Ask the Ref?

AllSports12

Moderator
That maybe technically correct, but if an official made that mistake and didn't make the correction he should be fired.
As presented, there is nothing to correct.

Firing a High School official for making this mistake is nonsense. His reputation among coaches and peers should dictate any action taken. (temporary loss of assignments, less/no future assignments...etc)

The mistake of giving the ball to the wrong team is less serious than making up a fix outside the rules.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
As presented, there is nothing to correct.

Firing a High School official for making this mistake is nonsense. His reputation among coaches and peers should dictate any action taken. (temporary loss of assignments, less/no future assignments...etc)

The mistake of giving the ball to the wrong team is less serious than making up a fix outside the rules.
This was a varsity crew. The snafu and “resolution” ended up not mattering in the end, but man this seemed poorly handled — beyond the pale — to the fans watching.
 

Zunardo

Well-known member
How often do schools have sudden death overtimes? Any NFHS reference? I though I saw an online mention that OHSAA has used it in tournament play the last few years.

Our boys JV game (Mid-State League) last night was tied after regulation. They played one regular OT period, game still tied, then the officials said they would play one sudden death "period" - no additional time-outs, first team to score wins. Everyone was a bit startled to hear this. We asked one of the officials about that afterward, he said each conference determined its use. I was curious how widespread it is in Ohio basketball, and if this something maybe Covid-related, or just something speed up games.
 

zebrastripes

Well-known member
How often do schools have sudden death overtimes? Any NFHS reference? I though I saw an online mention that OHSAA has used it in tournament play the last few years.

Our boys JV game (Mid-State League) last night was tied after regulation. They played one regular OT period, game still tied, then the officials said they would play one sudden death "period" - no additional time-outs, first team to score wins. Everyone was a bit startled to hear this. We asked one of the officials about that afterward, he said each conference determined its use. I was curious how widespread it is in Ohio basketball, and if this something maybe Covid-related, or just something speed up games.
Definitely not an OHSAA- or NFHS-sanctioned procedure. The OHSAA does not use it in tournament play.

Wouldn’t be the first time officials MSU (made “stuff” up). But I don’t work in that conference so perhaps they asked the OHSAA if they could use that procedure for this season.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
How often do schools have sudden death overtimes? Any NFHS reference? I though I saw an online mention that OHSAA has used it in tournament play the last few years.

Our boys JV game (Mid-State League) last night was tied after regulation. They played one regular OT period, game still tied, then the officials said they would play one sudden death "period" - no additional time-outs, first team to score wins. Everyone was a bit startled to hear this. We asked one of the officials about that afterward, he said each conference determined its use. I was curious how widespread it is in Ohio basketball, and if this something maybe Covid-related, or just something speed up games.
It’s a recent rule that came to the MSL and Ohio Capital Conference. The idea is to try and not have varsity games tipping off past 8pm.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
It’s a recent rule that came to the MSL and Ohio Capital Conference. The idea is to try and not have varsity games tipping off past 8pm.
I missed the JV part of the post...

Have been part of plenty of contests at JV and lower where the rules have been massaged for similar reasons.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
How often do schools have sudden death overtimes? Any NFHS reference? I though I saw an online mention that OHSAA has used it in tournament play the last few years.

Our boys JV game (Mid-State League) last night was tied after regulation. They played one regular OT period, game still tied, then the officials said they would play one sudden death "period" - no additional time-outs, first team to score wins. Everyone was a bit startled to hear this. We asked one of the officials about that afterward, he said each conference determined its use. I was curious how widespread it is in Ohio basketball, and if this something maybe Covid-related, or just something speed up games.
I think that is idiotic.
Plain idiotic.
Let them play a normal OT. It does hot happen often so let the kids play.
My goodness.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
"Free Basketball" is rarely celebrated among athletic directors, coaches, and offficials..... particularly at the JV level and below. ;)
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Be curious to see what you mean by that.
It's a running joke among officials when there is any overtime game, no matter the sport.

It's nothing more than another opportunity for officials to bust each others balls (or chops when we have female partners) about going overtime.
 

coltfan76

Active member
It's a running joke among officials when there is any overtime game, no matter the sport.

It's nothing more than another opportunity for officials to bust each others balls (or chops when we have female partners) about going overtime.
I must not get the joke.
 

CasualFan24

Active member
How does OHSAA view Pre-wrap? Seeing more and more girls and boys wearing pre-wrap around their head and the majority of what I see is rolled pre-wrap around the leg just below the knee. I have seen officials make kids take them off, and I have seen officials allow them to be worn even when the colors were not matching all the other stuff! What is proper? Let's say you have the visiting team wearing red uniforms and they are wearing white tights/wrist bands/head bands, and one of the kids has red pre-wrap around his leg just below the knee cap....whats the ruling? Is it/can it be considered medical?
 

zebrastripes

Well-known member
How does OHSAA view Pre-wrap? Seeing more and more girls and boys wearing pre-wrap around their head and the majority of what I see is rolled pre-wrap around the leg just below the knee. I have seen officials make kids take them off, and I have seen officials allow them to be worn even when the colors were not matching all the other stuff! What is proper? Let's say you have the visiting team wearing red uniforms and they are wearing white tights/wrist bands/head bands, and one of the kids has red pre-wrap around his leg just below the knee cap....whats the ruling? Is it/can it be considered medical?
If pre-wrap is worn as a headband it has to meet the color (white, black, beige, predominant jersey color AND matching everything else) and width (no wider than 3 inches) requirements. There was an NFHS interpretation about this a few years ago.

The rules don't specifically address pre-wrap worn for medical purposes in the way they address things like knee braces. When I see something like this I generally let it go and assume it's medical-related. In your hypothetical situation I'm likely letting it go. As far as I know the OHSAA has not addressed this either but @AllSports12 can correct me if I'm wrong.

As with many different rules, enforcement and interpretation will be dependent on the higher-ups' preferences. Some assigners are sticklers for "fashion police" rules, others do not want their officials getting involved. This leads to the inconsistency but more often than not officials will take whatever action will be supported by the person who assigned them the game.
 

CasualFan24

Active member
If pre-wrap is worn as a headband it has to meet the color (white, black, beige, predominant jersey color AND matching everything else) and width (no wider than 3 inches) requirements. There was an NFHS interpretation about this a few years ago.

The rules don't specifically address pre-wrap worn for medical purposes in the way they address things like knee braces. When I see something like this I generally let it go and assume it's medical-related. In your hypothetical situation I'm likely letting it go. As far as I know the OHSAA has not addressed this either but @AllSports12 can correct me if I'm wrong.

As with many different rules, enforcement and interpretation will be dependent on the higher-ups' preferences. Some assigners are sticklers for "fashion police" rules, others do not want their officials getting involved. This leads to the inconsistency but more often than not officials will take whatever action will be supported by the person who assigned them the game.
FYI @zebrastripes - The predominant jersey color requirement only applies to undershirts now. OHSAA will allow for the headbands, wristbands, tights, and all the other junk to be ANY color of the school as long as they all match each other! That way one color works for both home and away uniforms! That much I know.....but the pre-wrap thing is a much debated topic!
 

zebrastripes

Well-known member
FYI @zebrastripes - The predominant jersey color requirement only applies to undershirts now. OHSAA will allow for the headbands, wristbands, tights, and all the other junk to be ANY color of the school as long as they all match each other! That way one color works for both home and away uniforms! That much I know.....but the pre-wrap thing is a much debated topic!
News to me but it makes sense. No reason a team whose main color is blue should be able to wear blue shooting sleeves on the road but not at home. And one less thing officials have to get involved in.
 

Ericles

Active member
Here's a new one I experienced the other night.

Our girls hosted their first tournament game. The visiting team got a T before the game even started for not having their names in their scorebook at the 10 minute mark....except that they technically did. It didn't help that they didn't arrive at the school until around 6:25 for a 7:00 tip and held onto the scorebook for another 15 minutes or so. They gave me their book prior to the 10-minute mark, and I was able to copy down their names prior to then, but when the official came over to check and sign the books, their scorekeeper was still copying down our names - and they got T'd for it. I didn't even know it until about 5 minutes later. While I feel that they dropped the ball in arriving as late as they did, I never made an issue of because I've pressed for time between games before. This very well could have affected the outcome because the final margin was 3 points.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Here's a new one I experienced the other night.

Our girls hosted their first tournament game. The visiting team got a T before the game even started for not having their names in their scorebook at the 10 minute mark....except that they technically did. It didn't help that they didn't arrive at the school until around 6:25 for a 7:00 tip and held onto the scorebook for another 15 minutes or so. They gave me their book prior to the 10-minute mark, and I was able to copy down their names prior to then, but when the official came over to check and sign the books, their scorekeeper was still copying down our names - and they got T'd for it. I didn't even know it until about 5 minutes later. While I feel that they dropped the ball in arriving as late as they did, I never made an issue of because I've pressed for time between games before. This very well could have affected the outcome because the final margin was 3 points.
Ugh.....

Rule 10 - "Administrative Technical" states

A team shall not......

ART. 1 . . . Fail to supply the scorer with the name and number of each team member who may participate and designate the five starting players at least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time.

Please note the first 5 words of this rule....

fail to supply the scorer

Nothing in the rule requires the names to be in either book. What you describe here is not a violation of the rule.
 

Ericles

Active member
Ugh.....

Rule 10 - "Administrative Technical" states

A team shall not......

ART. 1 . . . Fail to supply the scorer with the name and number of each team member who may participate and designate the five starting players at least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time.

Please note the first 5 words of this rule....

fail to supply the scorer

Nothing in the rule requires the names to be in either book. What you describe here is not a violation of the rule.
So I could write the names down on a piece of paper, somehow mark the starters, and not be in violation of the rules?
 
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