Ask the ref?

bucksman

Moderator
Let's not get bogged down in minutiae here over written narrative, since w/o a visual play to assess, discussion around deliberate play vs. deflection is going to be really hard to have people on the same page. Give people that visual clip, I'm guessing the opinion/interpretation of the rule will reach closer to a convergence.

The key takeaway(s) from the few posts: the rules (NFHS) and laws of the game (FIFA) both have this deliberate play vs. deflection concept in them; and then what the considerations, responsibilities, and mechanics are from an AR and REF standpoint in applying the rule/law given an in-game scenario.
 

SteelyMike

New member
Should have been offside.

The whole "deliberate play on the ball" is supposed to be in reference to a player actually trying to possess or control the ball in a specific direction (to one's self, teammate, etc.). The "deliberate play" is not a defending slide or tackle.

In the circumstance that @coolguy was mentioning about a headed attempt, this same example was used by a referee assignor/coordinator/educator to a group of coaches I was with. A headed ball should be a controllable ball, especially one that allows for a defender to be stationary and jump for a challenge. An attacking team is not supposed to be punished because a defending team is poor at controlling a ball. An attacker can still gain an unfair advantage by being in an offside position with the "new" offside application.
If it was a pass to a teammate in an offside position, and the defender outstretched his leg and contacted the ball, then it is not offside. The rules don't change according to a players skill level. What if we were to apply your logic to fouls?
 
If it was a pass to a teammate in an offside position, and the defender outstretched his leg and contacted the ball, then it is not offside. The rules don't change according to a players skill level. What if we were to apply your logic to fouls?
Apparently you had a hard time in what is "deliberately playing" and what is not when I clearly differentiated between the two.

But, funny you try to compare the two as "deliberate" is really only referenced with fouls when it is a deliberate handball, deliberate delaying of a restart, deliberately leaving the field of play, or deliberately being kicked to the goalkeeper...Nowhere does it have to be a deliberate charges, deliberate jumps at, deliberate push, deliberate trip, etc. So, the logic does fit. Fouls aren't necessarily tied to skill BUT playing the game is.

Even more, the rules DO change according to a player's skill level. What may be considered a foul in high school or youth club possibly isn't a foul beyond that level. Obviously it is due to player safety first and foremost, but it's also dealing with higher skilled players and a different pace of the game that allows for more physicality in the game to exist. Even the most basic of calls to make (improper throw-ins) are more regularly called at the youth level than the higher levels. Yes, there are definitely more improper throw-ins to call, but the next levels past youth definitely have illegal throw-ins that aren't called because referees sometimes don't mess with the trivial calls.
 
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