Ask the Ref?

AllSports12

Moderator
Isnt there a rule on what you can wear under your uniform? I thought it had to match the main color of the uniform, but I've noticed that lot the case a lot this year. Tonight I saw a Fairfield player with black under his red uniform. I've seen white under dark colors as well.
There are specific rules with regards to uniforms. Unfortunately, many officials don't "Like" the rule and refuse to enforce them. Couple that approach with the fact that the OHSAA won't take a stand one way or another on the issue and you have a hodge podge of enforcement. In my opinion, ( which means absolutely nothing ;) )either enforce the rule as written by the NFHS just as states like North Carolina does (with full compliance) or issue an edict to each official advising them to ignore the NFHS rule and allow the teams and player to do as they wish. (watch what happens)

Anyway, here's the rule in the book....

- "Undershirts shall be a single solid color similar to the torso of the jersey and shall be hemmed and not have frayed or ragged edges. If the undershirt has sleeves, they shall be the same length"

- "Compression shorts were added the rule that covers sleeves, and tights. This addition will require the compression shorts to meet the color requirement outlined for all the items in that rule."

- "Arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower-leg sleeves, tights and compression shorts are permissible. The sleeves/tights and compression shorts shall be black, white, beige or the predominant color of the jersey and the same color sleeves/ tights worn by teammates. All sleeves/tights and compression shorts shall be the same solid color and must be the same color as any headband or wristband worn."

The penalty for the uniform violations is removal of a participating player or refusing entry to an entering player (substitute). The players may return once they are in compliance with the rule.
 

Philly_Cat

Well-known member
There are specific rules with regards to uniforms. Unfortunately, many officials don't "Like" the rule and refuse to enforce them. Couple that approach with the fact that the OHSAA won't take a stand one way or another on the issue and you have a hodge podge of enforcement. In my opinion, ( which means absolutely nothing ;) )either enforce the rule as written by the NFHS just as states like North Carolina does (with full compliance) or issue an edict to each official advising them to ignore the NFHS rule and allow the teams and player to do as they wish. (watch what happens)

Anyway, here's the rule in the book....

- "Undershirts shall be a single solid color similar to the torso of the jersey and shall be hemmed and not have frayed or ragged edges. If the undershirt has sleeves, they shall be the same length"

- "Compression shorts were added the rule that covers sleeves, and tights. This addition will require the compression shorts to meet the color requirement outlined for all the items in that rule."

- "Arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower-leg sleeves, tights and compression shorts are permissible. The sleeves/tights and compression shorts shall be black, white, beige or the predominant color of the jersey and the same color sleeves/ tights worn by teammates. All sleeves/tights and compression shorts shall be the same solid color and must be the same color as any headband or wristband worn."

The penalty for the uniform violations is removal of a participating player or refusing entry to an entering player (substitute). The players may return once they are in compliance with the rule.
Seems like I've seen players get away from this rule a lot more this year than in the past. Wasn't sure if something had changed.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

Zunardo

Well-known member
Thought this was an interesting situation.

A team with a deaf player hires a sign-language interpreter for games, and throughout the season the interpreter would walk beside the coach during game, so they can sign the coach's verbal commands to the deaf player.

At this particular game, there was a complaint and some initial discussion. One of the officials rules the interpreter could stand, but had to remain at the other end of the bench and sign from there. Apparently one of the assistant coaches in the game had already received a technical foul for not staying seated. Some folks from deaf-advocacy groups say this is discriminatory, and having a mobile interpreter should be a reasonable accommodation for the player.

Has anyone here had to deal with this, and what rules are in play? Thanks.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/parents-outraged-ref-told-interpreter-deaf-high-school-player-couldnt-stand-coach-152601303.html
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Seems like I've seen players get away from this rule a lot more this year than in the past. Wasn't sure if something had changed.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
You aren't seeing things.... too many officials are worried enforcement will cause an Coach or AD to either rate them low or not vote for them.

Makes it difficult for the ones who do enforce the rule.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Thought this was an interesting situation.

A team with a deaf player hires a sign-language interpreter for games, and throughout the season the interpreter would walk beside the coach during game, so they can sign the coach's verbal commands to the deaf player.

At this particular game, there was a complaint and some initial discussion. One of the officials rules the interpreter could stand, but had to remain at the other end of the bench and sign from there. Apparently one of the assistant coaches in the game had already received a technical foul for not staying seated. Some folks from deaf-advocacy groups say this is discriminatory, and having a mobile interpreter should be a reasonable accommodation for the player.

Has anyone here had to deal with this, and what rules are in play? Thanks.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/parents-outraged-ref-told-interpreter-deaf-high-school-player-couldnt-stand-coach-152601303.html
First, as in many of these situations the whole story hasn't been told.... (but that's another debate)

As far as the written rule...... There isn't any hard and fast rule that pertains to this, however, in 1998 the NFHS included this situation in their annual published Rule Interpretations. Rule Interpretations are valid until another Interpretation or specific Rule Change addresses it.... In 1998 the Official NFHS Interpretation read...

SITUATION 15: Team A has a player who is deaf. The coach requests that both a signer and head coach be allowed to occupy the optional coaching box in order to relay instructions to the affected player.

RULING: The school principal shall make a written request to the state high school association which shall include written verification from a physician confirming the condition. The state association, if it approves, will return a letter of approval and this letter shall be presented to the game officials prior to each contest.

If that's me on the game, I'm going to ask for the written documentation. If none can be presented, I'm going to allow the Interpreter to stay right next to the coach. After the game, I am sending a game report to both the State Association and the League outlining what happened so it's addressed up front for future contests.

Why this is an issue this late in the season is beyond me.
 

Vox Crusada

Active member
There are specific rules with regards to uniforms. Unfortunately, many officials don't "Like" the rule and refuse to enforce them. Couple that approach with the fact that the OHSAA won't take a stand one way or another on the issue and you have a hodge podge of enforcement.
Actually, the OHSAA is quite clear on this issue.
From OHSAA.org website, Uniform Regulations - Basketball, at the bottom of the page:
"Please refer to NFHS Basketball Rules 3-5, 3-6 and 3-7 for information on Player Equipment and additional apparel such as headbands, wristbands, undershirts and compression shorts."
The NFHS rules are to be enforced.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Actually, the OHSAA is quite clear on this issue.
From OHSAA.org website, Uniform Regulations - Basketball, at the bottom of the page:
"Please refer to NFHS Basketball Rules 3-5, 3-6 and 3-7 for information on Player Equipment and additional apparel such as headbands, wristbands, undershirts and compression shorts."
The NFHS rules are to be enforced.
What's in print and what is enforced or what officials are told (or will) to enforce (or ignore) are two very different things.
 

sig4969

Well-known member
Would you have call a flagrant foul against Virginia in the last 6 second of the game,.

The play was Texas Tech player going down the floor one Virginia player hit the ball away from Texas Tech player and the Virginia Player behind Texas Tech player grab Texas Tech player for one or two second ,

The play was review to see who the ball was last touch by before going out of play.....







In different sports , by not calling the foul I would give the ball to team being foul. I understand that is not by the book , but that is how the game is played.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Would you have call a flagrant foul against Virginia in the last 6 second of the game,.

The play was Texas Tech player going down the floor one Virginia player hit the ball away from Texas Tech player and the Virginia Player behind Texas Tech player grab Texas Tech player for one or two second ,

The play was review to see who the ball was last touch by before going out of play.....







In different sports , by not calling the foul I would give the ball to team being foul. I understand that is not by the book , but that is how the game is played.
No.

Nothing occurred in this play that met the definition of a Flagrant 1 personal foul.
 
Player A is dribbling when play B cuts off his path. Player A picks up his dribble while player be reached in for the ball. Player A begins moving(multiple steps) but player B has atleast a hand in to try to get the ball. Player A never lost possession, but B defiantly has some of the ball.

Is it traveling or a held ball?
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Player A is dribbling when play B cuts off his path. Player A picks up his dribble while player be reached in for the ball. Player A begins moving(multiple steps) but player B has atleast a hand in to try to get the ball. Player A never lost possession, but B defiantly has some of the ball.

Is it traveling or a held ball?
I'd need to see the play, but if two opponents have their hand(s) "so firmly on the ball that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness,” it's a held ball.

It would depend on whether the A player was moving his pivot foot before the B player got hand(s) on the ball.
 
I'd need to see the play, but if two opponents have their hand(s) "so firmly on the ball that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness,” it's a held ball.

It would depend on whether the A player was moving his pivot foot before the B player got hand(s) on the ball.
It happened so fast. A picked up his dribble, B reached in and grabbed the ball and A immediately started to run. It was something I've never seen and no body really new how to call the situation. They didn't wrestle at all for the ball, A just tried to run as soon as B got his hand in.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Does a player have to land with both feet at the same time on a jump stop?
Rule 4-44 - Traveling

ART. 2
Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows:

A player, who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop, and establish a pivot foot as follows:
a. If both feet are off the floor and the player lands:
1. Simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot.
2. On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch is the pivot.
3. On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.
b. If one foot is on the floor:
1. It is the pivot when the other foot touches in a step.
2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.
 

MiamiValleyFan

New member
Can someone explain the uniform rules for high school basketball. First game of season for 8th grade team. Several players had undershirts that did not match uniform color(I understand this rule). Ref mentions it to players right before tip-off but let's them play. He asks them to change at first break. First break is end of 1st quarter. Players take off undershirts at bench. Ref assesses 2 shot technical and awards other team the ball (possession arrow was not in their favor) for changing at the bench (never told kids to go to locker room). Is there a rule that states you cannot change at the bench and should possession been lost for a technical foul assessed between quarters? I get the ref could have handled this differently. I just want to know if he followed the actual rules.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Can someone explain the uniform rules for high school basketball. First game of season for 8th grade team. Several players had undershirts that did not match uniform color(I understand this rule). Ref mentions it to players right before tip-off but let's them play. He asks them to change at first break. First break is end of 1st quarter. Players take off undershirts at bench. Ref assesses 2 shot technical and awards other team the ball (possession arrow was not in their favor) for changing at the bench (never told kids to go to locker room). Is there a rule that states you cannot change at the bench and should possession been lost for a technical foul assessed between quarters? I get the ref could have handled this differently. I just want to know if he followed the actual rules.
Yes, he did follow the rules.

“Bench personnel, including the head coach, shall not:

ART. 1 . . . Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as:

h. Removing the jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area.”


(And yes, he should have used preventive officiating by instructing the coach to send the kids to the locker room with an assistant; it sounds like this didn't happen.)

The penalty for all technical fouls is two shots and a throw-in at the division line. The possession arrow is never affected and is superseded by the technical foul.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Are defensive players allowed to yell when lined up for a free throw during the shot?
Rule 9-1-3-d

After the ball is placed at the disposal of a free thrower, no opponent shall district the free thrower.

Whenever I have defenders that want to shout “I got shooter” right as the shooter prepares to shoot, one warning normally prevents that from being an issue again.
 

coltfan76

Active member
Rule 9-1-3-d

After the ball is placed at the disposal of a free thrower, no opponent shall district the free thrower.

Whenever I have defenders that want to shout “I got shooter” right as the shooter prepares to shoot, one warning normally prevents that from being an issue again.
Thanks. I had never seen a player do it before.
 
Question: Team A is shooting two free throws. After the first shot Team A gets the rebound, kicks it out to a teammate for a three and makes it.
Time runs off the clock.

Do we count the bucket even though the ref said we were shooting two or stop play reset the clock and shoot the next free throw?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Question: Team A is shooting two free throws. After the first shot Team A gets the rebound, kicks it out to a teammate for a three and makes it.
Time runs off the clock.

Do we count the bucket even though the ref said we were shooting two or stop play reset the clock and shoot the next free throw?
We need more information here....

Specifically, what action occurred after A missed the first shot?

- What did the officials do?
- What did the other A players do?
- What did the B players do?

The ruling could be very simple or it could be (to those who don't know Rule 2-10) "convoluted" or nonsensical.
 
Last edited:
We need more information here....

Specifically, what action occurred after A missed the first shot?

- What did the officials do?
- What did the other A players do?
- What did the B players do?

The ruling could be very simple or it could be (to those who don't know Rule 2-10) "convoluted" or nonsensical.
Officials called the 3 good. A Team players started down the court to transition into defense.
Most of B players were still on the line while one or two jumped out to contest the 3.

In the game the officials awarded team A the 3 points because time ran off the clock and said they couldn't take off points when time ran off the clock and then allowed Team A to shoot their 2nd free throw.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Officials called the 3 good. A Team players started down the court to transition into defense.
Most of B players were still on the line while one or two jumped out to contest the 3.

In the game the officials awarded team A the 3 points because time ran off the clock and said they couldn't take off points when time ran off the clock and then allowed Team A to shoot their 2nd free throw.
Ok... one more question....

How did the officials address the players on the free throw lane before the first free throw? Did they announce "two shots" or "one and one"?
 

MiamiValleyFan

New member
Had a situation I've never seen before. Refs whistle ball dead on a missed shooting foul. They can't decide who the foul is on so they instruct scorekeeper to assess a team foul but do not charge an individual player with a foul. Is this even remotely within the rules? Player was given 2 free throws for the shooting foul.
 

JU-ICE

Member
Loose ball results in a jump ball call.
Possession arrow points toward Team A. After the jump ball call and prior to the FT's being shot, a technical is assessed on player from Team B who was involved in the jump ball call for pushing the player from Team A.
Team A shoots two FT's and gets possession of the ball as a result of the technical foul call.

Question: Does the possession arrow change from Team A to Team B due to the jump ball call or does the technical foul call wipe-out the jump ball call?
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Had a situation I've never seen before. Refs whistle ball dead on a missed shooting foul. They can't decide who the foul is on so they instruct scorekeeper to assess a team foul but do not charge an individual player with a foul. Is this even remotely within the rules? Player was given 2 free throws for the shooting foul.
Nope.

Did they lose the number or did they have a disagreement about which player should have been charged with the foul? Regardless, assessing a team foul with no corresponding personal foul is not remotely correct.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Loose ball results in a jump ball call.
Possession arrow points toward Team A. After the jump ball call and prior to the FT's being shot, a technical is assessed on player from Team B who was involved in the jump ball call for pushing the player from Team A.
Team A shoots two FT's and gets possession of the ball as a result of the technical foul call.

Question: Does the possession arrow change from Team A to Team B due to the jump ball call or does the technical foul call wipe-out the jump ball call?
The penalty for a single technical foul includes possession to the offended team (it is not a "point of interruption" situation), so it "supersedes" the held ball.

The arrow remains unchanged and it's as though the held ball never happened.
 
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