Ask the ref?

OhioBobcatFan06

Well-known member
At the higher levels of the game, I'd imagine we see a lot more challenges in the box from smarter players knowing they only get a yellow and not a red.

...

Regarding the discussion above about losing hs referees, more frustrating for me than the pay with arbiter is all the bureaucracy involved in re-certification. I'm not particularly interested in attending local OHSAA meetings for rules on games that won't even count towards my advancement to higher USSF grades.

I've noticed more and more "non-soccer" guys refereeing local youth games with me lately. One said he started with football, then wrestling, finally soccer. Had another guy with me in the next game who was basketball then soccer. The good thing about these types of referees is they almost always have strong on-field demeanor/leadership and can keep control of the game. The downside with them is their positioning usually is not as good. The very best referees are the guys who can anticipate direction of play so they are always in position to make the right call. ]That's something that comes with an understanding of the game rather than an understanding of the rulebook. Along with that, you have to be in shape to run when you need to get into position to make the call.
I think these multi-sport OHSAA referees are going to become more and more of the norm as the OHSAA keeps making it more difficult for younger referees to certify and lowering the incentives of certifying.
 

bucksman

Moderator
OBF06,

If you're talking about the DOGSO change (removal of penalty/red, instead only yellow for certain ones in the box), it should be noted that if the challenge fits the "serious foul play" bucket, it's still a send off per the LOTG revision. It's also still a send off for a hold, push, or pull; along with for failure to play the ball, or no chance to play the ball.
 

OhioBobcatFan06

Well-known member
OBF06,

If you're talking about the DOGSO change (removal of penalty/red, instead only yellow for certain ones in the box), it should be noted that if the challenge fits the "serious foul play" bucket, it's still a send off per the LOTG revision. It's also still a send off for a hold, push, or pull; along with for failure to play the ball, or no chance to play the ball.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Your clairification was a very good explanation for those who are not familiar. What I was meaning more specifically, I would expect more aggressive slide tackles where defenders go for the ball. Yeah, you're still risking a penalty but avoiding a red in that situation is huge. It depends on the situation of the game, but more often than not I'd rather slide a guy just inside the edge of the box and risk a penalty rather than slide a guy outside the box and risk a direct free kick and a send off.

I understand the rational behind the change, I just think this rule has more consequences for play than most rule changes do.
 

bucksman

Moderator
OBF06,

I do not THINK the revised DOGSO interpretation was put into the high school rule book for 2017-18. We'll find out for when the materials come out from Columbus. Certainly will make for an interesting scholastic season if that is the case.
 

BacknBlack

New member
PK do over

From a State Cup game this weekend. Team was awarded a PK. Ref gave instructions to goalie, all non shooters and handed the ball to the shooter and stepped out of the 6 yrd. box. Shooter placed ball and struck the kick. Goalie cleanly saved the kick, moving to the right and catching the shot. Ref waived off the try and instructed the shooter to retake the kick. Shooter retook the kick, shooting to the left, and scored. After the game ref stated that the re-kick was awarded because he had not yet blown the whistle to direct the shooter to take the original kick? Was this the correct application of the rules?
 

Upper 90

New member
The rules clearly state the ref must signal before the PK can be taken. In the refs eyes he did not signal the penalty taker for the PK thus do over, the play never happened regardless of outcome. What a bad dilemma to get into, the players have to know you go on my whistle, period. The tables could have been turned in that he could have made the PK then had to do it all over again.
 

OhioBobcatFan06

Well-known member
Agree, right call but terrible situation to be in. I don't recall having a player go before my whistle on a PK. Happens to me all the time on direct kicks despite always reminding them "wait for my whistle." Gotta get into proper position.
 

winbypin

Active member
The rules clearly state the ref must signal before the PK can be taken. In the refs eyes he did not signal the penalty taker for the PK thus do over, the play never happened regardless of outcome. What a bad dilemma to get into, the players have to know you go on my whistle, period. The tables could have been turned in that he could have made the PK then had to do it all over again.
That happened to a player on my son's team. Placed the ball, kicked it, and scored. Only to have the ref wave it off because he didn't blow his whistle. Of course the keeper made the save on the second try.
 

BacknBlack

New member
Thanks for the feedback. Could the players taking the kick be carded for not waiting for the direction of the official? With no repercussions to the player taking the kick I may instruct all my strikers to take a kick early (before the whistle) to get in the goalies head. The % of converted kicks is higher than missed attempts thus this is a huge advantage to the shooter.
 

coolguy

New member
Interesting situation because "delaying the restart" is a cautionable offense and the safest answer for you is if this is how the referee interprets what he sees from the PK shooter.

One would like to think that the keeper knows he/she is waiting to hear the whistle and may not react to a premature shot on goal.

The law missing from the LOTG that referees should acknowledge is common sense. Be clear with your instructions and if a premature shot is taken (even if perceived as deliberate), use your voice rather than an instant card to tell the shooter that won't be tolerated again by anyone.
 

Philos_Finest

New member
Thanks for the feedback. Could the players taking the kick be carded for not waiting for the direction of the official? With no repercussions to the player taking the kick I may instruct all my strikers to take a kick early (before the whistle) to get in the goalies head. The % of converted kicks is higher than missed attempts thus this is a huge advantage to the shooter.
I could be wrong but I think the laws state that it has to happen multiple times to warrant a card.
 

winbypin

Active member
Thanks for the feedback. Could the players taking the kick be carded for not waiting for the direction of the official? With no repercussions to the player taking the kick I may instruct all my strikers to take a kick early (before the whistle) to get in the goalies head. The % of converted kicks is higher than missed attempts thus this is a huge advantage to the shooter.
The first thing I thought of when I read this response was that would be a bush league move on your part as a coach.

The second thing I thought of is the game that important to you to teach a stunt like that?
 

BacknBlack

New member
I agree this would be "bush league" and considered a "stunt". The point I'm making is that the law/rules have a huge hole that could be exploited if one had the character(or lack thereof) to do so. Thanks for your concern, however not my style.
 
Last edited:

winbypin

Active member
I agree this would be "bush league" and considered a "stunt". The point I'm making is that the law/rules have a huge hole that could be exploited if one had the character(or lack thereof) to do so. Thanks for your concern, however not my style.
Whew. OK. I thought you were going to be "one of those guys" that would take advantage of this huge hole. I agree, some people with the wrong character, could teach and do this. I can think of one in my local area for sure that would stoop to something like this.

Thankfully, PK's happen somewhat infrequently in any given game limiting someone the opportunity to do this. PK's are already an intense moment in a game. Having to redo one for whatever reason only makes it worse.
 

sig4969

Member
FC Cin game this Sat

Did you see FC Cin this Sat.

Was the first goal offside ?

If so how bad did the lineman blow it ????
 

sig4969

Member
FC games

FC cincinnati second Goal ...


I am talking about the pass from player 10 to player 20
not player 20 pass to player 11
Did the Lineman see this pass ?
 

EastYoungstown

Active member
brought this up in a ref class the other day.... the 6 second rule. I realize this is probably the least called rule.

Does it get called?

Have you called it?

What was the situation that made you call it?
 

Andy27

New member
Since ask the ref isn't in the girls forum I'll ask here:

Last night in the Hoban/Walsh game as play was going on a Hoban girl was down back by the goal. Ref finally noticed it and stopped play/the clock as Hoban kicked the ball.

Once she was off the field, he restarted it as a free kick for Walsh where the last kick had taken place. Was this the correct way to do it? I thought it was supposed to be a drop ball.
 

sru

New member
Walsh/Hoban

Correct restart should of been a indirect free kick for the team that had clear an obvious procession. That is NFHS rule.
 

Andy27

New member
Ok thanks. Ball had just been kicked and was in the air when he realized she was down and stopped the clock.
 

MJ_SoccerRef

New member
brought this up in a ref class the other day.... the 6 second rule. I realize this is probably the least called rule.

Does it get called?

Have you called it?

What was the situation that made you call it?
Typically when the Keeper is cutting it VERY close, I (and I think many others) will call out “Play it, Keep!!”. I will then alert their Captain that the Keeper is cutting the 6 second Rule VERY close & bring it to their Keeper’s attention (if I d/n have that opportunity). I might also alert that player’s HC at the half, if they’ve established a pattern, etc. as well. Personally, I have never called that, nor seen it called by a partner in any game I’ve worked.......in large part because after that initial ‘heads up’, the Keeper adjusts their play......which is 'the point’.


Same thing with Keepers punting or throwing the ball very close to the 18....unless it is a blatant / obvious case of them handling clearly outside the PA......
 

Andy27

New member
This just happened in the Cleveland State/Oakland Women's game: csu forward has a breakaway, Oakland defender catches up to her inside the box and knocks her down before she can shoot.

CR awards a pk and red card to the defender. PK is taken and is good. Then the CR went over to the fourth official and it was changed to a yellow.

Isn't a denied shot on goal opportunity in the box an automatic red?

That's how it was explained to me last fall when the Western Michigan goalie tried to tackle the Kent State forward and was given a red.
 

bucksman

Moderator
Not sure if college implemented the FIFA rule change on DOGSO in the penalty area or not. If college did adopt the change, DOGSO in the penalty area is a YELLOW unless it meets one of the exceptions - the foul was a red card foul anyway, there was no attempt to play the ball, it was a push/hold/pull.
 

Andy27

New member
Not sure if college implemented the FIFA rule change on DOGSO in the penalty area or not. If college did adopt the change, DOGSO in the penalty area is a YELLOW unless it meets one of the exceptions - the foul was a red card foul anyway, there was no attempt to play the ball, it was a push/hold/pull.
Girl came up from behind and pushed her in the back while not attempting to play the ball.
 
Was just told this story of the Marshall-Southern Mississippi women's college soccer game. You need to know college soccer substitution rules to answer this one. Southern Mississippi player #20 Zuazua started the 2nd half. Subbed out at 61:20 and returned at 69:22. She then subbed out again at 82:36. She subbed back in again (3rd time) at 85:37 and at 87:54 assisted on the tying goal for Southern Mississippi.

The Marshall coaches immediately challenged the goal as it was assisted by an "illegal" player. The 4th official was useless because he should have never allowed her on the field to begin with. The center referee showed #20 a yellow card and removed her from the field and let the goal stand and a kickoff by Marshall happened next.

Forgetting the obvious that nobody should have paid the 4th official, did the center referee do the correct thing?

(I have no idea if the game was played under protest or any other consequences but Marshall did score the winner in OT).
 
.
Top