Ask the Ref?

AllSports12

Moderator
So I could write the names down on a piece of paper, somehow mark the starters, and not be in violation of the rules?
The rule only requires that list, including the 5 starters, to be submitted to the official scorer. There's no provision for the format. Over the years I've spent many minutes at the table waiting for the OC to transfer the information from a list (or other book) to his/her book.
 

Bertha

Active member
player throws the ball ... nobody there to get it for either team .... balls bounces and the rolls on the court... before ball goes out of bounds same player who threw ball runs over and picks it up

Is that allowed ?
Is it a travel ?
Can player get ball after it goes certain distance ?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
player throws the ball ... nobody there to get it for either team .... balls bounces and the rolls on the court... before ball goes out of bounds same player who threw ball runs over and picks it up

Is that allowed ?
Is it a travel ?
Can player get ball after it goes certain distance ?
Need some more information....

Is the player that threw the ball in bounds?
If yes, was he holding the ball before he threw it?
 

bucksman

Moderator
Need some more information....

Is the player that threw the ball in bounds?
If yes, was he holding the ball before he threw it?
I'm going to guess the intention of the guestion is related to a pass that enters the ball in bounds from out of bounds (i.e. inbounds entry pass), though Bertha I'm sure would be willing to correct/clarify.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
player throws the ball ... nobody there to get it for either team .... balls bounces and the rolls on the court... before ball goes out of bounds same player who threw ball runs over and picks it up

Is that allowed ?
Is it a travel ?
Can player get ball after it goes certain distance ?
Need some more information....

Is the player that threw the ball in bounds?
If yes, was he holding the ball before he threw it?
He was dribbling then passed ball
Ok.....

The old "self pass" question. A popular myth that comes up 5-6 times a year among fans and officials.

First, there is no such thing as a self pass. A pass is defined as "movement of the ball caused by a player who throws, bats or rolls the ball to another player". That doesn't happen here.

What we have here is a player dribbling.
- He ends his dribble by catching or causing the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.
- He throws the ball to the floor before he lifts his pivot foot (start of a dribble) and then becomes the first to touch the ball after it hits the floor.

Since this happened after he ended his dribble, this is an illegal dribble as soon as he touched the ball.(Otherwise known as a double dribble.)

Had he not already begun a dribble when the threw the ball to the floor, then he would have two legal options....
1) pick up the ball (start and and of a dribble)
2) bat the ball to the floor with one hand on continue to dribble
 

14Red

Well-known member
"Free Basketball" is rarely celebrated among athletic directors, coaches, and offficials..... particularly at the JV level and below. ;)
Unless you have a kid playing. This is where many schools miss the boat. The purpose of high school sports is for kids to play. Not win, not get letters, not achieve. Kids want to play. It's the one thing that's nearly unanimous among parents and kids. Yes, many try to cheapen, shorten or even eliminate the "lower" levels.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Unless you have a kid playing. This is where many schools miss the boat. The purpose of high school sports is for kids to play. Not win, not get letters, not achieve. Kids want to play. It's the one thing that's nearly unanimous among parents and kids. Yes, many try to cheapen, shorten or even eliminate the "lower" levels.
For the final time on this subject.....

There is no concerted/coordinated/collective effort from officials and/or administrators to prevent a game from going into overtime. The discussion about overtime is nothing more than friendly banter between/among that group of people.

Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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serpico

Well-known member
Team A leads by 4 with 7 seconds left, and Team B is out of timeouts. Team B takes the ball down the court and makes a 3 pointer with 5 seconds left. To avoid getting fouled, can all five players on Team A stand out of bounds? If so, and if Team B were to foul them, would it automatically be considered an intentional foul?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Team A leads by 4 with 7 seconds left, and Team B is out of timeouts. Team B takes the ball down the court and makes a 3 pointer with 5 seconds left. To avoid getting fouled, can all five players on Team A stand out of bounds? If so, and if Team B were to foul them, would it automatically be considered an intentional foul?
Yes they could and by rule it would be an intentional foul.

This would also be an opportunity for an official to let the clock run so not to allow the defense to get this clock stopped. There is case book support for the official to do just exactly that in the case of B slapping the ball away with 5 or less seconds on the clock. (would be a delay of game warning or a technical foul if previously the team was warned for delay of game)

This could apply here as well. It would be very important for the official to make sure by not calling the foul, it does not escalate.
 

cchs1983

Well-known member
Any refs on here, I asked about the CCHS T late in the second quarter to a college ref and a high school ref and neither were sure if the T was the correct call. CCHS takes the court after a TO and inbound the ball with only 4 players. About 6 seconds go off the clock and the player who was checked in runs onto the court and receives a T. Anybody got this??
 

zebrastripes

Well-known member
Any refs on here, I asked about the CCHS T late in the second quarter to a college ref and a high school ref and neither were sure if the T was the correct call. CCHS takes the court after a TO and inbound the ball with only 4 players. About 6 seconds go off the clock and the player who was checked in runs onto the court and receives a T. Anybody got this??
It is a team technical foul for failure "to have all players return to the court at approximately the same time following a time-out or intermission." The technical foul should NOT be charged to the player who came on late - it is merely a team technical foul (like having six on the court when the ball is live).
 

AllSports12

Moderator
^^ Great feedback, appreciate that^^
This one is right out of the Case Book


10.2.5 SITUATION:
Following a charged time-out Team B is still with their coach on the sideline when the official sounds the whistle to indicate play will resume. Four players of B return to the court just in time to play defense as A1 attempts an unsuccessful three-pointer. B1 rebounds and throws a long pass to B5 who enters the court just in time to catch the pass.

RULING:
A technical foul is immediately charged to Team B for failing to have all players return to the court following a time-out or intermission. While it is true the entire team may be off the court while the procedure is being used, once a team responds, all players must enter the court at approximately the same time.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
And to muddy the waters a bit.....

If B or A has only four players on the floor after a lengthy substitution process involving multiple players, there is no penalty for the "fifth" player returning directly to the court after the ball has become live if that return wasn't deceitful or provided an unfair positioning advantage on the court.
 

cchs1983

Well-known member
And to muddy the waters a bit.....

If B or A has only four players on the floor after a lengthy substitution process involving multiple players, there is no penalty for the "fifth" player returning directly to the court after the ball has become live if that return wasn't deceitful or provided an unfair positioning advantage on the court
It was a TO with substitutions, muddy waters for sure.
 

Ericles

Active member
Yes they could and by rule it would be an intentional foul.

This would also be an opportunity for an official to let the clock run so not to allow the defense to get this clock stopped. There is case book support for the official to do just exactly that in the case of B slapping the ball away with 5 or less seconds on the clock. (would be a delay of game warning or a technical foul if previously the team was warned for delay of game)

This could apply here as well. It would be very important for the official to make sure by not calling the foul, it does not escalate.
Regarding delay of game, I had a situation a few years ago where the visiting team made a 3 and before the ball was inbounded, one of their players grabbed the ball and held it with her back turned to the inbounder to force a delay of game warning and stop the clock since they had no timeouts left. Could/should there have been a technical foul called for unsporting conduct? Could the officials have ignored the action and allowed the clock to continue to run without calling the warning? Could someone on the inbounding team have went up to the girl and yanked the ball out of her hands so that it could be inbounded.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Regarding delay of game, I had a situation a few years ago where the visiting team made a 3 and before the ball was inbounded, one of their players grabbed the ball and held it with her back turned to the inbounder to force a delay of game warning and stop the clock since they had no timeouts left. Could/should there have been a technical foul called for unsporting conduct? Could the officials have ignored the action and allowed the clock to continue to run without calling the warning? Could someone on the inbounding team have went up to the girl and yanked the ball out of her hands so that it could be inbounded.
Not only can a technical foul be assessed, it should be assessed....

Direct from the Case Book... (see the "comment")

9.2.10 SITUATION A:
A1 is out of bounds for a throw-in. B1 reaches through the boundary plane and knocks the ball out of A1’s hands. Team B has not been warned previously for a throw-in plane infraction.

RULING:
B1 is charged with a technical foul and it also results in the official having a team warning recorded and reported to the head coach.

COMMENT:
In situations with the clock running and five or less seconds left in the game, a throw-in plane violation or interfering with the ball following a goal should be ignored if its only purpose is to stop the clock. However, if the tactic in any way interferes with the thrower’s efforts to make a throw-in, a technical foul for delay shall be called even though no previous warning had been issued. In this situation, if the official stopped the clock and issued a team warning, it would allow the team to benefit from the tactic
 

Ericles

Active member
Not only can a technical foul be assessed, it should be assessed....

Direct from the Case Book... (see the "comment")

9.2.10 SITUATION A:
A1 is out of bounds for a throw-in. B1 reaches through the boundary plane and knocks the ball out of A1’s hands. Team B has not been warned previously for a throw-in plane infraction.

RULING:
B1 is charged with a technical foul and it also results in the official having a team warning recorded and reported to the head coach.

COMMENT:
In situations with the clock running and five or less seconds left in the game, a throw-in plane violation or interfering with the ball following a goal should be ignored if its only purpose is to stop the clock. However, if the tactic in any way interferes with the thrower’s efforts to make a throw-in, a technical foul for delay shall be called even though no previous warning had been issued. In this situation, if the official stopped the clock and issued a team warning, it would allow the team to benefit from the tactic
There was about 20 or so seconds left when this happened, not 5 or less. Does that matter?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
There was about 20 or so seconds left when this happened, not 5 or less. Does that matter?
With 5 or under and with the opponent ahead in the score, ignore it. Time will run out.

With over 5, hit them with a technical foul. We cannot allow a team to attempt to use a rule (delay of game warning) to gain an advantage unintended by rule.
 

cchs1983

Well-known member
Saturday, with about 12 seconds left team A scores to cut it to 4 and has no timeouts remaining. Team B as it tries to inbound, team A player reaches across and touches ball in team B players hand. Ref blows whistle and signals T. Ref huddles with other crew members and nothing happens and team B inbounds. Way to stop the clock for team A ref. What should of been the ruling?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Saturday, with about 12 seconds left team A scores to cut it to 4 and has no timeouts remaining. Team B as it tries to inbound, team A player reaches across and touches ball in team B players hand. Ref blows whistle and signals T. Ref huddles with other crew members and nothing happens and team B inbounds. Way to stop the clock for team A ref. What should of been the ruling?
By rule, anytime an opponent reaches through the throw-in plane and touches the ball, a Technical Foul is to be charge to the offending player. (if that player touches the thrower instead of the ball, it is an Intentional Foul)

Two free throws by any player(s) on B and B then is awarded a designated spot throw-in at the division line opposite the scorer's table.
 
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