to me it was all about keeping
Mitchell … an early playoff exit could signal trouble on that front … and to me Mitchell is an elite player and the Cavs should have done everything possible to keep him … even if that meant trading Mobley
All that said … the point is moot now … win the next two games and get home court advantage in playoffs … win the first round series and be highly competitive in the second round … then hopefully Mitchell resigns
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nwwarrior09
Well-known member
I don't think you're thinking about how hard it would be to trade him for value without it being part of either a mega blockbuster deal or selling him off for draft picks.
He has a cheap rookie deal, and just about any veteran of substance makes substantially more than him. Herro makes $20+ million more than him. Just about every team in the league is laughably over the soft salary cap, and the exchanged contracts in a trade have to roughly equal each other. Trading just Mobley...they could take back maybe $11-12 million in salary. Which does not get you much.
They are extremely incentivized to keep him. Just about the only way he could be moved is if they moved several pieces in a deal with either a lot of moving parts or where they acquire a max contract type player.
First off, I would not have traded Mobley alone … they would have thrown in others (Strus, Niang, Okoro, Thompson, Wade, Jerome) as salary fillers … for example the trade I proposed was Mobley & Strus for Markkanen & Fontecchio … the Markkanen & Allen combo (IMO) fits much better (spaces the floor) which is what was happening when Mobley was out (18-2) and Fontecchio was similar to Strus or could they could have started Okoro and had him coming off the bench … both were 40% three point shooters on 14 three point shots per game … to me it was all about a better fit … the Cavs were playing their best basketball when they were spacing the floor with just Allen in the game … they were doing it with Wade at the 4 spot … Markkanen would have been a big up grade … finally it was all about getting a farther in the playoffs this year and getting Mitchell to stay … I just have a feeling that Mitchell is gone if they don’t make a strong run in the playoffs this year … to me Mitchell was the guy I wanted to keep … even if that meant getting rid of Mobley.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
Markkanen does exactly one thing better than Mobley - shoot from outside - while weakening the defense. With big minutes he gets 8 Reb, 2 Asst, 0.5 blocks, 0.5 steals per game. With fewer minutes Mobley pulls 9.5 Reb, 3 Asst, 1 steal and 1.5 blocks per game.
Your earlier post said that you wanted "prime time players" ready to help now with a deep playoff run. Markkanen? Really? He's not even as good as Mobley now. He just shoots it well.
Markkanen 23.2 points per game … you seemed to leave that out in your comparison … Mobley shoots as well as Markkanen, please … he shoots one unguarded three a game … because no one guards him out there … Markkanen shoots 8 a game … and that is being guarded
The Cavs best basketball was when Wade was at PF … why? … because people had to guard him out at the three point line … opened up space for Mitchell (and Allen) in the middle … sometimes teams are better, not because of skill, but fit … and yes, Markkanen would have given the Cavs a better chance this year in the playoffs.
We will see how things play out … but if the Cavs flame out … and Mitchell ask out … this team is barely a play-in team at best. I hope I am wrong … and it is not that I don’t see value in Mobley … I just see more value in Mitchell and wanted to do everything to keep him … waiting on Mobley to develop may just cost them their real difference maker.
The worst teams have a leading scorer. Someone has to take the shots. Lauri is a good player, but he gets to take a lot of shots because he’s the best player on a bad team. Put Mobley on the Jazz in his place and Mobley is a 20/10 guy we all wish we had on the Cavs.
Mr Air ball was being taken out on offense tonight … not ready for prime time … just like last year’s playoffs
PS … Mitchell is a difference maker … Allen was big tonight … Garland is starting to get back to himself … still dribbles too much.
Mobley was 6-7 shooting tonight.
Almost all bunnies or alley-oops … can’t make a jumper or create his own shot … and air balled the three when it was needed at the end of game … taken out when on offense at the end of games … difference makers are not subbed out … not ready prime time … Allen’s big night a result of not having to play with Mobley clogging things up for him … they just play better when Allen & Mobley not on the floor at the same time.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
Not many, if any, stretch 4s that shoot well that are worth a damn in terms of defensive versatility and rim protection. Maybe Holmgren??
On a team that's actually any good, usually those guys do zero outside of standing in the corners offensively or being used to pick and pop. Put Markkanen back on the Cavs, and playing with Mitchell, Garland, and even to a lesser extent LeVert, and he'd be doing that with his point production plummeting back to the 15-16 ppg he averaged when he was on the Cavs before being traded to Utah. While doing less of everything else you get with Mobley.
While I agree his point production would probably go down, but his efficiency would go up (IMO) … as would Allen’s, Mitchell, and Garland … it is not an accident that Allen was highly productive when Mobley was out injured … or against Indiana would Mobley sat out most of the second half with foul trouble … having a shooting threat on the floor at the 4 spaces the floor … which allows the three named (and probably LaVert as well)to flourish … to me it is not about individual numbers or talent … it is about team success … as good as Mobley is and is going to be … he is just not a good fit (right now) with this team (especially with Allen) … as a guy who watches nearly every minute of every game (I know I have no life) … I have just noticed that the Cavs are much more effective when Allen and Mobley are not on the floor together … they have played their best basketball when Wade or Niang was paired with them … and Markkanen is significantly better than both of those two … it is moot point now … and to me not worth continuing this discussion … sorry I have kept it going this long … just hope the Cavs win today and at least the first round of the playoffs … and Mitchell signs the extension this summer.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
I did not say Mobley shoots as well as Markanen learn to read.
Wildcat97
Well-known member
So, this applies to Bucks too right? Since they lost by 30 today and all
y2h
Well-known member
You'll have to beat them eventually. Get home court throughout short of Boston and avoid the best team in basketball until the conference final. If you are throwing games because of the 7 seed you have no business being in the playoffs.
brian1227
Well-known member
Injuries.and dame stunk.
I agree. It’s disgusting to throw away a game that would have given you a division title and possible two seed in the playoffs. To throw a game out of fear of a possible first round opponent is BS. The fans pay money to watch the team TRY to win, not go through the motions. I find it difficult to root for an organization with this mindset. Soft play and fear of opponents. Puzzies.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
Passing on seizing the best playoff route for the best alleged first round matchup would indicate to me that J.B. is quite satisfied if they just win a playoff series. No given if they get crushed by Boston in the second round.
J.B. deserves to be fired if they're bounced in the first two rounds IMO.
J.B. deserves to be fired if they're bounced in the first two rounds IMO.
brian1227
Well-known member
Would had 3 seed. And division title. JB is awful.
I agree, Brian. The chance to hang a division title banner in the rafters doesn’t come often for this organization. Disgraceful they chose not to grab it.
If it wasn’t for Mitchell probably leaving if it was to happen, I would actually root for Orlando to win just to put JB out of his misery.